Vixen/Arduino Standardization HELP WANTED!

[Jonpro03]

I like the Uno for a couple of reasons. It's available at Radio Shack which makes it accessible for guys like me who do not like ordering off of the internet. It's expandable with readily available shields (some at radio shack :D). It also has a DC jack for power, whereas a mini or micro need power run in on a pin.

That's not to say that I don't think a mini or a nano has it's place in a light show. I could definitely see the merit in having a removable mini on the back of a pixel panel.

Opinions?

[DennyMo]

It's available at Radio Shack which makes it accessible for guys like me who do not like ordering off of the internet.

I'm shocked: my RS in East Podunk actually carries these. I had no idea, until your post made me check.

A custom board with a nano would be... less flexible for experimentation and customizing.

Good point. I'm getting ahead of myself again, trying to jump to the final design.

I have found a couple online discussions (not at DIYC) about SSR shields that also feed ZC to the Arduino, don't know if anybody's actually finished one they really like yet.

[Zeph]

Phil wisely notes there may not be a consensus yet (perhaps in response to my note starting with "if there is a consensus"). I think it's fine to continue the discussion, but perhaps it would be useful to do a straw poll as part of getting focus, to undertand the target niche (or architecture as Phil puts it). We can have more discussion first, but I'd love to see something like the following before long:

Draft (NOT the real poll, just working on what we want to ask):

How much interest do you have in each of these architectures for 2012? (high / medium / some / none)
* Arduino receiving sequence data from sequencer on PC, dimming lights
* Arduino receiving sequence data from sequencer on PC, doing non-dimming things with them
* Arduino receiving non-sequence data from PC, doing something different with it
* Arduino as standalone, controlling lights (directly or by communicating with other DIYC controllers)
* Arduino as sensor input platform feeding data back to PC
* Arduino in line between PC sending sequences and conventional controllers receiving sequences
* Other (describe)

Obviously over time the interests will change, and multiple projects serving different needs may germinate and come to fruition - so I'm suggesting that we focus first on the near term of 2012 projects.

[Jonpro03]

How about something like:

*Arduino Mega
*Arduino Uno
*Arduino Mini/Micro
*Arduino as a stand alone controller (sequence and music onboard)
*Arduino as a regular controller (connected to a pc)
*Arduino direct control of strings AC or DC
*Arduino/Renard compatibility
*Arduino/DMX compatibility
*Arduino/(etc) compatibility
*Dimming
*Ethernet
*Wireless
*USB/Serial
*Music playback
*FM transmitter
*Animatronics support
*Pixels support
*Other - please describe

Of course, people can choose more than one (and are encouraged to).

[DennyMo]

I'm not sure this is an "architecture", but more a supporting task: I'd also be interested in tools that simplify creation of sequences. That would probably have to wait until the hardware and coding architecture were conquered, though.

[buckanear]

I've been following these threads, and I can't help but wonder why nobody seems to ask why they believe that the Arduino solution would be able to do more/better than the solutions developed so far? Don't get me wrong, doing it for the sake of doing it is a perfectly acceptable goal. But doing it thinking that "because it's Arduino we're going to be able to do so much more" seems a shaky starting point.

labrat

I agree that doing it for the sake of Arduino is not a good premiss to start with. Cost wise I seriously doubt that Arduino is cheaper. It's appeal maybe to the fact that it is modular in design. Far more than what the mature designs have. Is it the next best thing to slice bread? I doubt it. What attracts me to this is not so much cost. In fact I think what I want to do will actually end up being about 20% to 30% more in cost over any mature design here.

To do some of the brainstorm ideas are just that now. The Arduino alone can not make the donuts, brew the coffee and fry the eggs all at the same time. There has to be a a voice or reason to reign in the wild brainstorm ideas. Yours is that. It is welcomed and should be heeded in future goals and designs.

I too caution the society here to crawl before we run. First off we do need to get to something that is usable and producible. Either Renard or DMX is a first step. Lets get say a simple 8 channel system up and running first before we go hog wild and find we have bit off more than we can chew. The shield I introduced is just for that purpose. The Mega328 can actually handle 16 channels. First step is to get Vixen to talk to an Arduino and just blink lights. Then we can forward to with dimming and anything else. That is my plan.

I hope to finalize a schematic in the next week and complete a layout. Right now I am to a point to order some parts to bread board first before committing the layout to fabrication. My one concern right now is I have laptop and a desktop that does not have a RS232 port between them. USB ports only. I do have the FTDI USB to serial module and that is what I intend to use for starts. I am not sure that Vixen can output straight to USB without the virtual com ports.

One last thing about the Arduino form factor. It is not limited to the line of Atmel chips. In fact I have a derivative of the Esduino that uses a Freescale MC9S12C32 chip on a form factor of the Arduino Pro. I can also fit it with a MC9S12C128 if more RAM and Flash are needed. To me it is the form factor, it's size that is what attracts me.

just my thoughts

james

[buckanear]

How about something like:

*Arduino Mega
*Arduino Uno
*Arduino Mini/Micro
*Arduino as a stand alone controller (sequence and music onboard)
*Arduino as a regular controller (connected to a pc)
*Arduino direct control of strings AC or DC
*Arduino/Renard compatibility
*Arduino/DMX compatibility
*Arduino/(etc) compatibility
*Dimming
*Ethernet
*Wireless
*USB/Serial
*Music playback
*FM transmitter
*Animatronics support
*Pixels support
*Other - please describe

Of course, people can choose more than one (and are encouraged to).

While the Arduino form factor can allow a highly modular system, I think before we go to much farther we need to curtail the brainstorming a bit and first get something working. I am willing to contribute my work to the group if there is interests. First off what I have started is just to get say a couple of Renard8 boards working to communicate with Vixen and hopefully blink a couple of strings of lights. The shield I proposed is a start. It is only 8 channels but the UNO has enough port lines brought out to expand to 16 channels. By keeping the SSRs off the shield, leaves flexibility of either going with DC or AC SSRs externally. Further adding to the modularity and flexibility of the system. That is the beauty of Arduino in my opinion.

I drooled when I came across the site where all the Arduino libraries to control the RFM22B ISM band transceiver module from Hope RF. I also came to the realization that to all out commit to implementation of that for Christmas 2012 is risky on my own. If it were to fail then I have nothing but lights this year. So Renard is better than nothing.

What I have so far is this:

1) a schematic and layout started for the UNO R3 shield 50% done.
2) I have a 5cm x 5cm board that has six SSRs on it using the Vishay VO2223A phototriac. i plan to put no more that 100 incandescent light string on a single SSR. This puts my cost for the SSR PCB to about $0.20 each. Seedstudio PCB service, ten boards with six SSRs per board.
3) I have a shield that fits the Arduino Pro that has the RFM22B module with patch antenna and two RJ45 jacks on board done. (from another project). The board will need to be tweaked to use for the SSRs.
4) From another project, I have a Arduino board done that uses a MC9S12C32 instead of the Atmega328. It is in the form factor of the Arduino Pro with 8 extra port lines brought out. Again this board can be tweaked to worked with Christmas lights if I go that route. It is based off of the Esduino project. Google it to better understand what it is.

I am working on two approaches. One hard wire using Renard. The second and what I eventually will go with in the future is a RF based system where one Arduino board is a node with 8 to 64 channels and each node with an unique address. In other words I decided to sort of reinvent the wheel. The RFM22B modules will handle data rates up to 250Kbps. The modules I have all run on the 433 MHz ISM band. I chose to use the sub GHz ISM bands over the higher bands in hopes for less congestion. At 250Kbps I can transmit 64 octets of data to a node in about 2mS. Hopefully ten nodes in less than 25mS is the goal. Naturally at 16 nodes I am looking at about 1.5mS or less to update a node.

Like I stated, the conventional wire node method of the Renard is more likely the one I go with this year. Sort of crawling before I run. I am going from zero controlled lights to a rather small display of about 1000 to 4000 lights this year.


just my thoughts.

james

[buckanear]

Phil wisely notes there may not be a consensus yet (perhaps in response to my note starting with "if there is a consensus"). I think it's fine to continue the discussion, but perhaps it would be useful to do a straw poll as part of getting focus, to undertand the target niche (or architecture as Phil puts it). We can have more discussion first, but I'd love to see something like the following before long:

Draft (NOT the real poll, just working on what we want to ask):

How much interest do you have in each of these architectures for 2012? (high / medium / some / none)
* Arduino receiving sequence data from sequencer on PC, dimming lights
* Arduino receiving sequence data from sequencer on PC, doing non-dimming things with them
* Arduino receiving non-sequence data from PC, doing something different with it
* Arduino as standalone, controlling lights (directly or by communicating with other DIYC controllers)
* Arduino as sensor input platform feeding data back to PC
* Arduino in line between PC sending sequences and conventional controllers receiving sequences
* Other (describe)

Obviously over time the interests will change, and multiple projects serving different needs may germinate and come to fruition - so I'm suggesting that we focus first on the near term of 2012 projects.

As I have stated elsewhere.

My intent is Vixen to Arduino using Renard. Current path is wired method. Future hopes in RF instead of wires. I can let the laptop do what it does best, run Vixen and play MP3's or even MIDI files. That part Arduino really can't do much to improve on.

One thing that Arduino could do is act as a compact wireless bridge between Vixen and a Renard system. The Arduino Mega2560 with its internal 8 K RAM could buffer a couple of time slots of Renard for up to say 200 or so channels.

just a thought

james

[Zeph]

Regarding Renard or DMX protocols, there are actually two possible tasks for each: receiving/intepreting or sending/generating; we need to be clear which we mean in any poll or description.

Receive Renard:
For example, the Arduino could receive Renard on RS485 from the PC and then use it to control SSRs. Besides receiving Renard, it would need to handle the timing for PWM or PPM control of the SSRs, replacing the PIC functions.

Generate Renard:
Or, the Arduino as standalone controller could send Renard on RS485 to another board (eg: Renard 64XC+SSRs or Renard 16SS). Those boards would handle the 120VAC, zero crossing, PWM timing, etc. The Arduino would generate the sequences - either regurgitating a stored sequence, generating it on the fly algorithmically, etc. The Arduino could use other shields and sensors to trigger or modify sequences. To me this is more interesting, as it's filling a new niche. (The niche may be similar to a PropController or some such, but the Arduino has its ecosystem of shields to allow quick and easy reconfiguration).

(Likewise for DMX rather than Renard)

Hybrid: Of course, it could do both. Or it could both generate sequences sent out on RS485, and controlled locally via its own SSRs.

I think James's board would support all of these (assuming the shield will stack with others), if it still has: RJ45 RS485 input and output, RJ45 outputs for SSRs, and a ZC circuit. One group could start on receiving/decoding Renard, and dimming SSRs. Another could work on saving sequences for standalone output, or on generating sequences - for output as Renard RS485 or for direct dimming via the onboard SSR RJ45's.

So the whole list I gave is compatible with James's proposed shield - a poll might more influence which sketches/libraries various people take on creating, to use with it.

[Blackbeard]

I have just purchased my first Arduino in the past month or so. I've got a Nano 328 and a Mega 2560 currently. I see tons of possibilities for these devices and have sorta started thinking on my own about what I could do with them. Now that this thread has started, I sense the excitement of the community. Since I use Lynx Express boards, I'm obviously favoring the DMX protocol.

One of the things that bothered me was that even though these are Open Source projects, a lot of the more fancier boards use SMD processor chips. I'd hope that eventually someone (maybe even myself) could design a through-hole version of most of whatever we decide to use. Ebay sells a lot of the PCBs very cheaply, but few of them are non-SMD. For now, the processors like the 2560 sell for almost what I can get the complete, populated board for on Ebay. Time will tell if these are quality boards or not. When deciding on a particular Arduino, please keep in mind that group buys of the completed boards might be a nice option, as well as for the processor chips for the true DIYer. A lot of the bigger chips probably don't even come in DIL flavors, so group buys are important. Another thought is that except for enclosure considerations, the actual Arduino board size does not have to remain the same as the official board as long as the shield connectors are consistent with the official Arduino if someone were to create something.

As I've searched for libraries, I find that a lot of redundant libraries are out there. For instance, for the DMX reception library, I've found 2 or 3 different ones. I'm not sure any of them really work yet, but as these criteria are defined for all of this, I'd hope that a repository for 'working' libraries will be created. It'd be great if "official" libraries could be designated for this project, and others be listed as beta as far as their adoption into the project.

I realize this isn't helping define any of the criteria, but as we get this thing rolling, I just hope there will be some order to ALL aspects of the project.

steve