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Thread: Any interest? 3d object suite

  1. #1
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    Default Any interest? 3d object suite

    I'm wondering if anyone is controlling 3d skulls or anything similar with Vixen 3. If so, is there any interest in the 3d Object suite ported to Vixen 3. If so I'm thinking I may do a rewrite/upgrade and make if available.
    Chris
    [URL="http://www.maloneylights.com"]http://www.maloneylights.com[/URL]
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Any interest? 3d object suite

    Well, I guess it's a good thing that there's no interest in this. It doesn't look like Vixen 3 is well suited for this. Apparently at the end of every sequence all zeros are sent to the channels. This could end up wreaking havoc on servo's. If this implementation changes I'll look into it again but until then I don't see the need.
    Chris
    [URL="http://www.maloneylights.com"]http://www.maloneylights.com[/URL]
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    Default Re: Any interest? 3d object suite

    3d object suite? Ported from where? Sorry, curious about this functionality

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    Default Re: Any interest? 3d object suite

    Quote Originally Posted by ctmal View Post
    Well, I guess it's a good thing that there's no interest in this. It doesn't look like Vixen 3 is well suited for this. Apparently at the end of every sequence all zeros are sent to the channels. This could end up wreaking havoc on servo's. If this implementation changes I'll look into it again but until then I don't see the need.
    There's a bit of a gap in that logic. Content comes from the sequence. But hardware control and interfacing comes from patching and display setup. If you want to limit the range of the values being output on a channel, you'd do that by placing a dimming curve on that channel.

    Is the problem here the value of zero, or that there's an idle state that it goes to when not explicitly sent something else? In either case, a new filter could be created to define a different idle state.

    I'm not yet familiar with 3D object suite. What would such a module have to offer and how would it apply to sequencing in vixen?

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    Default Re: Any interest? 3d object suite

    Quote Originally Posted by jchuchla View Post
    There's a bit of a gap in that logic. Content comes from the sequence. But hardware control and interfacing comes from patching and display setup. If you want to limit the range of the values being output on a channel, you'd do that by placing a dimming curve on that channel.

    Is the problem here the value of zero, or that there's an idle state that it goes to when not explicitly sent something else? In either case, a new filter could be created to define a different idle state.

    I'm not yet familiar with 3D object suite. What would such a module have to offer and how would it apply to sequencing in vixen?
    The problem is that you can't leave a sequence at a known value such as you can with Vixen 2. So, for example, if you weren't using dimming curves it would end up sending 0's at the end of each sequence. At this point I'm not sure if that's changed, it's been awhile since I've looked at Vixen 3(still all incandescents so Vixen 2 still is plenty).

    As for the 3d Object suite, it's an addin for Vixen 2 so that you can manipulate a 3d model to do your sequencing. I struggled finding a Video but here's a short clip that'll give you the idea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Vszth0uFOY

    For the most part people are using it for talking skulls, but there's a couple of talking ornaments and snowmen out there.
    Chris
    [URL="http://www.maloneylights.com"]http://www.maloneylights.com[/URL]
    [URL="http://halloween.maloneylights.com"]http://halloween.maloneylights.com[/URL]
    [URL="http://ctm.maloneylights.com"]http://ctm.maloneylights.com[/URL]

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    Default Re: Any interest? 3d object suite

    The thing is that when a sequence is over, all channels assume their idle state. Which is by default 0. Why would you not want that with an animatronic? it should still have an idle state to return to when no data is being sent. Now, that idle state may not be zero, that's understandable, but it should still go idle when a sequence isn't playing. Really, if you want it to not change at the end, then you haven't really reached the end yet. A sequence is the scope of control. once you leave that scope, it's has no more to say about it.

    A talking skull is no different than a moving light head. They all return to zero when you're done sending them values. There's definitely things that can be improved within vixen with regard to these types of items. Some devices need more than 8 bits of resolution for position control. Some need to be center based zero points. That can all be accomplished with additional filters. These can be written as the need arises.

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    Default Re: Any interest? 3d object suite

    There are 2 cases that I see where this would be desirable. 1 animatronic and one regular lights...
    1. Animatronic. On my porch I had a talking skull using a RenServo controller(and Vixen 2 at the time). If a 0 was sent at the end of each sequence it would have sent the head looking way to 'his' right instead of nicely looking forward.

    2. Lights. There are some times when people like to make their displays static for a period on time. My brother, for example, likes to leave the Christmas lights on overnight Christmas eve. At about 11:00 he changes them all white. In Vixen 2 he simply needs to run a couple second sequence and not have it end on a 0 so they stay in their last position. It's just a nice option to have.
    Chris
    [URL="http://www.maloneylights.com"]http://www.maloneylights.com[/URL]
    [URL="http://halloween.maloneylights.com"]http://halloween.maloneylights.com[/URL]
    [URL="http://ctm.maloneylights.com"]http://ctm.maloneylights.com[/URL]

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Any interest? 3d object suite

    I use Brookshire VSA for my animatronics.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Any interest? 3d object suite

    Quote Originally Posted by ctmal View Post
    There are 2 cases that I see where this would be desirable. 1 animatronic and one regular lights...
    1. Animatronic. On my porch I had a talking skull using a RenServo controller(and Vixen 2 at the time). If a 0 was sent at the end of each sequence it would have sent the head looking way to 'his' right instead of nicely looking forward.
    You're missing my point. You should be defining the idle position in display setup and not by expecting your last sequence command to be the last. (the appropriate filter doesn't exist yet, but it could) This is a function of the output section, not the sequence. So whenever vixen is not telling to do otherwise, it should do this. whatever values would make Eyes forward, brows relaxed, mouth closed would be this value.
    2. Lights. There are some times when people like to make their displays static for a period on time. My brother, for example, likes to leave the Christmas lights on overnight Christmas eve. At about 11:00 he changes them all white. In Vixen 2 he simply needs to run a couple second sequence and not have it end on a 0 so they stay in their last position. It's just a nice option to have.
    This concept doesn't work within the vixen paradigm. You're making a very limiting assumption that only one sequence is working at a time, and only a sequence can cause an output to respond. That's simply not the case. Many things can feed into the elements at once. If you want the lights to be on, you need to tell them you want them to be on and what it means to be on. Maybe this is by looping a sequence in a schedule, maybe it's by using the web API to set channels on, but in any case, it doesn't assume. You need to tell it what you want it to be doing at all times.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Any interest? 3d object suite

    Ahh, I get it now...sorry for that. I didn't realized that there was a settable idle position. I assume you could do this per channel(Sorry, it has been a while since I looked at Vixen 3)? That would take care of the servo issues.

    So, to respond to a couple of the questions posted.

    XmasinVancouver
    Re: Any interest? 3d object suite

    3d object suite? Ported from where? Sorry, curious about this functionality
    The 3d object suite is an addIn and plugin combo written for Vixen 2.x. It was created to help in the sequencing of small animatronics...mostly skulls for Halloween but the latest rewrite allows you to create 3d models of your choosing if you'd like. At this point I'm unaware of any other models except for the ones I've written, so, there's a snowman, a skull, and a tree ornament models available. At this point, if there was interest in something similar for Vixen 3 I would probably do a major rewrite to correct some things I'd like to improve on.

    I'm not yet familiar with 3D object suite. What would such a module have to offer and how would it apply to sequencing in vixen?
    Unfortunately I haven't checked out Vixen 3 in awhile but I do remember that there were plans on handling servo controllers, etc. Having said that, as of the last time I did look at Vixen 3, it would give a graphical representation of your animatronics, allow you to manipulate that in real time and record the movements. Instead of dealing with a grid(I'm not sure what it's called in Vixen 3) to manipulate your object you can manipulate a 3d representation of it instead. It was a huge time saver in Vixen 2.x
    Chris
    [URL="http://www.maloneylights.com"]http://www.maloneylights.com[/URL]
    [URL="http://halloween.maloneylights.com"]http://halloween.maloneylights.com[/URL]
    [URL="http://ctm.maloneylights.com"]http://ctm.maloneylights.com[/URL]

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