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Thread: Vixen 3 combined effects

  1. #11
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    Default Re: Vixen 3 combined effects

    What about this...and we're just talking here, I don't know how feasible this is...

    Building on Materdaddy's concept of an effect builder (which is a really cool idea, by the way)...the ability -- as a user instead of as a module author -- to build up complex effects from your library of available effects. You select effects, lay them on top of each other, combining them using boolean operations. Each one would be individually configurable, but you end up with a single effect that you can use. So it's essentially the same as what Materdaddy said, but you do it in data instead of in code. Then if you want, you later go back and change one of the components, which is something you couldn't do in 2.x.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Vixen 3 combined effects

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    What about this...and we're just talking here, I don't know how feasible this is...

    Building on Materdaddy's concept of an effect builder (which is a really cool idea, by the way)...the ability -- as a user instead of as a module author -- to build up complex effects from your library of available effects. You select effects, lay them on top of each other, combining them using boolean operations. Each one would be individually configurable, but you end up with a single effect that you can use. So it's essentially the same as what Materdaddy said, but you do it in data instead of in code. Then if you want, you later go back and change one of the components, which is something you couldn't do in 2.x.
    This sounds very interesting and some nice effects could be created.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Vixen 3 combined effects

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    What about this...and we're just talking here, I don't know how feasible this is...

    Building on Materdaddy's concept of an effect builder (which is a really cool idea, by the way)...the ability -- as a user instead of as a module author -- to build up complex effects from your library of available effects. You select effects, lay them on top of each other, combining them using boolean operations. Each one would be individually configurable, but you end up with a single effect that you can use. So it's essentially the same as what Materdaddy said, but you do it in data instead of in code. Then if you want, you later go back and change one of the components, which is something you couldn't do in 2.x.
    I'm terrible at expressing my technical thoughts in writing. What you described here is exactly what I was thinking. I didn't think each combined effect would be in code, I thought it would be another button on the toolbar near to the basic effects already there. This new thing would *originally* be coded up by the Vixen team for a "build effect" effect, but the every day use of it would be done in either a drag-drop interface, or some form of UI that users (not developers) will use all the time to create custom effects built out of the basic effects. It might even be nice to have a way to save combined effects and share them, similar to the thread Wayne started on Vixen routines.

    I (obviously) love the idea!
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  4. #14
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    Default Re: Vixen 3 combined effects

    Quote Originally Posted by Materdaddy View Post
    It might even be nice to have a way to save combined effects and share them, similar to the thread Wayne started on Vixen routines.
    +1


    I think this would solve a bunch of issues with trying to recreate effects that have been used in the past. This thread, for example, was just trying to create an inverted chase, where everything is on except for the chase.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Vixen 3 combined effects

    In the interest of finding out if I'm going down a correct path or not...how would you expect to accomplish that with the proposed effect builder?

    I implemented the six existing boolean operations last night to see what the impact would be and, if I'm honest, just to play around because it's fun. You can get some complex results by applying simple operations to simple effects. By adding a constant value effect to a linear ramp effect using a boolean "AND", you end up with a sawtooth result. Switch it to an "OR" operation and it becomes a stair-step ramp instead of a smooth linear ramp.

    The implementation is kind of crap because it's pretty inefficient, so I don't want to say "YES!". But it's a promising proof of concept.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Vixen 3 combined effects

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    In the interest of finding out if I'm going down a correct path or not...how would you expect to accomplish that with the proposed effect builder?

    I implemented the six existing boolean operations last night to see what the impact would be and, if I'm honest, just to play around because it's fun. You can get some complex results by applying simple operations to simple effects. By adding a constant value effect to a linear ramp effect using a boolean "AND", you end up with a sawtooth result. Switch it to an "OR" operation and it becomes a stair-step ramp instead of a smooth linear ramp.

    The implementation is kind of crap because it's pretty inefficient, so I don't want to say "YES!". But it's a promising proof of concept.
    KC.

    I hope that any/all of this will be implemented as object properties and would like to reiterate the concept of prioritizing the effect combinations.
    Maybe i'm not explaining priorities correctly, think of them as layers they are really the layer order and the bolean property then becomes the operator to define how the layers combine.
    To take this even a step further borrowing from photoshop you could also add a transperancy property that would scale the entire set of effect values.

    Still tossing ideas around and hoping some get caught, Vixen3 has had me excited for months.

    Phil
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  7. #17
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    Default Re: Vixen 3 combined effects

    Quote Originally Posted by aussiephil View Post
    KC.

    I hope that any/all of this will be implemented as object properties and would like to reiterate the concept of prioritizing the effect combinations.
    Maybe i'm not explaining priorities correctly, think of them as layers they are really the layer order and the bolean property then becomes the operator to define how the layers combine.
    To take this even a step further borrowing from photoshop you could also add a transperancy property that would scale the entire set of effect values.

    Still tossing ideas around and hoping some get caught, Vixen3 has had me excited for months.

    Phil
    x2 on all aspects. The property 'transperancy', how the layers combine, as well as the V3 excitement!
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  8. #18
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    Default Re: Vixen 3 combined effects

    Your concept of priorities and how they interact is, if I'm understanding correctly, baked into the proof-of-concept I tried. You have a set of effects that are being combined with boolean operations and those effects can be re-ordered. While there isn't a numerical priority, you can just change the order in which the effects are combined and the operator to do so.

    But the transparency concept...I'm not following that one. Assume I've used Photoshop for all of 10 minutes in my life...

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Vixen 3 combined effects

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Your concept of priorities and how they interact is, if I'm understanding correctly, baked into the proof-of-concept I tried. You have a set of effects that are being combined with boolean operations and those effects can be re-ordered. While there isn't a numerical priority, you can just change the order in which the effects are combined and the operator to do so.

    But the transparency concept...I'm not following that one. Assume I've used Photoshop for all of 10 minutes in my life...
    KC

    Photoshop layer transperancy first.
    The correct term is actually Layer Opacity and it is used to determine how visible the underlying layer is. Now whilst the following link also talks about fill it does explain opacity with pictures
    http://www.photoshopessentials.com/b...acity-vs-fill/

    Now a quick comment on using actual numerical priorities on the objects, giving the effect object a numeric priority attribute especially if it was inherited by the objects in the sequencer time line and would be usefull outside of just the effect builder to allow for ad-hoc effect mixing in the sequencer without potentially being worried about layer order.
    Use case
    Last 15% of song you apply a ramp down effect across the entire display and set it to priority 1 (most important) then you could still apply chases etc with the ramp down effect being applied to the chase as well.
    Interestingly this equates to a gradient layer mask in photoshop.
    https://www.photospin.com/emails/tip...urce=TIP+EMAIL

    Interesting how many of the things we want to do with lights equate to concepts in image editing.

    Phil
    2012:
    Software: LightFactory Personal
    Hardware: J1Sys Pixel controllers . [url]Http://www.j1sys.com[/url]
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  10. #20
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    Default Re: Vixen 3 combined effects

    Ah, but therein lies our disconnect. Where you're using an effect to fade down the whole display, there is actually a separate sequence-level concept being used to accomplish that. I didn't fully disclose the details of it, so you had no way of knowing that. Conceptually, what you're doing at the sequence level to fade the entire display down is separated from the effect data, so there's no need to negotiate the interaction between them. They (actions such as the fade out) are intended to be applied to the results of all of the effect data, so they come in at the end of the execution pipeline.

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