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Thread: DIY Christmas Thingiverse Group

  1. #11
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    Default Re: DIY Christmas Thingiverse Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Barnabybear View Post
    Hi, anyone tried milling their own PCBs yet with their printer?
    http://www.open-electronics.org/how-...lling-machine/
    I have a small CNC router (Zen Toolworks) that's the equivalent of a low-end 3D printer which I tried to mill some PC Boards with. But it's not really worth it.

    I routed a few boards that's the complexity of maybe a Light-O-Rama CTB16PC board, and it takes about 15 hours of milling per side, and it's an exceedingly complex task

    Even if you use a 10 degree bit, the depth of the board to the bit makes a massive difference in how wide your traces come out. And blank boards isn't perfectly level - so one the left side of the board your traces may come out at 20 mils, and in the middle they come out as 2 mils or non-existing at the exact same Z-level.

    So I went through the effort of doing a board depth probe where I probe every 10mm x 10mm the depth of the board, then get an idea of what the entire board surface looks like, then I wrote a program that ran through the gcode and adjust the depths.

    So the probe takes 4 hours, and then another 10 hours of milling traces, and another hour of drilling holes. Then you get to flip it all over and probe it all over again. Except now you have to also align the board perfectly otherwise your traces don't match your holes.

    And then 1 tiny slip of the router and it cuts through all your traces, and you have to restart everything.

    I managed to do a few boards this way... but it's not a great way to spend time.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: DIY Christmas Thingiverse Group

    I looked at doing this for a long time.
    I too agree that it's not worth it.
    Remember, after you mill the board traces, you still have to drill all the holes !
    When you can get 5x5cm or even 10x10cm boards for $2/board in qty 10, its pretty hard to justify.

    However, I do think this is a great tool for milling custom cases out of acrylic !
    Like the FM02 enclosure that was available for awhile.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: DIY Christmas Thingiverse Group

    Quote Originally Posted by deonb View Post
    I have a small CNC router (Zen Toolworks) that's the equivalent of a low-end 3D printer which I tried to mill some PC Boards with. But it's not really worth it.

    I routed a few boards that's the complexity of maybe a Light-O-Rama CTB16PC board, and it takes about 15 hours of milling per side, and it's an exceedingly complex task

    Even if you use a 10 degree bit, the depth of the board to the bit makes a massive difference in how wide your traces come out. And blank boards isn't perfectly level - so one the left side of the board your traces may come out at 20 mils, and in the middle they come out as 2 mils or non-existing at the exact same Z-level.

    So I went through the effort of doing a board depth probe where I probe every 10mm x 10mm the depth of the board, then get an idea of what the entire board surface looks like, then I wrote a program that ran through the gcode and adjust the depths.

    So the probe takes 4 hours, and then another 10 hours of milling traces, and another hour of drilling holes. Then you get to flip it all over and probe it all over again. Except now you have to also align the board perfectly otherwise your traces don't match your holes.

    And then 1 tiny slip of the router and it cuts through all your traces, and you have to restart everything.

    I managed to do a few boards this way... but it's not a great way to spend time.


    Quote Originally Posted by ukewarrior View Post
    I looked at doing this for a long time.
    I too agree that it's not worth it.
    Remember, after you mill the board traces, you still have to drill all the holes !
    When you can get 5x5cm or even 10x10cm boards for $2/board in qty 10, its pretty hard to justify.

    However, I do think this is a great tool for milling custom cases out of acrylic !
    Like the FM02 enclosure that was available for awhile.
    Wow total buzz kill. Well better to find out now than later after the expense. Thanks for the heads up guys.







    __________________________________________________ __________

    Cesar J. Morin
    http://cj.morin.rocks

    Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE*Samsung SM-G928V Galaxy S6 Edge+ smartphone*using*Tapatalk for Android.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: DIY Christmas Thingiverse Group

    Thanks for creating this group. We are already getting some great items posted!
    2014 - pretty basic static display
    2015 - lots of Blinky Flashy
    5 x Renard SS24
    2 x Renard SS16 for singing trees
    2 x e682 for around 2000 pixels
    2016 - Up to around 12,000 pixels and still wanting more.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: DIY Christmas Thingiverse Group

    No problem, I know I am excited that there is enthusiasm for this. Let's hope it keeps going and we can all get great ideas from there.







    __________________________________________________ __________

    Cesar J. Morin
    http://cj.morin.rocks

    Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE*Samsung SM-G928V Galaxy S6 Edge+ smartphone*using*Tapatalk for Android.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: DIY Christmas Thingiverse Group

    Quote Originally Posted by deonb View Post
    I have a small CNC router (Zen Toolworks) that's the equivalent of a low-end 3D printer which I tried to mill some PC Boards with. But it's not really worth it.

    I routed a few boards that's the complexity of maybe a Light-O-Rama CTB16PC board, and it takes about 15 hours of milling per side, and it's an exceedingly complex task

    Even if you use a 10 degree bit, the depth of the board to the bit makes a massive difference in how wide your traces come out. And blank boards isn't perfectly level - so one the left side of the board your traces may come out at 20 mils, and in the middle they come out as 2 mils or non-existing at the exact same Z-level.

    So I went through the effort of doing a board depth probe where I probe every 10mm x 10mm the depth of the board, then get an idea of what the entire board surface looks like, then I wrote a program that ran through the gcode and adjust the depths.

    So the probe takes 4 hours, and then another 10 hours of milling traces, and another hour of drilling holes. Then you get to flip it all over and probe it all over again. Except now you have to also align the board perfectly otherwise your traces don't match your holes.

    And then 1 tiny slip of the router and it cuts through all your traces, and you have to restart everything.

    I managed to do a few boards this way... but it's not a great way to spend time.
    I looked at doing this for a long time.
    I too agree that it's not worth it.
    Remember, after you mill the board traces, you still have to drill all the holes !
    When you can get 5x5cm or even 10x10cm boards for $2/board in qty 10, its pretty hard to justify.

    However, I do think this is a great tool for milling custom cases out of acrylic !
    Like the FM02 enclosure that was available for awhile.
    oh well I have the kit and am half way through the modification so I'll stick with it. It's good to know were the problems are. I'm not looking for big PCB's it would just be nice to go from bread board to PCB in a couple of days. Thats the thing I like best about the printer, think it - make it.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: DIY Christmas Thingiverse Group

    Quote Originally Posted by DrNeutron View Post
    Just Joined....
    Just ordered printer, hope to have it in a couple weeks and then assembly and calibrate.
    Almost feels like 1st time building computer....I won't say what that was.... But it was a while ago.....
    My first 3D printer was a significantly better experience than building my first computer...

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  9. #18
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    Default Re: DIY Christmas Thingiverse Group

    has anyone looked into one of these?

    http://www.voltera.io/

  10. #19
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    Default Re: DIY Christmas Thingiverse Group

    Quote Originally Posted by rtyfz450s View Post
    has anyone looked into one of these?

    http://www.voltera.io/
    Interesting but given the quality in the reflow example image, scary:


    Only one of 8 items in the image are correctly aligned and straight. Makes me wonder how the insides of the units look if this is their official example of a finished board it produces.

    The minimum price was $1199. Seems a bit steep. And they say the price is going up.
    Pledge $1,499 or more

    VOLTERA V-ONE (Batch 2) - Special KS price. It will be going up after this! See the FAQ for shipping details.
    That tells me its going to go for $1500+ retail. Very steep price for producing low volume boards. Again, aimed at "prototyping" however you aren't going to be producing standard boards with this given its unique crossover deposition method. So once you prototype with this, you are going to have to prototype a real board (multi-layer that is) for production.

    Still a great concept. And for one-off projects, very interesting. What I would like to see is this concept applied to existing 3D printers. They already have the physical movement hardware, control software, and PSUs. All that would be needed is an adapted print head to deposit the paste and the pathing software to drive the printer.

    I would also like to see the conductivity (ie: resistance) of the traces tested and compared to traditional copper based boards. This could make a great difference in current carrying capacity and also affect other analog based circuits (amps, timers, etc).

  11. #20
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    Default Re: DIY Christmas Thingiverse Group

    Shoot, don't dispair !
    It's a really cool project and I would love to see your finished machine.
    I'll even send you some copper clad if you don't have any to practice on !
    Quote Originally Posted by Barnabybear View Post
    oh well I have the kit and am half way through the modification so I'll stick with it. It's good to know were the problems are. I'm not looking for big PCB's it would just be nice to go from bread board to PCB in a couple of days. Thats the thing I like best about the printer, think it - make it.

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