Pixel vendor confustion

[JohnByrne]

Hope it's ok to ask here so as to target Pixel users.

I'm almost ready to make my first Pixel purchase. I suspect if I get them from one of the vendors that are often discussed that I'd be safe (i.e. Wally's, WiredWatts, Ray, etc) but there's other vendors out there who seem legit and have good prices. How do I know where NOT to buy short of Amazon JST only Pixels.

For example, had anyone bought from any of these guys?
1. BlinkyPixels.com - I've communicated with them and he seems to know his stuff, says he burns them in 24 hours and has decent prices
2. Yourpixelstore.com - know nothing really about them but they have a sale right now .. 1600 (100 x 16) for $389.99 delivered
3. ???


Any thought or suggestions would be greatly appreciated


PS, is there a time which these guys typically run sales?

[TomL8345]

John,

I have bought pixels from Wired Watts, Ray, and DIYLEDExpress. The main complaint I have heard from folks who buy elsewhere is that the AWG for the wire is extremely thin and that they have issues with the weatherproofing. Most vendors say their wire is "X" AWG, but it is typically at least a size smaller. Keep in mind pixels are a long-term investment and like most things you get what you pay for. I'm not saying anything bad about the other vendors, but Caveat Emptor...Buyer Be Ware.

[mr fix]

John,

I have bought pixels from Wired Watts, Ray, and DIYLEDExpress. The main complaint I have heard from folks who buy elsewhere is that the AWG for the wire is extremely thin and that they have issues with the weatherproofing. Most vendors say their wire is "X" AWG, but it is typically at least a size smaller. Keep in mind pixels are a long-term investment and like most things you get what you pay for. I'm not saying anything bad about the other vendors, but Caveat Emptor...Buyer Be Ware.

Totally agree I am one that has purchased from different places and the wire gauge is a big problem the very good price ones the wires are around 22 awg and some even look like 23 awg possibly 24 awg
And that is thin for lone runs you will need to do a lot of power injection especially with 5v ws2811
The 12v every 100 - 150 nodes and 5v every 50 nodes to get the right color at the end of the string this is withe cheep stuff
No mistake they work but the quality is not as good the epoxy usually has a lot of excessive epoxy slag you will need to clean the nodes on some before you use them on a prop if you making a mega tree not a problem or hanging them but in a 1m hole clean up work.
Look for ones that say 18 awg those are nice wiring and reliability is better

And FYI the Low cost ones don't have waterproof connections they are a very pore none waterproof connection on them and will not last outside.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

[mr fix]

$129 for 500 18awg not a bad deal and these have the xConnect Connectors already.
Or look for the ones with ray wu Connectors

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

[algerdes]

Remember: Saying they are 18 AWG and being 18 AWG may not be the same. Some do, some don't. Know your supplier.

[rayhjr]

Nobody wants to make a BAD decision when buying Pixels. Problem is Most of us have.
As mentioned, small wire size, bad epoxy and wrong connectors are most likely with one off sellers.
I made a poor choice 7 years ago with a seller that was way cheaper than others. It was obvious from the beginning the wire size was 22awg at best BUT
I still use them today in my Mega Tree. I have to power at every leg of 94 just to keep the wire from heating up (12v by the way).
Me and a buddy went in on 7000 last year from Paul Zhang (3000 for me) about .20 cents a pixel. They are good but I had about 8 go bad on me during
my Christmas show a few months ago.
I would stick with known Vendors who have a proven track record and a reputation to uphold.
This time of year is known for persales but they seem to be less predictable these days.

[JohnByrne]

I agree with all said but can anyone comment on vendors other than the 2 or 3. For example, the two listed above (Blinky Pixels and your pixel store). Who else sells good pixels and gives good service. I can't believe this is all there is. Heck, I bet most of the pixels are made in the same couple of factories in China. There must be more good vendors to consider. More vendors mean more chances to catch a good sale. Anyone?

[digitydogs]

My advice when buying pixels... Buy in advance direct from a manufacturer and HAGGLE!!!!

I see people paying absolutely INSANE prices for these pixel strings, going by that $129 for 500 "deal" you are paying more than .25 a pixel shipped. You can easily get down to .15-.20 a pixel, even cheaper if your ordering a large amount of leds (10k+)

[rayhjr]

Most if not all stateside sellers are resellers for either Ray Wu or Paul Zhang. Just buy from them if you want the best price.
In the .20 cent a pixel range as previously stated. Even then you are looking at 5 to 10k pixels for that price.

PixPlus is another supplier that is not China Based (Africa I think). No experience with them.

[gingrbredman]

I do not claim to be a "pixel expert", you will need to go to the FB Xlights forum to find them, and if you ask a question, oh boy do they know it all. But if you take your time to get through the weeds of all the BS you will hear all the "experts" throw out there and find out as much as you like about the different ways to get pixels, here is some of what I have learned. This is my take only but has helped me navigate through this buying decision.

There seems to be three major ones that sell direct to US customers. @rayhrj mentioned Ray and Paul, and then there is Daniel Zhang. There are a lot more re-sellers, or manufacturers out there, but those seem to be the top three talked about. I have spoken with Ray Wu several times, and he has told me he is the manufacturer of pixels, not sure about Paul or Daniel exactly, they may also be producers, or could be distributors, but the point is these three seem to be the most talked about when it comes to direct buys from China.

All three of these seem to work very easily with US customers. Ray for example, was very easy to send him a list of the products he shows on his website, and then he sends back an invoice with all fees and shipping. I have not had to haggle with him at all, the prices he sends me, and the shipping, has always been lower than his site. My guess is by not going through AliExpress or Alibaba he also avoids those charges so he can pass the savings along. In my experience, Ray has always been great to work with, and the pixels I get have all been great. I recently picked up some GS8208 pixels, and a small order of 5V (I know, not the majority, but a few small projects needed to be unique), and with anything not your standard WS2811, Ray is great about combining orders and helping me save on shipping. I have heard the same experience from others about the two Zhangs, so if you are looking for a cost advantage, going direct to one of these three is an option. I have had good experiences with Ray so I can speak to that, and would not hesitate to do business with him again. I think on average I was getting pixels for about $0.19 delivered.

For domestic sourcing of pixels, I agree with a lot of the advice above particularly?. ?I would stick with known Vendors who have a proven track record and a reputation to uphold?. All of the US sellers of pixels are getting their supply from China, most likely from one of the three mentioned above. Yes, they are selling them for $0.26/pixel delivered, of course they have to make a profit as well to stay in business, but what you would expect from the higher price, than say going direct, is the quick, after sales service. If you have issues with China direct pixels, it may be difficult for a quick resolution, and that could be problematic during mid-show season. A lot of people I have spoken to, and a lot of what I read, is some people are willing to spend the extra money on the pixels for the knowledge that the business will be there if they need them, and they did all the research to find the best quality pixel for the price.

Speaking of needing them there when you need them, these are the vendors that I have talked to others about and read about that seems to offer a good pixel (for a higher price), has little failures, and offers quick support.
Wally?s (seems to be right there at the top of the conversations) & YourPixelStore. Both of these vendors will tell you their pixels are unique (compared to the mass, buy direct) because they are able to work with the manufacturers on ?upgraded? specifications to the pixels and they also keep an eye on quality control. Say what you want about their claims, but they seem to be right up there as the top US sellers, so with those volumes, they may be able to pull it off, and you rarely hear about pixel failures from these two.

Then you have others, who have been around a while, and while pixels are not their primary business, they likely get their pixels from the three mentioned. WiredWatts, Mattos, Gilbert Engineering. (I am probably missing a few, but just to give more options I wanted to list at least a few)

When I see the statement as posted earlier? More vendors mean more chances to catch a good sale, I am not sure. The three China direct suppliers all seem to be withing the same price range. The other 5 US sellers I mentioned are right about the same price as well. Even in the big ?pre-sales? they were within $0.01 per pixel of each other. Where you can really find lower prices on US companies is the new guys that open up shop, trying to get in the business, just like the top guys did at some point. The only thing is, as @TomL8345 said it, Caveat Emptor...Buyer Be Ware. Over the last several years, several pixel suppliers have come and gone, and taken some money with them. LOM in particular is one that comes to mind. But there are protections in place for buying online so if you want to give one of the new guys a chance, knowing they are also getting the pixels from the same places as everyone else, and save a few bucks, it might be worth it. One of the known suppliers in years past was RGBMan, and I had good luck there, those pixels are still running strong. But I have read a few stories that I am not sure about, and his website still shows "2022 sale" information, so that is one thing to think about when you look for your preferred supplier. So we have a few bigger US sellers, a lot of smaller ones, so there are options, and there are different price points, depending on what you is your priority. Cost, service, reliability, after sales, etc.

Sorry, more of a long winded response to a simple question, where do I buy pixels from lol!