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Thread: 5V v/s 12V

  1. #101
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    Default Re: 5V v/s 12V

    Corrosion x gun oil on all connectors and ge silicon II to seal up joints. No water issues.

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  2. #102
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    Default Re: 5V v/s 12V

    I've been using this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Can't find 'neutral' on it anywhere though. Same kind of stuff you were talking about?
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  3. #103
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    Default Re: 5V v/s 12V

    Neutral cure silicone has a slight advantage in gripping - so a slightly improve water seal.......however it does not have UV protected properties. Plus, it takes oh, so long to cure.

    I think Home Depot or Lowe's version of GE Doors & Window Silicone has UV protection, and sufficient weatherproofing, therefore a better fit for our outdoor use. Plus, it local pick-up, and a resealable squeeze tube.
    .
    http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-Silico...-100179996-_-N

    NAHB GREEN APPROVED
    Silicone II* Window & Door has received the NAHB Research Center National Green Building Certification. It is the first, and currently the only, caulk to attain the certification.
    Last edited by mrGrumpy; 02-17-2017 at 12:35 PM.
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  4. #104
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    Default Re: 5V v/s 12V

    I worked with a contractor installing doors and windows we used OSI
    http://www.homedepot.com/p/OSI-10-fl...9420/206284062
    OSI is the only clear I use for sealing Christmas LEDs

  5. #105
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    Default Re: 5V v/s 12V

    Quote Originally Posted by madsci1016 View Post
    I've been using this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Can't find 'neutral' on it anywhere though. Same kind of stuff you were talking about?

    Well, it does say that it is safe for aquariums so possibly but I have not used it or looked at it.
    How does is smell out of the tube? If very strong odor then it may have some acetate content but I doubt it since it says safe although some aquarium sealants do have warnings about using them only on the exterior of the aquarium and not inside with the fish.

    I may have to pick up a tube and see what it has in it and try some for testing myself.
    Last edited by beeiilll; 02-17-2017 at 07:32 AM.

  6. #106
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    Default Re: 5V v/s 12V

    Quote Originally Posted by stallionent View Post
    I worked with a contractor installing doors and windows we used OSI
    http://www.homedepot.com/p/OSI-10-fl...9420/206284062
    OSI is the only clear I use for sealing Christmas LEDs
    You may or may not find corrosion problems with it later on as it does contain Xylenes, Ethylbenzene, Naphthalene, and Benzene solvent so it is a fairly "caustic" type of caulk.
    I use the OSI caulk myself to install windows and doors on the homes I build. It is great stuff for that purpose but I do see corrosion effects with using it on electrical connections in my testing. I did however use it to seal up 7000 LEDs that I had that the covers kept falling off of and it has worked great on that so far!
    So for non electrical applications I would not be afraid to use it at all but would steer away from using it for insulating electrical connections myself.

  7. #107
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    Default Re: 5V v/s 12V

    Quote Originally Posted by mrGrumpy View Post
    Neutral cure silicone has a slight advantage in gripping - so a slightly improve water seal.......however it does not have UV protected properties. Plus, it takes oh, so long to cure.

    I think Home Depot or Lowe's version of GE Doors & Window Silicone has UV protection, and sufficient weatherproofing, therefore a better fit for our outdoor use. Plus, it local pick-up, and a resealable squeeze tube.
    .

    While the Door & Window stuff does setup quicker, something to remember is that it does so because of solvents mixed in to do just that! Usually, these solvents are the biggest cause of corrosion on electrical connections. While it is good for sealing silicone tubing repairs of sleeves, it will over time eat away at electrical connections due to the galvanic electrical reactions that occur between them.

    It is the action of the solvents that makes most caulks "stick" to different materials by actually eating into the material to make a bond with it. So in a very general term, if it sticks really well, then it is "probably" not really safe for electrical connection stuff. That is one of the cavorts of being able to seal electrical connections and a problem with them. Less so for this low voltage stuff but wait till you have a flickering or dim problem in a string or strip and can't seem to find it till you finally tear into things and find that your connections have corrosion on them that is causing either data signal loss or power leakage between conductors! That is not a fun project to undertake trust me as I used to have to do it all too often. That is how I became "aware" of sealant properties and the problems with them.

    I would much rather recommend the * (OSI sealant like stallionent uses over GE) as I have used it myself but NOT on electrical stuff. Primarily due to the fact that it sets up faster and better under outdoor conditions than the GE does. If I was doing a repair in my shop, I would use the GE type.

    * To clarify this point, I mean in sealing two silicone ends together only. The GE II sealant is quite adequate and even one that I do recommend for electrical connections over all others. Be careful though because different variations on GE have different properties that may not work well with electrical! Most of the common GE II ones are alright but always check to be sure.
    As plasmadrive points out, GE II is a neutral silicone but their regular GE silicone is not. As for the OSI sealant, I would have to get some and run tests to confirm as well as contact the factory for accurate and up to date information on it before using it on electrical.
    Last edited by beeiilll; 02-17-2017 at 02:46 PM.

  8. #108
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    Default Re: 5V v/s 12V

    Although my apologies for getting this thread off course as it is, I think that knowledge about sealants is important especially for those of us who run 5V stuff as it can play a role in things. The 12V users can benefit as well since there is more power to dissipate with 12V pixels so a larger potential for possible electrical reactions.
    My testing of sealants was based at looking specifically at the electrical interference and corrosion problems of different sealants and NOT at the adhesive or bonding properties per say although I wanted to see how well they would protect connections from moisture as well to get a generally acceptable level.
    The testing was done in 2012 to 2013 and things have progressed in the field of materials since then as well so it behooves anyone who wants to use any sealants to research them to see if they are compatible with electrical connections or not. Any silicone can be used to connect the silicone sleeves on strips together with varying degrees of success but the electrical sealing and protection is quite a different form to play with.
    I am not trying to scare anyone away from using whatever you want, just providing my own observations, research, and personal testing over the years of working with electronics and electrical equipment.
    It was not all that long ago that electrical connections were specified to be "encased" in friction electrical tape with vinyl electrical tape over that! Mainly for motor connections but also in commercial electrical work.

    If anyone is using a specific type of sealant, let me know and I will see about making up some new tests to try it out again. I probably should do some of the newer window and door stuff and GE silicones as well since with the new VOC laws, they are all being "updated" and changed as well.
    Last edited by beeiilll; 02-17-2017 at 08:12 AM.

  9. #109
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    Default Re: 5V v/s 12V

    Something strange. I have never used the OSI stuff so I started reading. Can't find any reference to the cure and whether or not it emits acetic acid. However, I did go back and read about GE Silicon II. The tube says it does not emit Acetic Acid during cure. The web site says this

    "What's the difference between GE Silicone I* caulk and GE Silicone II* caulk?
    GE Silicone II* caulk is what's called a "neutral cure" silicone, which means no acids are released during the curing process (as there are in GE Silicone I*). This enables GE Silicone II* to adhere to a broader range of substrates such as plastics, concrete, and metals. Also, the odor of a neutral cure silicone such as GE Silicone II* is much less offensive than an acid or acetoxy cure silicone such as GE Silicone I*."

    The Data Sheet has this note:
    "WARNING:
    UNCURED PRODUCT CAUSES IRRITATION TO EYES, RESPIRATORY SYSTEM AND SKIN.
    MAY CAUSE HEADACHE, DIZZINESS, AND NAUSEA. Acetic acid released during cure.
    Avoid breathing vapors. Wear skin and eye protection......"

    I tend to believe the first one since I have never had an issue with Silicon II and electronics. It does release ammonia I believe but not acetic acid..... but here you have what GE says about its own product.

    EDIT: I just received a reply from GE about Silicon II and the conflicting data. It does NOT release acetic acid during cure. The data on the tube is correct.
    Last edited by plasmadrive; 02-17-2017 at 10:16 AM. Reason: Updated information

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  11. #110
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    Default Re: 5V v/s 12V

    Quote Originally Posted by plasmadrive View Post
    Something strange. I have never used the OSI stuff so I started reading. Can't find any reference to the cure and whether or not it emits acetic acid. However, I did go back and read about GE Silicon II. The tube says it does not emit Acetic Acid during cure. The web site says this

    "What's the difference between GE Silicone I* caulk and GE Silicone II* caulk?
    GE Silicone II* caulk is what's called a "neutral cure" silicone, which means no acids are released during the curing process (as there are in GE Silicone I*). This enables GE Silicone II* to adhere to a broader range of substrates such as plastics, concrete, and metals. Also, the odor of a neutral cure silicone such as GE Silicone II* is much less offensive than an acid or acetoxy cure silicone such as GE Silicone I*."

    The Data Sheet has this note:
    "WARNING:
    UNCURED PRODUCT CAUSES IRRITATION TO EYES, RESPIRATORY SYSTEM AND SKIN.
    MAY CAUSE HEADACHE, DIZZINESS, AND NAUSEA. Acetic acid released during cure.
    Avoid breathing vapors. Wear skin and eye protection......"

    I tend to believe the first one since I have never had an issue with Silicon II and electronics. It does release ammonia I believe but not acetic acid..... but here you have what GE says about its own product.

    EDIT: I just received a reply from GE about Silicon II and the conflicting data. It does NOT release acetic acid during cure. The data on the tube is correct.
    And the GE II type is a newer formulation than the one that I tested in 2012 so that also is another difference in my testing. But goes to show that even the same manufacturer can have different or conflicting information on their products.
    Other than a silicone "caulk" that is specifically made for electronics, the GE II is probably the best one to use in this "hobby" at least right now but that could change tomorrow with the newer VOC specs and formulation changes being made all the time as well.

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