Where to Buy TR24 Kit

**munu** · 02-06-2021, 07:22 PM

I am just starting out with Renard and decided to get a TR24. I prefer to buy a kit rather than having to buy all the individual parts. Wayne doesn't sell them. Somebody suggested RadiantHolidays but people also were not able to order from or contact them. Are there any other options to buy kits?

**Wayne J** · 02-06-2021, 08:05 PM

Can I ask what has persuaded you to choose a TR24 over the SS24?

**munu** · 02-07-2021, 01:18 PM

@Wayne J Mostly the chart at http://www.renard-plus.com/

Some points are

* The newer design fits into enclosure CG-1500 with the standoffs at the right place.
* I believe that people who are new to this hobby will be leaning towards the newer design and so over time I expect a heavier tendency toward the TR24.
* A 32 MHz vs a 18 MHz PIC processor gives more headroom for future improvements.
* Support for the SS versions is pretty strong on this forum. However, I was told support for the TR is pretty strong on other forums.
* The MSRP for the board is cheaper (only by $8, though) and requires fewer components (not that the crystal is expensive).

Some of these reasons might not be that important but except for the fact that I could buy a kit from you I really don’t see any advantage the SS24 has over the TR24.

**Wayne J** · 02-07-2021, 02:05 PM

That chart is not entirely accurate. I commented on your points below. Not trying to change your mind, just pointing out some facts that seem to not be seen.

Originally Posted by munu

@Wayne J Mostly the chart at http://www.renard-plus.com/

Some points are

* The newer design fits into enclosure CG-1500 with the standoffs at the right place.
-> SS24 fits the CG2000 with the two intended holes to mount the board
* I believe that people who are new to this hobby will be leaning towards the newer design and so over time I expect a heavier tendency toward the TR24.
-> SS24 is still on V1.0, design was proven solid from the beginning.
* A 32 MHz vs a 18 MHz PIC processor gives more headroom for future improvements.
-> Not much more can be done with the Renard protocol.
* Support for the SS versions is pretty strong on this forum. However, I was told support for the TR is pretty strong on other forums.
-> told? There are literally thousands of SS controllers in use, they have been in use since 2009
* The MSRP for the board is cheaper (only by $8, though) and requires fewer components (not that the crystal is expensive).
->

Some of these reasons might not be that important but except for the fact that I could buy a kit from you I really don’t see any advantage the SS24 has over the TR24.

**dirknerkle** · 02-07-2021, 02:50 PM

I laughed when I read Wayne's comment that "not much more can be done with the Renard protocol." One thing to know is that the Renard protocol is incredibly lean and has precious little overhead. This allows it to run at up to 460K baud, and some have been successful at 920K! For a channel-based controller design, you won't find that kind of flexibility elsewhere. More speed means more data and more channels -- without having to go to WiFi or muck around with routers, hubs and switches.

Remember, a light can only have two states: it's either on or it's off. That's it. That's all any controller really does. It gives you a way to turn lights on and off remotely, at will, multiple times per second while you link the switching to an audio track using software and a computer. A lighting protocol doesn't really need to do anything else, now or in the future, does it?

Personally, I prefer controllers that have multiple PICS because they provide more flexibility. At least IMO. With 3 PICS on the board, an SS24 can be set to three different ranges of 8 channels each using different start address settings, so it isn't limited to 24 contiguous channels. It takes a while to understand what a benefit that is, but it can be extremely helpful in doing some very creative things in a show.

**P. Short** · 02-07-2021, 03:08 PM

Not to get too far into the "mine is bigger than yours" discussions, but I'd like to point out that the the 18.432 MHz clock rate of each of the PICs on the SS designs is spread out over 8 channels, while the 32 Mhz clock rate of the TR24 is spread out over 24 channels. So there is a lot more headroom on the SS design than the TR24. And bear in mind that there is also the option of changing the oscillator on the SS boards to 32 MHz and the PICs to 32-Mhz parts (the PIC16F1825), gaining even more headroom.

So, in the end, the supposed advantage of 32Mhz over 18.432 MHz is actually a disadvantage, not an advantage.

**Wayne J** · 02-07-2021, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by dirknerkle

I laughed when I read Wayne's comment that "not much more can be done with the Renard protocol." One thing to know is that the Renard protocol is incredibly lean and has precious little overhead. This allows it to run at up to 460K baud, and some have been successful at 920K! For a channel-based controller design, you won't find that kind of flexibility elsewhere. More speed means more data and more channels -- without having to go to WiFi or muck around with routers, hubs and switches.

Remember, a light can only have two states: it's either on or it's off. That's it. That's all any controller really does. It gives you a way to turn lights on and off remotely, at will, multiple times per second while you link the switching to an audio track using software and a computer. A lighting protocol doesn't really need to do anything else, now or in the future, does it?

Personally, I prefer controllers that have multiple PICS because they provide more flexibility. At least IMO. With 3 PICS on the board, an SS24 can be set to three different ranges of 8 channels each using different start address settings, so it isn't limited to 24 contiguous channels. It takes a while to understand what a benefit that is, but it can be extremely helpful in doing some very creative things in a show.

Not sure if you laughed at me or kinda with me, My statement was meant as, over the years, we have pretty much worked it to death. LOL We know it's capabilities and limitations.

**dirknerkle** · 02-07-2021, 04:14 PM

HAH! It surely wasn't AT you, Wayne! It just struck me funny because there really ISN'T much you can do with such a lean protocol!

It just flat works!!!

**munu** · 02-07-2021, 06:00 PM

If the TR24 isn't any better than the SS24 and apparently even has disadvantages (regarding clock speed and having only one pic) then why did Renard create this board?

**Wayne J** · 02-07-2021, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by munu

If the TR24 isn't any better than the SS24 and apparently even has disadvantages (regarding clock speed and having only one pic) then why did Renard create this board?

I think you may be thinking there is a company of Renard. No, that is just the name that designer chose to sell their controllers. "Renard" is the protocol/firmware the controllers use.