Vixen 3.0 Introduction Series - Part 3

[Materdaddy]

I have a question regarding the new "effects", "groups", "properties", etc.

Are they rendered and saved to the files as event data, or are they saved as a "group", "effect", "property" data? If they're saved as pre-processed groups/effects/properties, will there be an "export" option? Or even an "auto-export"/"auto-render" option?

I'm writing some software to run on a small linux device for playback instead of using a laptop/desktop. The software currently reads the event data in the current vixen file format which is easily parsed and written to a serial port. Will I have to re-implement the effects/groups/property processing that vixen implements for my software to read saved vixen files from 3.0 to use them?

[sallz0r]

I have a question regarding the new "effects", "groups", "properties", etc.

Are they rendered and saved to the files as event data, or are they saved as a "group", "effect", "property" data? If they're saved as pre-processed groups/effects/properties, will there be an "export" option? Or even an "auto-export"/"auto-render" option?

They won't be rendered to the file, the effect data will be saved to be able to modify effects later on. The way it will work is completely different to 2.x, so it's best to try not to think about it in that sort of mindset.

We've discussed export options, but that's more for sharing sequences between people, and nothing is set in stone yet.

I'm writing some software to run on a small linux device for playback instead of using a laptop/desktop. The software currently reads the event data in the current vixen file format which is easily parsed and written to a serial port. Will I have to re-implement the effects/groups/property processing that vixen implements for my software to read saved vixen files from 3.0 to use them?

Short answer, yes. There's nothing in 3.x that's compatible with 2.x.

Long answer, we're aiming for Vixen to be supported (in theory) under Linux (and other OSes) in future. It won't be supported out of the gate, but hopefully with Mono we can get it working on other platforms. We haven't actually done any of that work yet, but it's the intent and aim. (standard disclaimer applies!)

[Matt_Edwards]

This all sounds exciting. Great work team!
Matthew

[Materdaddy]

Short answer, yes. There's nothing in 3.x that's compatible with 2.x.

Long answer, we're aiming for Vixen to be supported (in theory) under Linux (and other OSes) in future. It won't be supported out of the gate, but hopefully with Mono we can get it working on other platforms. We haven't actually done any of that work yet, but it's the intent and aim. (standard disclaimer applies!)

Wow, thanks for the quick response!

Before the 4-week series, I heard rumors of Mono and being cross platform, but those seemed squashed last week.

My software's aim isn't only cross platform support, but also "light weight" support. Even if Vixen were to run under Linux, it certainly wouldn't run on the embedded devices I'd like to target. (Chumby and/or Sheevaplugs). My plan is to have a small embedded linux device drive the show due to cost, geekyness, power use, etc.

Will any of the source be available, or only APIs?

One last question for now. Will the Vixen core be designed to have the "rendering engine" separate from the "do the sequencing" front end so maybe a light weight (300MHz? MIPS) machine could possibly run the rendering portion without the GUI?

[sallz0r]

Before the 4-week series, I heard rumors of Mono and being cross platform, but those seemed squashed last week.

Aah, right -- sorry, both answers were intended to give the same impression, obviously worded badly enough that they sounded different. :-)

What I mean in both cases is that it's not ruled out, but it's not something that's being actively developed for. We're keeping it as a goal, and that's why we've done things like use WinForms instead of WPF (as Mono has no intention of supporting WPF, I believe), but we can't guarantee Mono support. It's only an intent at this stage.

My software's aim isn't only cross platform support, but also "light weight" support. Even if Vixen were to run under Linux, it certainly wouldn't run on the embedded devices I'd like to target. (Chumby and/or Sheevaplugs). My plan is to have a small embedded linux device drive the show due to cost, geekyness, power use, etc.

Gotcha. I work with embedded devices as my day job, and am more comfortable with embedded C and linux than .NET, so I know where you're coming from. :-) Unfortunately that's not the intent of 3.x, as I understand it -- I believe there's always been an implicit assumption of having a PC control it all.

Will any of the source be available, or only APIs?

That's above my pay grade. ;-) That's up to KC, it's his project, and he's been pretty adamant in the past that it's a very personal pet project of his that he likes to work on and keep close to his heart -- which I think is great, and I can completely understand. I'm a huge supporter of open source, yet I've been the same way about many of my own personal projects too. Hmm.... that's a bit of cognitive dissonance, now that I think about it....

One last question for now. Will the Vixen core be designed to have the "rendering engine" separate from the "do the sequencing" front end so maybe a light weight (300MHz? MIPS) machine could possibly run the rendering portion without the GUI?

It hasn't been designed like that. However, in future (and I'm talking a long, long way down the track) we may be able to do things like prerender a display to a file that embedded devices could use, or something like that..... I'm just thinking out loud here, take it with a grain of salt. But there may be things we can do, I'm not sure.

[deplanche]

Will the new version still be able to run off an external hard drive or jump drive, or will it require an install?

[Materdaddy]

sallz0r, thank you very much for the fast, detailed, and informative responses. I appreciate the replies as well as the work KC and all of the developers are doing for Vixen. It is a great piece of software and I know a lot of time, effort, and brain power are poured into it.

[sallz0r]

Will the new version still be able to run off an external hard drive or jump drive, or will it require an install?

No idea as of yet.

[KC]

If I may add to what sallz0r's already said...

Before the 4-week series, I heard rumors of Mono and being cross platform, but those seemed squashed last week.

JonathonReinhart's been beating the drum for Mono support, so, like Michael said, there is the intent. It's just been a long while since anyone's run MoMA.

Will any of the source be available, or only APIs?

Just APIs at this point. It was a step forward for me to trust bringing other developers in, so one step at a time.

One last question for now. Will the Vixen core be designed to have the "rendering engine" separate from the "do the sequencing" front end so maybe a light weight (300MHz? MIPS) machine could possibly run the rendering portion without the GUI?

Any front-end application is decoupled from the rendering engine. The platform itself won't have any associated application and will rely on external applications and modules to provide any user interface. So there will be an assembly that implements the back-end without a front-end.

Michael mentioned the possibility of pre-rendering a show to a file for embedded use. I think (think) this is possible out of the box, with appropriate modules written. Michael may have to pull me aside and say "Man, listen, you don't know what you're saying in this," because I'm not the embedded guy, but I think it's easily accomplished.

Will the new version still be able to run off an external hard drive or jump drive, or will it require an install?

It should still be xcopyable. Nothing is registered, all binaries run within the same branch, and data can be separately located.

[Materdaddy]

If I may add to what sallz0r's already said...

Wow, a reply from the Vixen man himself! Thanks KC. I appreciate not only the software, but the willingness you have to share with the community and what your software has done for the hobby. Being new to this, it is very welcoming having such great support on the hardware, technical questions, forums, and software sides of the hobby. I appreciate it. Especially since I'm getting answers that sound good to what I want to accomplish, even if it takes time and extra development on my end.