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Thread: Criminal icsp connector

  1. #1
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    Default Criminal icsp connector

    Hello, following schematics on wiki i made the adapter board, and without thinking too much connected the icsp to the usb adapter to flash the firmware.
    I was really lucky, because I only blow up the esp module.
    Maybe a better (and simpler) design for icsp it's necessary, but can understand you want to use your own 12V programmer.
    Can you at least add a warning, something like WARNING 12V ?
    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Criminal icsp connector

    I searched the Wiki for this Criminal icsp connector and it comes up empty .
    You may need to add clarity here as to what you are referring .

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Criminal icsp connector

    Criminal it's the way in circuit serial programming it's implemented in ESPixel boards.
    Wiki page: https://www.doityourselfchristmas.co...6_ESPixel_Pops
    Schematics: https://www.doityourselfchristmas.co...sSchematic.pdf
    JP1 (ICSP) have Vcc connected directly to Vin. If you connect a ftdi or a common adapter it will not be able to program the esp8266, if you connect the 12V, ftdi's Vcc will be connected to +12V and will burn esp8266 maybe ftdi and if not lucky your pc.
    Maybe something like WARNING USE ONLY "Pops-O-Matic" PROGRAMMER, or a 12V tolerant one shuld be added.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Criminal icsp connector

    Still don't see the reference to, nor the meaning behind "Criminal" in your title. Sorry.
    Live, Laugh, Love.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Criminal icsp connector

    Quote Originally Posted by DarioB View Post
    Criminal it's the way in circuit serial programming it's implemented in ESPixel boards.
    Wiki page: https://www.doityourselfchristmas.co...6_ESPixel_Pops
    Schematics: https://www.doityourselfchristmas.co...sSchematic.pdf
    JP1 (ICSP) have Vcc connected directly to Vin. If you connect a ftdi or a common adapter it will not be able to program the esp8266, if you connect the 12V, ftdi's Vcc will be connected to +12V and will burn esp8266 maybe ftdi and if not lucky your pc.
    Maybe something like WARNING USE ONLY "Pops-O-Matic" PROGRAMMER, or a 12V tolerant one shuld be added.
    Well most people will not connect power to the Pixel Pops when programing the ESP, they allow the ftdi to provide the power (USB from PC) to the ESP for programing. Also these can be powered w/ 12v OR 5V, depending on the pixels you are connecting, so if you had them powered at 5V your issue would be moot
    Matt

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Criminal icsp connector

    That's not correct, esp8266 it's not officially 5V tolerant, so it's usually programmed at 3.3V, below 4.75V minimum Vin required by LD1117V33. And should be safe tu use it with 12V (it's designed to use 12V too).
    But why all this it's needed? why not connect icsp to 3.3V rail? with a ftdi I can read debug messages too, could be useful

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Criminal icsp connector

    Quote Originally Posted by DarioB View Post
    ...and without thinking too much...
    This is DIY hardware. You have to pay attention to what you’re doing. You’re not the first person to release magical smoke from a component because you weren’t paying attention, and you won’t be the last. In the thousands of boards that people have built, this is the first time that I’ve ever heard of the issue you cite.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarioB
    Maybe a better (and simpler) design for icsp it's necessary, but can understand you want to use your own 12V programmer.
    So design it and build it if you think you have a better mousetrap. The community responds quite well to improvements; not so much to someone whining about a design being “criminal” because through his own lack of situational awareness he fried a board.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarioB
    Can you at least add a warning, something like WARNING 12V ?
    See the first response. Where should this warning be placed? The tiny board that barely fits the silk screen? The schematic already identifies the 3.3v lines. The wiki expressly states there is no warranty and you use it at your own risk, and if you are using a 12v supply, you should know already (since you can read a schematic) what is 3.3v on the board and what isn’t. Those of us who use 12v (or higher) have all fried components and through that experience have gained the presence of mind to double check stuff.

    If you want something that’s idiot-proof, drop the larger dollars on a pre-built controller that is programmed over Ethernet.
    Last edited by Kensington; 03-01-2020 at 09:09 AM.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Criminal icsp connector

    It's a so followed project I didn't noticed the programming header connected to +12V. Ok, it's a DIY, but it's a correctly assembled board, and in 10 years I never find a 12V Vcc header on a 3.3V rx/tx system.
    I am able to modify it (I used schematics to produce pcbs), but it's not only for me (I will program controllers and place on the board).
    I cannot understand why Vcc header it's connected to Vin and not on 3.3V. If you connect it to 3.3V, and remove the 1N4148, you can program the esp with a generic 3.3V ftdi board.
    So will have a idiot-proof device saving a part on bom and a special programmer (other parts, another pcb design to make).
    And programming the controller while connected to 5V could damege the controller and the ftdi (with the current design).
    About the warning, I am not talking on the silk screen, I am talking on the wiki. A red bold warning in the programming section, or at page top.
    You could easily damge your pc programming the controller in the way it's usually made.
    Last edited by DarioB; 03-01-2020 at 07:04 PM.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Criminal icsp connector

    Quote Originally Posted by DarioB View Post
    It's a so followed project I didn't noticed the programming header connected to +12V. Ok, it's a DIY, but it's a correctly assembled board, and in 10 years I never find a 12V Vcc header on a 3.3V rx/tx system.
    I am able to modify it (I used schematics to produce pcbs), but it's not only for me (I will program controllers and place on the board).
    I cannot understand why Vcc header it's connected to Vin and not on 3.3V. If you connect it to 3.3V, and remove the 1N4148, you can program the esp with a generic 3.3V ftdi board.
    So will have a idiot-proof device saving a part on bom and a special programmer (other parts, another pcb design to make).
    And programming the controller while connected to 5V could damege the controller and the ftdi (with the current design).
    About the warning, I am not talking on the silk screen, I am talking on the wiki. A red bold warning in the programming section, or at page top.
    You could easily damge your pc programming the controller in the way it's usually made.
    What you really want to look at is the schematic for the WeMos pro board.


    2020 Full sized show reworked for the new location. Only adding (famous last words) 13 RBLs that I finally got converted to using pixels
    2019 - Just moved into a new home (yet another change of plans). Will be dim but not dark. Too much to do at the new place to leave time for a show. Dim show (3000 pixels) had regular visits most nights.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyX...ttrsZNARkUce0Q

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Criminal icsp connector

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinMueller2003 View Post
    What you really want to look at is the schematic for the WeMos pro board.
    I searched on the forum but cannt find schematics, could please link them? (thanks)
    However with few changes boards can work good, and if you need more than few, a module costs far less. I payed 1.14€/esp module, a wemos costs x2/x3 times...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kensington View Post
    Those of us who use 12v (or higher) have all fried components and through that experience have gained the presence of mind to double check stuff.
    If I'm not wrong (I have to check it) when esp8266 set a logic 0 on gpio2, you have 45mA on it, maybe too much big for the esp8266

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