Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 19 of 19

Thread: Power Injection Question

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Nelson (New Zealand)
    Posts
    401
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Power Injection Question

    Thanks Guy's that info is very helpfull and more or less what I had in mind. My Pixels are ex Aliexpress WS2811's, 5 v, and are only spaced about 3" apart with roughly 4 " length of wire involved between each Pixel, as to the actual gauge, that is anybody's guess, it looks like about 0.5mm cross section cable, maybe less, that has 15 strands of 0.09mm diameter tinned copper wire inside the jacket. When testing they appear to be fine when powered from one end, although I will be adding an extra 25 Pixels to each strand to make up the required length, so that will be interesting :-) Maybe I could diode switch/split the injection at the far end which would get around the direct short on the positive line between injection points/sources, the diode drop could become significant though with a 5 Volt supply!!

    Terry
    [B]"Tory Street Lights", Nelson, NZ[/B]
    [B]2013 - "Honourable Mention"[/B] - 2013 Local Christmas Lighting Competition
    [B]2013 :-[/B] 11 x Ren 64XC's - 650 Channels, 45,000+ lights. 7,000 or so LED's this year:-)
    ----------------------------------------------
    [B]"Lucky Home" [/B]- 2012 Local Christmas Lighting Competition
    [B]2012 :-[/B] 11 x Ren 64XC's - 550 Channels, 40,000+ lights. 2,500 or so LED's for the first time :-)
    -----------------------------------------------
    [B]2011:-[/B] 7 x Ren 64XC's - 384 Channels, 30,000+ lights - all incandescents! 2 x Commercial LED Panels (72x7)!
    ------------------------------------------------
    [B]"Supreme Winner for 2010" [/B]Local Christmas Lighting Competition, 4 x Ren 64's - 256 Channels Controlled by Vixen - "Brilliant" :-)
    18,000 to 20,000 Lights - all incandescents! 2 x LedTricks Panels with "Pix C" interface's
    [B]2009:- [/B]128 Channels of "Hill 320", 4,000 Lights

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Folsom, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,403
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Power Injection Question

    Would it help to think power injection at the 25 mark ahead of the 50 pixels. May need to size fuse better, but I think 5 is good.
    See Sketch. Just feeding thoughts.
    Fusing25.JPG
    In Lights Therapy...

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Nelson (New Zealand)
    Posts
    401
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Power Injection Question

    Quote Originally Posted by mrGrumpy View Post
    Would it help to think power injection at the 25 mark ahead of the 50 pixels. May need to size fuse better, but I think 5 is good.
    See Sketch. Just feeding thoughts.]
    Of course, that's the way to go - stupid Idgit me, brain wasn't working well when I posted earlier :-(

    Thanks heaps :-)
    [B]"Tory Street Lights", Nelson, NZ[/B]
    [B]2013 - "Honourable Mention"[/B] - 2013 Local Christmas Lighting Competition
    [B]2013 :-[/B] 11 x Ren 64XC's - 650 Channels, 45,000+ lights. 7,000 or so LED's this year:-)
    ----------------------------------------------
    [B]"Lucky Home" [/B]- 2012 Local Christmas Lighting Competition
    [B]2012 :-[/B] 11 x Ren 64XC's - 550 Channels, 40,000+ lights. 2,500 or so LED's for the first time :-)
    -----------------------------------------------
    [B]2011:-[/B] 7 x Ren 64XC's - 384 Channels, 30,000+ lights - all incandescents! 2 x Commercial LED Panels (72x7)!
    ------------------------------------------------
    [B]"Supreme Winner for 2010" [/B]Local Christmas Lighting Competition, 4 x Ren 64's - 256 Channels Controlled by Vixen - "Brilliant" :-)
    18,000 to 20,000 Lights - all incandescents! 2 x LedTricks Panels with "Pix C" interface's
    [B]2009:- [/B]128 Channels of "Hill 320", 4,000 Lights

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Nelson (New Zealand)
    Posts
    401
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Power Injection Question

    Quote Originally Posted by mrGrumpy View Post
    Would it help to think power injection at the 25 mark ahead of the 50 pixels. May need to size fuse better, but I think 5 is good.
    See Sketch. Just feeding thoughts.
    Fusing25.JPG
    I've been doing some bench tests tonight and using the setup suggested by mrGrumpy, at full load I am seeing close to 0.5 volts drop at the injection point purely from the resistance in the feeder wire from the power-supply, ie 0.25 v drop in each leg of the +ve and - ve legs. Planned are two pairs of 18 g wire runs involved to each injection point around 4 yrds long.

    As I am using, 5V WS2811's, is this voltage drop acceptable ?? The plan is to have 20 or 21 strings of 75 Pixels each involved in my new Mega tree with each string having a home run for power to the injection point, and data in from a ESPixel stick.

    Any observation are welcome from those more knowledgable that I, as I would like to get the installation right to start with :-(

    Terry
    [B]"Tory Street Lights", Nelson, NZ[/B]
    [B]2013 - "Honourable Mention"[/B] - 2013 Local Christmas Lighting Competition
    [B]2013 :-[/B] 11 x Ren 64XC's - 650 Channels, 45,000+ lights. 7,000 or so LED's this year:-)
    ----------------------------------------------
    [B]"Lucky Home" [/B]- 2012 Local Christmas Lighting Competition
    [B]2012 :-[/B] 11 x Ren 64XC's - 550 Channels, 40,000+ lights. 2,500 or so LED's for the first time :-)
    -----------------------------------------------
    [B]2011:-[/B] 7 x Ren 64XC's - 384 Channels, 30,000+ lights - all incandescents! 2 x Commercial LED Panels (72x7)!
    ------------------------------------------------
    [B]"Supreme Winner for 2010" [/B]Local Christmas Lighting Competition, 4 x Ren 64's - 256 Channels Controlled by Vixen - "Brilliant" :-)
    18,000 to 20,000 Lights - all incandescents! 2 x LedTricks Panels with "Pix C" interface's
    [B]2009:- [/B]128 Channels of "Hill 320", 4,000 Lights

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    West Bloomfield, MI
    Posts
    399
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Power Injection Question

    Quote Originally Posted by T.D.Sutton View Post
    I've been doing some bench tests tonight and using the setup suggested by mrGrumpy, at full load I am seeing close to 0.5 volts drop at the injection point purely from the resistance in the feeder wire from the power-supply, ie 0.25 v drop in each leg of the +ve and - ve legs. Planned are two pairs of 18 g wire runs involved to each injection point around 4 yrds long.

    As I am using, 5V WS2811's, is this voltage drop acceptable ?? The plan is to have 20 or 21 strings of 75 Pixels each involved in my new Mega tree with each string having a home run for power to the injection point, and data in from a ESPixel stick.

    Any observation are welcome from those more knowledgable that I, as I would like to get the installation right to start with :-(

    Terry
    The 0.5 volt voltage drop you are seeing is about right for 18 gage feed wire over a 4 meter distance. You should be able to run 50-5 volt pixels without issues. You can reduce your drop by using 14 gage feed wire. It calculates out to about 0.167 volt drop. I have found that reducing the intensity can help if you are trying to get more pixels without power injection. Even at 50% they are plenty bright. Best way to check is to hook up a 75 pixel string and compare first and last pixel on full white. Continue to decrease intensity until the first and last pixel have the same color white. At full intensity white, you'll probably have a pink tinge to the last pixels. Not sure what wire gage your strings are but if smaller than 18 gage, 50 pixels may be your max without power injection.

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
    Ed
    Happily retired

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Nelson (New Zealand)
    Posts
    401
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Power Injection Question

    Quote Originally Posted by ezellner View Post
    The 0.5 volt voltage drop you are seeing is about right for 18 gage feed wire over a 4 meter distance. You should be able to run 50-5 volt pixels without issues. You can reduce your drop by using 14 gage feed wire. It calculates out to about 0.167 volt drop. I have found that reducing the intensity can help if you are trying to get more pixels without power injection. Even at 50% they are plenty bright. Best way to check is to hook up a 75 pixel string and compare first and last pixel on full white. Continue to decrease intensity until the first and last pixel have the same color white. At full intensity white, you'll probably have a pink tinge to the last pixels. Not sure what wire gage your strings are but if smaller than 18 gage, 50 pixels may be your max without power injection.

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
    Hi ezellner,

    Thanks for your comments, nice to get confirmation on my measurements, I will continue with construction based on injecting at the 25 Pixel point from the bottom of each strip with another 50 Pixels above the injection point, and see what it looks like, if need be I could do as you suggest, and reduce the overall brightness to cut the current down.

    Since I am controlling the setup with ESPixelstiks I plan to power the controller from the bottom of the first strip (+ - and Data) so it is a standalone unit powered from the one point. I will connect only Data and Earth to the next strip (Down, then next Up), Zig Zag fashion for three 75 Pixel strips on the one controller, each strip being individually powered at the same point (25 Pixels up).

    I trust that this all make sense, it is new territory for me :-(

    Terry
    [B]"Tory Street Lights", Nelson, NZ[/B]
    [B]2013 - "Honourable Mention"[/B] - 2013 Local Christmas Lighting Competition
    [B]2013 :-[/B] 11 x Ren 64XC's - 650 Channels, 45,000+ lights. 7,000 or so LED's this year:-)
    ----------------------------------------------
    [B]"Lucky Home" [/B]- 2012 Local Christmas Lighting Competition
    [B]2012 :-[/B] 11 x Ren 64XC's - 550 Channels, 40,000+ lights. 2,500 or so LED's for the first time :-)
    -----------------------------------------------
    [B]2011:-[/B] 7 x Ren 64XC's - 384 Channels, 30,000+ lights - all incandescents! 2 x Commercial LED Panels (72x7)!
    ------------------------------------------------
    [B]"Supreme Winner for 2010" [/B]Local Christmas Lighting Competition, 4 x Ren 64's - 256 Channels Controlled by Vixen - "Brilliant" :-)
    18,000 to 20,000 Lights - all incandescents! 2 x LedTricks Panels with "Pix C" interface's
    [B]2009:- [/B]128 Channels of "Hill 320", 4,000 Lights

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Lizella, GA
    Posts
    911
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Power Injection Question

    If you are going to Power Inject between pixels 25-26 in the string, why not take it to 37-38, so you have the about same number of Pixels on either side of the injection point? I know that would increase the length of the injection run by about another yard, but you could go w/ 16 gage to compensate for the extra voltage drop.
    Matt

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Nelson (New Zealand)
    Posts
    401
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Power Injection Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruppro View Post
    If you are going to Power Inject between pixels 25-26 in the string, why not take it to 37-38, so you have the about same number of Pixels on either side of the injection point? I know that would increase the length of the injection run by about another yard, but you could go w/ 16 gage to compensate for the extra voltage drop.
    Good thinking, thanks for the suggestion. The availability of 16 Gauge wire is a problem to me, hence the use of the 18 gauge which I appear to have plenty of :-) also, injecting between 25 & 26 is simple because the external powering tails are already present due to being the start of the 50 Pixel string. I guess time will tell if I get away with it :-(

    Terry

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Lizella, GA
    Posts
    911
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Power Injection Question

    No reason for you not to be able to handle the power injection like that, and had I thought about it more, it does make sense as there is already going to be a break after 25.

    Sent from my SM-J320V using Tapatalk
    Matt

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •