Anyone ever try to make strobes out of old disposable cameras?

[fathead45]

im just wondering if anyone has tried making strobes out of old disposiable cameras?? i have tried to look and couldnt find much info. please help.

[g2ktcf]

several people have.....I think FireGod has done it and chilloutdocdoc was working on some.

[Matt_Edwards]

Same here. I have put it off until next year.
Cheers
Matt

[Photovor]

Working on it now. I have 25 cameras that I've taken apart and re-used the strobes in. I plan on using them this year in my display.


I'm powering them in sets of 8 (series) using 12vdc. I've coated the boards in PlastiDip for protection from the elements, and have also soldered 5vdc relays in where the flash trigger would have been. I plan on using my custom Olsen to trigger these.

If you need additional help, let me know.

[ukewarrior]

I would love to see a diagram or pictures of what you did !


Working on it now. I have 25 cameras that I've taken apart and re-used the strobes in. I plan on using them this year in my display.


I'm powering them in sets of 8 (series) using 12vdc. I've coated the boards in PlastiDip for protection from the elements, and have also soldered 5vdc relays in where the flash trigger would have been. I plan on using my custom Olsen to trigger these.

If you need additional help, let me know.

[docjon]

i would be interested to know how u got past the "charge" button?
On the circuits there is a switch that you press to charge the capacitor, and a switch to activate the flash. Do you trigger both or have you bypassed one of them?

[Photovor]

The charge switch on the cameras that I took apart was basically a piece of copper that depressed against the board to close the charge circuit. I simply soldered this down to the board, so it's always in a charge state. The constant feed of 1.5v (from the 12v series) immediately re-charges the strobe once fired.

In having them charge in series causes a little bit of a catch though. Because once the circuit is fully charged, a transistor basically stops the circuit from charging further, which then affects the charging of the boards further down in the series. What I've found is that each of the 8 strobes in the series must be fired before any of them will charge again. I'll try and update this post as soon as I can get some pictures to explain...

[docjon]

Cool, i see what you mean.
Are you planning to turn off your 12v power supply at the end of each night?
I was thinking of just leaving the AA battery attached to the flash unit and housing it all as one. Is the transistor going to be safe leaving the battery attached now that we have bypassed the charge switch?

[Photovor]

Cool, i see what you mean.
Are you planning to turn off your 12v power supply at the end of each night?
I was thinking of just leaving the AA battery attached to the flash unit and housing it all as one. Is the transistor going to be safe leaving the battery attached now that we have bypassed the charge switch?

Yes, I will be turning off the 12v after each night. The transistor will be fine, just keep in mind that the whole time you're using the camera in the flash mode, that the charge switch is always on (I guess that depends on the type of camera though). I've been playing around with these and doing some testing for a few weeks, and haven't found any issues thus far. Pics coming soon....

[Photovor]

Pictures attached. Should be pretty self explanitory. As for coating the board, you're looking at 3 coats of PlastiDip, which covers everything except the front lens of the strobe unit. In the 2nd picture, you can see how I have a board relay connected to the strobe.

[rkhanso]

Anyone have a source for these cameras? Since we've gone digital, I haven't seen one of these in years. Would Wal-Mart, Walgreens, or some other photo developing shop give these out for free?

Also, I can't see the first picture above....but it's probably my PC.

[51fordf2]

I went to the local Walgreen's, and they gave me a huge box of them! I took probably 1/3 of what they had. They didn't ask any questions at all, just handed them over.

I would imagine most anyplace would react the same...

R

[docjon]

I used to work in a photo store, so i collected them whilst i was working there.
But just as Roger said, most places would just give them away as they only get thrown in the trash.

[Photovor]

Yeah, I got mine at a photo processing place here. They had just done a wedding, so I got like 30 of the same camera, which made things very easy to work with.

[jmksparks]

Yes same here obtained from local drug store, tried diff, trigger configerations ended up with same 5v relay on board, mine however are independent from each other powered from the 5v but reduced too 1.4v using just one component. Charge time is about 4 seconds, not great I know but they are only used for finarly ? (spelling) JK.

[keebler]

some of the walgreens are JERKS. but i found one (a bit out of the way) but they gave me a HUGE bag (roughly 30) of used cameras.
walmarts act like their junk is gold.

[51fordf2]

walmarts act like their junk is gold.

Their "JUNK" IS gold....just ask ANY of Sam's heirs....he'd be rolling in his grave, if he knew they took his "proud to be made in America" store, and turned it into what it is today...

I'll see if our Walgreen's and CVS still lets me get a bunch, if anyone is interested...for a $10.95 flat-rate postal box fee, I bet I could get 30 to someone...I just gave ukewarrior around that many. Is it worth $11.00?

Roger

[rkhanso]

Roger,
After you get them torn apart, soldered up, coated in plastic dip and ready to hook up, ship them right over ;). just kidding.
Let me check a couple CVS/Walgreens and see if I can gather any. If I strike out, I'll take you up on that deal.
The other Roger

[keebler]

Their "JUNK" IS gold....just ask ANY of Sam's heirs....he'd be rolling in his grave, if he knew they took his "proud to be made in America" store, and turned it into what it is today...


Roger

Sam Walton was an awesome man! he had morals, ethics, and values. his brats have ruined what was.
walmrts logo should be "proud to be made in America" not unless it is fond in china. less than 5% of merchandise (not counting food, and other eatables) is imported from china or other countries like india.
I think i read somewhere that walmart (the nations leading retailer) was also the biggest importer and subsequently the leading cause of the trade imbalance. i think i read in that same article that walmart imports more raw tonage than most auto dealers.

you're right sam would be rolling in his grave...

sorry need to stay focus and not hijack threads.... (brian if you feel the need to delete this.... i understand)

[Capt'n Jack]

What voltage is needed to operate one strobe?

[Photovor]

What voltage is needed to operate one strobe?


This will depend on 2 things. When you mean strobe, are you talking the entire charging and trigger assembly, or are you talking the actual strobe bulb itself?

The actual stobe bulb itself can require many hundreds to thousands of volts to operate/trigger- hence the charge/trigger circuit.

I believe that someone developed a way to power the capacitor on the charging circuit directly with 300v. I'm taking the easy way out and sticking with 1.5vdc :-)

On another note, doing this to camera flashes is very dangerous due to the power that the circuits hold. You should be comfortable in working with electronics and know the dangers involved in high-voltage circuits. You can always buy the C9 strobes that simply screw into C9 sockets if you want to take the less dangerous way out.

[Capt'n Jack]

I just wondered if one assembly could be powered separately with less voltage and how much.

[NogginBoink]

Most disposable cameras are powered with a single AAA battery, so ultimately on our end we only need to supply 1.5V. However, those things suck current at the beginning of the charge cycle, so I wouldn't charge too many of 'em at once off of a linear voltage regulator.

[Photovor]

I first tried a wall-wart that supplied 1.5v at 900 ma, and the charge took about 6 seconds. I added another strobe in parallel, and they took about 9 seconds, and then with the 3rd, it took over 15 seconds. That's why I went 12v with them.

[NogginBoink]

Photovor, you don't want to increase the voltage; you want to increase the amperage to get the strobes to charge more quickly. Feeding a 1.5v circuit a diet of 12v is only going to lead to failure of the parts.

[jmksparks]

Gentleman try using a LM317 in REVERSE. Any input voltage, 5v from the cat line in my case outputs ( from the input ) as 1.4v. No heat no stress with a recharge between 2 to 4 seconds. If you need wiring diagram let me know. John

[Blackbeard]

Gentleman try using a LM317 in REVERSE. Any input voltage, 5v from the cat line in my case outputs ( from the input ) as 1.4v. No heat no stress with a recharge between 2 to 4 seconds. If you need wiring diagram let me know. John

John,

Please, do provide a diagram!! And any other info you might have about doing this task.

steve

[Photovor]

Photovor, you don't want to increase the voltage; you want to increase the amperage to get the strobes to charge more quickly. Feeding a 1.5v circuit a diet of 12v is only going to lead to failure of the parts.


I'm well aware of this, however it's very hard to find a 1.5vdc supply that can output many amps, so I went to a 12v computer power supply, which can supply up to 20A on the 12V side. So wiring some in a series and using the 12vdc gave me the amperage I needed.

[rkhanso]

Gentleman try using a LM317 in REVERSE. Any input voltage, 5v from the cat line in my case outputs ( from the input ) as 1.4v. No heat no stress with a recharge between 2 to 4 seconds. If you need wiring diagram let me know. John I'm all for seeing what you've done. Was able to pick up 10 disposable cameras from Wal-Mart the other day and have them torn apart waiting for a good/quick/easy/cheap solution to putting them in the display. Also wondering how to control them when all I have is SS24 boards.....

How about home-etching and building a bunch of supplies like THESE (http://www.allspectrum.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=1602)
HERE'S (http://www.allspectrum.com/velleman/K1823/illustrated_assembly_manual_k1823.pdf) the assembly instructions.
I'm sure we can do it for much less than the $10 for the kit.
Maybe one of these will charge a couple flashes (or more?) in parallel?

Someone smarter than me would have to come up with a board layout for home-etching.

Or, use THIS (http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/PS-575/5VDC-11A-SWITCHING-POWER-SUPPLY/1.html) or THIS (http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/PS-537/5VDC-3.7A-SWITCHING-POWER-SUPPLY/-/1.html) for 3 strobes in series.

Or, here's (http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/9079) a 30A supply for big $$

[jmksparks]

John,

Please, do provide a diagram!! And any other info you might have about doing this task.

steve

Look for it this evening, JK.

[bobkeyes]

If anyone is having trouble getting the cameras, let me know. I can get literally hundreds from my daughter's boyfriend. He is a manager at Wall Greens. It will cost you the shipping.

[jmksparks]

John,

Please, do provide a diagram!! And any other info you might have about doing this task.

steve

Not so much as a diagram, instructions will have to do. With the LM317T in front of you ( your reading LM317 ) pin # are from left to right 3 .2. 1. Connect pin 1 direct to negative of where the battery used to be, and your power supply negative. Connect pin 2 direct to the positive of where the batt used to be only. Connect your incoming positive power ( will acept anything from 3v to 32v, but the higher the volt the hotter it will run. ) direct to pin 3. If memory serves right the LM317 will handle 1 1/2 amp, I have piggybacked them for 3amp but not for this application. Try it let me know what you think. Nearly forgot, I am using 5v from a heavy cash register supply, running out to the strobes and for all my other equipment. John.

[rkhanso]

I have a power supply from an old Cisco LS-1010 that can give 5v at 70 amps. I thought I could use this for parallel groups of 3 strobes in series. Not sure how many I can power off the supply, but probably more than I'll use this year (maybe 20 strobes/disposable camera flashes). I did a simple test of 3 in series and get them to charge, but as expected, only 2 charge at a time, until one of them is fired, then the other will charge - basically, the one that is triggered will wait to charge until you trigger another one.

I've only been using a screwdriver shaft on the contacts to get them to trigger. How do I go about setting this up to happen remotely, using Vixen? I'm guessing a SSR-type thing, but don't know how. Yes, I can follow directions and build a SS24, but that doesn't mean I know how it works.

Can anyone give me direction to some directions about how to do this? Get the flash to trigger remotely and have it under the control of Vixen?
I only have SS24 boards (4 of them). No other light controller hardware....that I know of.

[dirknerkle]

I have a power supply from an old Cisco LS-1010 that can give 5v at 70 amps.


HOLY CRAP!!! 70 AMPS?!?!? :shock:

[budude]

HOLY CRAP!!! 70 AMPS?!?!? :shock:

Exactly - - please be sure to use an inline fuse (auto supply for example) of some value (whatever you need plus some "fudge") on your supply line - that sucker will weld stuff really quick...

[rkhanso]

I think this is what I need to do....
Supply the 5v to parallel groups of 3 strobes in series. This is separate from everything else Vixen. This is a constant power applied to the strobes.
What I need Vixen to do is to trigger the strobes, by shorting the 2 contacts to trigger the flash. I could have just one trigger for each group of 3 flashes, (and maybe even more if the flashes discharge/charge at different rates to be more pleasing to the eye, not one big flash by all strobes at the same time). So, there doesn't need to be any power supplied by the Renard SS24 board, just a short circuit applied in fairly rapid succession (maybe 1 per second or more - until the flashes burn up, anyway).
I'm guessing that my SS24 boards won't do this because they output 120v AC...unless I can convert that output in voltage to a short circuit somehow.

[keebler]

I'm guessing that my SS24 boards won't do this because they output 120v AC...unless I can convert that output in voltage to a short circuit somehow.

i have been able to use an ssr board to switch 12 or 24 volts on or off using vixen (it was an experiment and the board is unharmed)).
i don't think the triacs care what voltage they are switching as long as they have the 3~ volts to open the gate.

on the ren 24 board. you may want to confirm with frank or wayne or someone much smarter than me BEFORE ATEMPTING THIS, but it seems that one could remove a portion of the trace between the transformer and the left side 120VAC lead in. then attach another connection right by the transformer (or soldier the ac lines right to the transformer (making sure to get the right 2 pins).
remove a large enough section, to not allow the 120VAC to "jump" to the new line. and use a drop of super glue or canldle wax on the exposed trace ends.
then you can hook 12VDC to the lead in's on both side. (the right side is not affected by the left side 120VAC lead in. so it requires a second conection that can be piggy-backed or daisy chained) making sure to follow polarity.

my thinking is: because it works well enough on the ssr's, i assume it will work on the stand alone boards as well... but like i said CHECK WITH FRANK OR WAYNE or someone much smarter than i before atempting this.

good luck

[Virtus]

I have a power supply from an old Cisco LS-1010 that can give 5v at 70 amps. I thought I could use this for parallel groups of 3 strobes in series. Not sure how many I can power off the supply, but probably more than I'll use this year (maybe 20 strobes/disposable camera flashes). I did a simple test of 3 in series and get them to charge, but as expected, only 2 charge at a time, until one of them is fired, then the other will charge - basically, the one that is triggered will wait to charge until you trigger another one.

I've only been using a screwdriver shaft on the contacts to get them to trigger. How do I go about setting this up to happen remotely, using Vixen? I'm guessing a SSR-type thing, but don't know how. Yes, I can follow directions and build a SS24, but that doesn't mean I know how it works.

Can anyone give me direction to some directions about how to do this? Get the flash to trigger remotely and have it under the control of Vixen?
I only have SS24 boards (4 of them). No other light controller hardware....that I know of.

You can alter your Ren24SS or use a standalone relay and use the output of the 24SS (120VAC) as the trigger to the relay with the short circuit to the camera trigger as the load.

[rkhanso]

A friend of mine said a MOSFET would do the job. He said that the Drain-Source resistance can vary from hundreds of K ohms (or more) to nearly 0. I would just need to find a suitable MOSFET to use. Since I really have no load to speak of (using it as a short circuit between the SW pins (see picture below) - could I get by with a cheap BS270 (17 cents)?

Could it be this simple? Have the Grinch's channel output connected to a MOSFET and then the output of it act as an open and short between the SW connections on the board below?

http://web.olpdsl.net/firegod/DIY/STROBE/BARE_BOARD.jpg

And something like this - but just remove the LED in the schematic and put the SW leads in place of it....

http://brunningsoftware.co.uk/Pictures/U-fig10.jpg

I'm wondering if the resistors would really be needed in my case. I see that the 1k resistor is probably limiting current to the LED so that's not needed, but what about the 1M resistor?

[NogginBoink]

From the photo, it appears that SW2+ and SW2- are the battery contacts, not the contacts that trigger the flash (these contacts are typically wired to the shutter assembly).

I'm no expert at analog circuits, but the schematic you present shows a +5V rail. I doubt that +5V exists anywhere in a disposable camera flash circuit.

[rkhanso]

To get the flash to fire, I was just shorting my screwdriver shaft across the 2 SW terminals. I stole the picture so the SW- and SW+ were not put on there by me. As I was using a scredriver and saw no sparks when shorting them (I know, not a high-tech test) across to flash the strobe - but maybe my eyes were still blinded by the light. The battery contacts are on the right side of the picture, negative over the flash tube and positive in the upper right corner.

I agree that the 5v is not likely on the camera anywhere, nor do I think I want it to be input into the 2 terminals to flash the strobe...

I sent an email to my friend (electrical engineer) to see if he could help me out a bit more...otherwise, it may be relay time.

Will post again after I fail or succeed - to aid the next guy.

[budude]

(bump)

So - - does anyone have a working setup using these camera strobes? On a whim, I was in my local CVS and asked them for any cameras and she gave me about 30 or so. I'm looking at a new project for next year...

[Photovor]

I had a test going inside, but I was seriously 15 minutes to putting them outside when I decided that I didn't want to have to worry about running more cable. Will I maybe fit it in here in a week... we'll see.

[budude]

(rebump)

I'm curious about the setup you were using Photovor. You said you put 8 of these inline with 12vdc but does that really equate to 1.5V across the leads of each flash unit? I like your setup if it actually works though - I got my hands on a bunch of 12v supplies (>10A) and at least 40 flash units (so far). It seems like there's two main players - Kodak and Fuji. I like the Fuji brand as the units are smaller than the Kodak ones. The store brands look to be rebranded versions of the Kodak/Fuji versions in most cases. I want to get these ready for Halloween and possibly July 4th...

[David_AVD]

Powering these strobe units in series is not a good solution. It may work for some experimental purposes, but I wouldn't rely on it for longer term use.

There's no way to ensure all series units will share the 12V nicely as there will be variations even for boards of the same type.

The ones that charge faster will stop drawing current, then the voltage across those ones will rise to levels that may cause damage after a few cycles. This is especially true when the strobes are not all triggered at once.

A 1.5V power supply shouldn't be too hard to do. What you do need to find out is how much current they draw from a 1.5V supply. The peak current will be near the start of the charging cycle more than likely.

[Cheater]

I dont think it probably matters too much.
If you cant supply enough current then limit it and they will simply charge slower.

You could also probably do the reverse as well - make them charge faster off a high amp source (to a extent)

[David_AVD]

You have to be careful with circuits like those camera flashes. They're very basic and more than likely have no real regulation of the HV capacitor charging. Powering them from more than 1.5V may cause over-voltage of the storage capacitor and let the magic smoke out. :)

A simple regulator using an LM317T should be good to power a few units. At least that way you'd be sure to get the correct charge on all units.

[IdunBenhad]

Hi:
There is an Instructables detailing this.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Minty-Strobe/

I think there also was one detailing an emergency strobe for using on the road in case of car trouble.

I have played with this, also. I was able to use a K74 relay board to trigger the strobe and also played with lowering the value of the flash capacitor to get a faster recycle rate. The flash capacitor is the large one rated at 200 vdc or higher. You can put 2 of them in series, thus halving the effective capacitance. The charge rate is then faster, but I can't remember just how fast. I think the light output was probably the same, but I didn't have anything to measure it with except my calibrated eyeball!

They're fun, but you can be in for a shocking experience if you're not careful! AND, don't exceed the 1.5 vdc battery voltage. You'll let the smoke out of the transistor!

[kychristmas]

My niece is a Pharmacy Manager at Walgreens. She checked for me and at least in our area, all of the Walgreens sell them to a company that recycles them.

Has anyone had any luck with other stores?

[bobkeyes]

Kelly,

I got about 50 from a Walgreens in Lexington. Didn't seem to be a problem.

[budude]

I got my first batch at CVS (used to be Longs) but it's time for another run or seven... If all else it's a cheap (read free!) way to load up on good AA/AAA Alkaline batteries!

[iconrl]

Any chance someone will make a how-to for dummies on the wiki?
Also, which controller would work best with these? I might build one just for use with these.
Thanks

[budude]

I've collected 100 strobes now - and there's basically 3 camps - Fuji, Kodak and Other. I don't bother with the "Other" which appear to be a slight mod of the Kodak units - they only account for 2-3% of what I collected anyway. As it turns out, I have exactly 50 of each at this point. I tried connecting the 8 in series with a 12vdc source as mentioned - but ran into the issue also mentioned several times and that is the first one or two units will charge up but the next ones just sit there so I'm going to look at a 1.5 power supply and power them in parallel.

I don't want to eat up a couple hundred channels (plan is for 200+) triggering these so I'm looking at using a DMX receiver (maybe Renard/DMX code on 16F688) in the equation and use the intensity level to trigger any/all of 8 strobes from a single channel. In other words, I would match the bits from the intensity level (which will make sequencing all the more fun...) and then set an external register/latch with the appropriate bits and that would trigger the appropriate strobe. I'm thinking also maybe using a specific intensity to the actual strobe so that they can be armed first and then all set off at once. The timing might get a little tricky but I'm not expecting to be setting these off that much...

This would support 64 strobes in matrix fashion yet only consume 8 channels. I haven't decided what I would use for the output trigger mechanism - relays seem a bit much. As I recall, one end of the trigger switch is connected to either the + or Gnd side of the battery so the output of the latch might work as sink/source with the proper limit resistor. dunno - - still have to work on that part...

I still like the big bag of batteries I got out of the deal too!

[Josh]

How exactly do you ask them for these? I asked at a local store, and they looked at me a little funny, and said they couldn't give them to me. I plan to use them for halloween, and also just for spot flash's in photography.

[budude]

How exactly do you ask them for these? I asked at a local store, and they looked at me a little funny, and said they couldn't give them to me. I plan to use them for halloween, and also just for spot flash's in photography.

I just asked! I've been to the two CVS's near me and both just handed over everything they had. I kind of explain that I use the strobes for Christmas decorating etc and they give you that funny look as usual but they've given them to me every time (even with different folks each time). Most come apart pretty easy - the Fuji's take a bit more time. Just be sure you short out the cap with a screwdriver cuz those suckers will sit at 200+ volts for quite a while (almost all I've popped apart give me a little "light show" when I short em out...

[Skunberg]

I dont think it probably matters too much.
If you cant supply enough current then limit it and they will simply charge slower.

You could also probably do the reverse as well - make them charge faster off a high amp source (to a extent)

This is what FireGod did. He was after a firecracker string effect.

[Jrd]

Any chance someone will make a how-to for dummies on the wiki?
Also, which controller would work best with these? I might build one just for use with these.
Thanks

You can search www.instructables.com for instructions on how to make various styles of strobes from disposable cameras. You can get enough information to make the circuit usable and then after that you can decide how to use it.

[marble42]

found theses little screw top containers that were the right size for the strobe after i took off the copper leads and added wires. Hot glued a four pin connector in the side and screw top makes it water proof.

[budude]

found theses little screw top containers that were the right size for the strobe after i took off the copper leads and added wires. Hot glued a four pin connector in the side and screw top makes it water proof.

Clever! Where did you find the containers? Did you also hot glue the strobe lense to the container top? I wonder if a piece of clear vinyl tape or something could be put over the square hole to seal that up?

[marble42]

found them in skycraft here in orlando for .65 each. they are hot glued to the bottom and there is no hole. Painted the inside of the container but masked of where the lens would be.The top can still come off but once it is in place it is water proof.

[budude]

found them in skycraft here in orlando for .65 each. they are hot glued to the bottom and there is no hole. Painted the inside of the container but masked of where the lens would be.The top can still come off but once it is in place it is water proof.

Ahhhh - - even cleverererer... It looked like a hole in the pictures - got it now... :rolleyes:

[yvaliente]

found theses little screw top containers that were the right size for the strobe after i took off the copper leads and added wires. Hot glued a four pin connector in the side and screw top makes it water proof.

Would you please post a step by step wiring and which light controller you are going to use to trigger the strobe?

:?


Thanks
yvaliente

[aususer]

I tried connecting the 8 in series with a 12vdc source as mentioned - but ran into the issue also mentioned several times and that is the first one or two units will charge up but the next ones just sit there so I'm going to look at a 1.5 power supply and power them in parallel.


Just wandering in here thinking about what I was going to do with my 50-odd flashes... I was thinking.. why not "invest" the AA/AAA battery savings you've made into buying some LM317 regulators..
handful of components and - depending on the charge current (haven't tested this - all theory), simply push the 1.5V from the 12V..

Hard wire this circuit (http://www.eleccircuit.com/lm317-linear-power-supply-regulator-selector-15v3v45v5v6v9v-15a/) for 1.5V and either make one for each flash - or one "big-un" and run all the flashes in parallel (watch the current of course ;)

Just a thought

[aususer]

Oh yea.. and there is another thread here somewhere about this.. but what about considering "potting" the flashes into a christmas-tree/star/santa/etc mold?

I'm looking for something small enough to fit the flash into, yet large enough to be stable. Wire the VCC/GND/Flashtrigger wires. Drop the whole thing into the mold and pour fibreglass resin over it all..

Its well waterproof - heavy enough to be stable - vandal proof.. etc.

Bury the flash internally and the resin should be opaque enough to dissipate the flash light into a pretty cool effect. You could even try colour the resin to fit nicer into your display - and maybe just leave the flash lens pointing out.

2cents for what its worth.
Mike

[budude]

Just wandering in here thinking about what I was going to do with my 50-odd flashes... I was thinking.. why not "invest" the AA/AAA battery savings you've made into buying some LM317 regulators..
handful of components and - depending on the charge current (haven't tested this - all theory), simply push the 1.5V from the 12V..

Hard wire this circuit (http://www.eleccircuit.com/lm317-linear-power-supply-regulator-selector-15v3v45v5v6v9v-15a/)for 1.5V and either make one for each flash - or one "big-un" and run all the flashes in parallel (watch the current of course ;)

Just a thought

Yep - pretty much where I was going really - I've seen an even simpler circuit with the just the LM317 and a single current limit resistor in the output loop. If you connect the output direct to adjust I think it defaults to 1.25 or so volts so the resistor (low value - don't recall off-hand) is in there to reduce the output current (1.25v/R I suppose). It doesn't get much simpler than that! I haven't measured the current draw on one of these as it charges so that will tell me how many I can run. Just hope I have time to get to these beasties with everything else - man - it's April already?!?! :rolleyes:

[bigvic]

l haven't, but u can make exellent and cheap strobes from 1w leds. l used a small 8 pin pic to control the flash rate and also the flash intensity. they come in different colors and are all very bright. It fits onto a little board 25mm square and l fitted it into a small plastic box also about 25mm square which l found on ebay. Just connect to a 1amp 5v regulated power supply and off u go. This power supply will power about 15-20 strobes. These units cost about $5 each to build

[kkmm]

Can you make a How to on this BigVic

[bigvic]

kkmm
if u want to pm me , l am also in melbourne and then we can talk meanwhile l will attempt to do a how to on my strobes.

[bradjones]

I have completed something similar to Bigvic's suggestion but without the PIC per strobe. I wanted the capability to strobe with my sequences and settled on using high powered leds. The 500mW strawhat leds gave a great effect at a wide viewing angle (I think they where 140degrees).

I have attached some picys of the prototype, boxes and a final board. The boards that are 25x25mm in size fitted perfectly in the perspex boxes that are 30x30x30mm and are cheap.

x60 Boxes $50
x25 Boards $10
x50 Strawhat Leds 500mW $30

I used a constant current circuit utilizing the good old LM317, which gave me the ability to use many leds in series if required (up to the source voltage) and an input voltage up to 40v (I run both 12 and 24v strings). The only reason I have used two leds is because at 24v I was dropping 21v across the reg and it got a little hot even though its heatsinked when constantly on (2 leds dropped the volts to around 18v).

Sequencing was simple with vixen as each strobe used a channel and the random effect is very quick to use.

Ill be running 30 of these this year.

BJ

[yvaliente]

Hi BJ i am aking this only because a am very NOOB at this.

would you provide the BOM

I see a

1 small circuit board
2 - 500mW strawhat leds
1 - LM317
the rest ????

Thanks and maybe a quick pencil sketch how you have connected them?

Thanks=


I have completed something similar to Bigvic's suggestion but without the PIC per strobe. I wanted the capability to strobe with my sequences and settled on using high powered leds. The 500mW strawhat leds gave a great effect at a wide viewing angle (I think they where 140degrees).

I have attached some picys of the prototype, boxes and a final board. The boards that are 25x25mm in size fitted perfectly in the perspex boxes that are 30x30x30mm and are cheap.

x60 Boxes $50
x25 Boards $10
x50 Strawhat Leds 500mW $30

I used a constant current circuit utilizing the good old LM317, which gave me the ability to use many leds in series if required (up to the source voltage) and an input voltage up to 40v (I run both 12 and 24v strings). The only reason I have used two leds is because at 24v I was dropping 21v across the reg and it got a little hot even though its heatsinked when constantly on (2 leds dropped the volts to around 18v).

Sequencing was simple with vixen as each strobe used a channel and the random effect is very quick to use.

Ill be running 30 of these this year.

BJ

[budude]

Could you provide a video of them in operation in the dark? I want to be sure to get a true strobe effect and if these will do it then I'll dump the camera strobes. I have a bunch of DCSSRs that I was planning to reuse for different projects and this could be one of them.

[bradjones]

Ill scan a circuit diagram tomorrow. Im not sure about the video, the file was 4M in size at the lowest resolution. Ill try converting to other formats.

BJ

[Jrd]

4MB will easily fit on Youtube and should easily fit on Vimeo too. So I don't see the problem.

---

How do you guys ask for used disposable cameras? What do you say?

[bradjones]

I was not sure ho I would go, my first post on youtube. I put two videos up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQGlPlb7EPU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSSqdgTPRQQ

Im assuming this is the way to do it. The second one is a bit short, sorry about that, but you get the idea. :D

I did a quick sketch of the circuit, the 1n4001 diode is only a protection device in-case I did something stupid and throw full wave un-rectified AC at them. These are running on "unfiltered" full wave bridge rectified 24v and dim very well.

BJ

[51fordf2]

Brad - looks GREAT!!!

Any chance at a link, to the strawhats you used?

EDIT: Found some on ebay....are these close?

Strawhat 500mw leds (http://desc.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=500+mw+strawhat&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=See-All-Categories&_okw=500+mw+strawhat&_oexkw=&LH_TitleDesc=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_ftrt=901&_ftrv=1&_sabdlo=&_sabdhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=200&_fpos=Zip+code&_fsct=&LH_SALE_CURRENCY=0&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_rdc=1)

If so, LOT'S of different colors - maybe a few people would like to go in, and get 3 or 4 colors, and "mix and match", instead of having to buy a lot of one color?

Thanks,

R

[LabRat]

An excellent alternative solution. I was considering LED's harvested from old cellphone/camera flashes, but I think your solution is better for consistency of sourcing the parts.

Where did you get the boxes? (and do you think they can be sealed to be weather resistant?

[budude]

An excellent alternative solution. I was considering LED's harvested from old cellphone/camera flashes, but I think your solution is better for consistency of sourcing the parts.

Where did you get the boxes? (and do you think they can be sealed to be weather resistant?

Agreed - - not 100% the same as a strobe but probably close enough - and easier to manage than a pile of old camera strobes (besides lasting longer as well).

[bradjones]

Roger, yes they are the leds I used, I had considered doing RGB versions but I could not get them to fit into the cubes.

Labrat, the boxes are available here:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/12X-Transparent-Plexiglass-Display-Cubic-Case-3cm_W0QQitemZ250612831569QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Jew ellery_Boxes_Supplies?hash=item3a59b05551

They are almost sealed, the tops just push on so I put a thin line of silicone around the edge to hold on (where would we be without silicone? :) ). BTW, they are designed to be stacked and have little pushon tabs and knoby bits moulded into them.

To deploy into the display Im proposing to silicone a magnet on the bottom "a rare earth type for strength" so I can attach to gutters/poles/etc or fishing wire strands of zinc plated washers in my mega tree.
Has anyone got any other ideas on how to mount?

BJ

[Jrd]

To deploy into the display Im proposing to silicone a magnet on the bottom "a rare earth type for strength" so I can attach to gutters/poles/etc or fishing wire strands of zinc plated washers in my mega tree.
Has anyone got any other ideas on how to mount?

You have steel gutters?

You may need to use zip-ties(or string, etc) to attach the wire nearby otherwise your magnets may not be strong enough.
Have you thought about using velcro straps? Something like this. (http://www.officemax.com/catalog/sku.jsp?skuId=20822371&cm_mmc=GBase-_-Office%20Supplies-_-Tape,%20Glue,%20and%20Adhesives-_-Tape&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=20822371) You could hot glue these to the back of the lights and you could still attach your magnet to the other side of the strap.

[dirknerkle]

I did a quick sketch of the circuit, the 1n4001 diode is only a protection device in-case I did something stupid and throw full wave un-rectified AC at them. These are running on "unfiltered" full wave bridge rectified 24v and dim very well.

BJ

The original posted circuit didn't work for me -- or I didn't read it right. The LM317's data sheet had a different example using different pins, and built a prototype seemed to work although it was entirely different. Tested with 12vdc and it's nice and bright. This one inputs +12v to pin 2 so it seems like it's backwards!

EDIT: BRAD'S ORIGINAL CIRCUIT IS CORRECT.

[David_AVD]

The circuit bradjones posted is indeed correct. (I've used the same design myself many times) I'm not sure how your one posted above works, as you're feeding voltage into the OUT terminal!

[n1ist]

Looking at the internal schematic of the LM317, that can't be right. You will get some current flow due to some internal protect diodes, but that bypasses the regulator.

Note that the pinout of the regulator IS dependent on the package. It seems that in all cases, the tab or mount is tied to the output; that's pin 2 on a TO220 but pin 3 on a TO3.

The resistor needs to go between Vadj and Vout, and Vin should be more positive than Vout. Since the regulator and resistor form a two-terminal current source, the LEDs can go on either side.
/mike

[dirknerkle]

Here's the schematic from page 5 of the LM317 data sheet, and the data sheet itself. All I know is that when I tried the original schematic, I got one flash and then it was dead. After reworking it per the schematic below (which more closely matches Brad's original), it flashes fine. Could it be that there's a problem with the data sheet? Somebody set me straight 'cuz I'm confused!!!

EDIT: DO NOT USE THIS DRAWING AS AN AID TO HELP DESIGN A CIRCUIT WITH THE LM317.

[mschell]

Dirk,
In your earlier diagram, the voltage in is going to pin 2, but the words "In" and "Out" are reversed. So I think that it all is in agreement, but the labeling is wrong.

On the data sheet, there's even some confusion, in that the schematics say pin 2 is input, pin 3 is output, but when the package layout is shown, it says pin 3 is input and pin 2 is output but the tab is tied to pin 3 in the TO-220?

Crazy...

[dirknerkle]

I KNOW!!! IT'S CRAZY!!! The data sheet says one thing but the examples say another. The schematic I posted was made on ExpressPCB software, and when you pull up the LM317 component, that's what it puts on the screen. But it's in direct conflict with the data sheet.

It didn't make any sense to me at all. When I follow the supposed pin assignments, I get one flash and then deadsville. When I follow the examples it works, but it's completely illogical for what the data sheet says the pins are.

I remember having this problem once before with the LM317 and it's one reason why I've stayed away from it -- something's not right.

Checking with a VOM, the back plate is tied to pin 2, the middle pin.

I find it extremely weird that all the examples in the data sheet have Vi on pin 2. I'm beginning to think the data sheet pin descriptions are wrong.

EDIT: THE DRAWINGS IN THE CURRENT ST DATA SHEET ARE MISLEADING - DO NOT USE THEM.

[budude]

I do recall a post by someone that specifically said you had to run it backwards for this to work - - it might even be in this thread somewhere...

Here's one of them: http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showpost.php?p=87265&postcount=26
I think I've seen it elsewhere as well - no claim as to whether it works but the poster seemed to indicate it did.

[David_AVD]

The data sheets from both National Semiconductor and SGS show pin 3 as the input. The SGS data sheet does indeed have pins 2 and 3 transposed on the example on page 5, but the actual pinout data on page 1 (2?) is correct.

I just checked my schematic and PCB layout for an LED project and it agrees with the bradjones version, not the dirknerkle one.

[dirknerkle]

Okay, now I'm really confused. The National datasheet makes perfect sense to me, and it's a match for Brad's circuit. And that's good.

But this is making no sense whatsoever to me. I know I'm over 60 and my brain is a bit fried... but bear with me...

I do not understand why when I use Brad's circuit, I get one flash and the 317 goes dead. I've tried it with 3 different 317's on three different occasions, and I get the same result every time. Since doing the same thing multiple times and expecting a different result is the very definition of insanity, I decided to try it differently, hence the circuit I put together. When I connect it the way I've specified, it works perfectly.

Just for fun (aka insanity revisited), I made a proto-board layout of the National datasheet design again. Fired it up. Flash. Dead.

I'm using LM317Ts from ST electronics. Is is possible they make them differently or I've got a bad batch with reversed pins? Is it possible I have a bunch of chips that are marked wrong? This is soooooo strange....

EDIT: THIS IS ME CONTINUING TO BE STUPID. BRAD'S CIRCUIT IS FINE>

[David_AVD]

I've been away from the forum for a while and may have missed something. Are you using this constant current circuit to drive a string of LEDs?

Can you post a sketch of the complete circuit including LEDs please?

[dirknerkle]

I've been away from the forum for a while and may have missed something. Are you using this constant current circuit to drive a string of LEDs?

Can you post a sketch of the complete circuit including LEDs please?

It's posted back in this thread as post #80, in the black circle. That's the one that works.

EDIT: THE CIRCUIT AND PHOTO WERE REMOVED TO PREVENT CONFUSION.

[jmksparks]

I do recall a post by someone that specifically said you had to run it backwards for this to work - - it might even be in this thread somewhere...

Here's one of them: http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showpost.php?p=87265&postcount=26
I think I've seen it elsewhere as well - no claim as to whether it works but the poster seemed to indicate it did.

You may be talking about me, I run the LM317 backwards, as in my case 5v goes to the out pin 1.4 approx comes out (the in) pin and feeds the camera strobe circuit. Charge turnround time is approx 3 seconds. I am at work at the moment if you need my diagram for the LM317 just say yes.

[David_AVD]

Oops, you're right. Dunno why I didn't see that!

I think the only reason yours works is the 330R resistor is limiting the current enough. Have you measured the actual supply current with different input voltages? What voltage did you do your testing with?

Actually, the 330R resistor would set the current at about 4mA. Is that what you wanted? If you were looking for something like 45mA, a 27R resistor would be correct.

EDIT: Looking again, it's not just Vin & Vout that are reversed in your diagram. Vadj is wrong too! The idea is to have Vout supplying the LED via the resistor. The Vadj pin monitors the voltage (LED current) and regulates that way.

[dirknerkle]

Oops, you're right. Dunno why I didn't see that!

I think the only reason yours works is the 330R resistor is limiting the current enough. Have you measured the actual supply current with different input voltages? What voltage did you do your testing with?

Actually, the 330R resistor would set the current at about 4mA. Is that what you wanted? If you were looking for something like 45mA, a 27R resistor would be correct.

EDIT: Looking again, it's not just Vin & Vout that are reversed in your diagram. Vadj is wrong too! The idea is to have Vout supplying the LED via the resistor. The Vadj pin monitors the voltage (LED current) and regulates that way.

Thanks, David. I understand what you're saying, and when I put this together it went against all my instincts -- I had tried the other way without success and I thought, "Well, the diagram shows it this way. Let's try that and see what happens" and, well, it worked right away.

I'm using a 12v battery for power (since it was handy) and my plan was to provide 12vdc to all these strobes through Cat5 cable. I currently don't have a way to measure current flow at the present time... my son's dog...well, it's not exactly "the dog ate my homework" story but it's more of a "did you know that French bulldogs like electronic testers as chew toys?" kind of story. Ever try to get something out of a 70 pound bulldog's mouth when he doesn't want to give it up?

Anyway, I may have hit on a combination that "works" although it's not necessarily the right way to go about it. I'm still confused though, because in my pea-brain way of thinking, putting voltage onto an output pin is just wrong and shouldn't work at all.

[David_AVD]

The reason that your circuit works is more than likely due to the internal protection structure of the LM317. I suspect if you just used the 330R in series with the LEDs and 12V (and delete the LM317), you'd get the same result!

Your board has pin 3 feeding the LEDs. The page 5 diagram from SGS show it should be pin 1. I think that's where you're going wrong.

I encourage you to try it again with a new LM317. Post the layout (or a picture of the actual wiring) before you power it up and we'll check it for you.

[dirknerkle]

The reason that your circuit works is more than likely due to the internal protection structure of the LM317. I suspect if you just used the 330R in series with the LEDs and 12V (and delete the LM317), you'd get the same result!

Your board has pin 3 feeding the LEDs. The page 5 diagram from SGS show it should be pin 1. I think that's where you're going wrong.

I encourage you to try it again with a new LM317. Post the layout (or a picture of the actual wiring) before you power it up and we'll check it for you.

Thanks for your kind help. I think I see where the illogic of what I was doing hit the fan... still surprized that it worked, though! I'll give it another shot...

[David_AVD]

I think people assume that the OUT pin of the LM317 should always go straight to the load. For an LM317 wired as a constant voltage regulator this is the case, but for a CC regulator, the load is via a resistor. It does appear an odd concept if you don't know how the regulator works internally.

[dirknerkle]

I think my confusion was caused by the examples in the ST data sheet (see the picture of the standard 317 regulator from the ST data sheet). It seems to me that the datasheet lists the pins incorrectly. None of the other data sheets from National or TI show pin numbers -- only input, output and adjust and related circuits and had I used them instead, I would have been much better off. The ST sheet adds pin numbers and I believe that they're wrong at worst, and misleading at best.

[n1ist]

The 317 regulator works by adjusting the output voltage so that it is 1.25V above Vadj. To use it as a constant voltage regulator, you use a voltage divider on the output that feeds back to Vadj so that the desired output (say 9V) gets divided down to 1.25V on Vadj.

For a constant current regulator, we stick a resistor between Vout and Vadj. Ohm's law tells us that the current through the resistor is 1.25/R and by wiring the load between the Vadj end of the resistor and ground, the load current will be the same (neglecting any current into Vadj).

By the way, the same trick will work with a fixed regulator like a 7805, using the regulator's "ground" pin in place of Vadj. In real life, you wouldn't want to go this route since you will waste more power in the resistor, and you would need a higher voltage to overcome the regulator's headroom and 5V drop.

As for the package; I think all tabbed packages have the center pin (pin 2) connected to the tab. The TO3 (and probably TO66 as well) numbers the pins 1 and 2, and the body is 3. I just looked at a number of 317 data sheets; all except the ST one seem to agree. ST has the normal pinout on the first page, but all of the examples are for the TO3 pinout. I just submitted a request to ST to have them either change the examples to use the more standard pin numbers (who uses a TO3 these days?) or eliminate them like everyone else does.

/mike

[ukewarrior]

So,
Which of the schematics in this thread are correct?

It seems to me we are trying to create a 1.5v Constant current source to simulate the AA battery normally in camera.

Correct?

[Matt_Edwards]

So,
Which of the schematics in this thread are correct?

It seems to me we are trying to create a 1.5v Constant current source to simulate the AA battery normally in camera.

Correct?

No. these discussion of late have gone over to using LEDS. Really should be in a new thread.

[Jrd]

Maybe this thread could be split into a new thread around post #69 maybe title it "LED Strobes".

[dirknerkle]

Okay. Here's the bottom line:

You can't fix stupid. And I got a huge case of it today.

Stupid #1 was caused by the ST data sheet confusion. So I get a little break on that one... I'm not sure whether I learned anything there other than unfortunately to be a bit skeptical about data sheet contents when examples don't match, and to consult a secondary data sheet (if one is available).

On to stupid #2...

For some reason, I had it in my head that an 8 or 9 or 10 ohm resistor was just not going to cut enough current. My mentality (or lack thereof) was "needs a bigger resistor" such as 330 or 750 or maybe even 1K because cutting current to an LED is normally done that way. It just wasn't sinking in that the LM317 is doing the cutting by virtue of the adjustment, and the larger the resistor, the LESS cutting it's going to do, not more.

So I apologize to all concerned, and especially to Brad -- the circuit does indeed work properly when you use a resistor that is of the proper value. :oops:

I will now go back to various postings and make some corrections so others don't go down the same path I've been today.

[marble42]

getting back to the camera flash as a strobe has anyone come up with a way to make them work?

[Jrd]

getting back to the camera flash as a strobe has anyone come up with a way to make them work?

Many have, most recently, Marble42 see here (http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showpost.php?p=111397&postcount=58). You can also read over this topic (http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8639) or search Instructables.

[DIY Guy]

Not to drag this even further OT (somebody start a LED strobe thread! I just happened to stumble on this as I am not interested in camera strobes), but is there a way to randomize the LED firing so you could have several in parallel?

eg the Ren48LSD will handle 600ma, so say you paralleled five of the twin strawhat strobes. Is there a simple way to randomize the flashing other than going with a 555 and all that jazz.

Something similar to when fluorescent starters are used to blink an AC circuit.

[budude]

eg the Ren48LSD will handle 600ma, so say you paralleled five of the twin strawhat strobes. Is there a simple way to randomize the flashing other than going with a 555 and all that jazz.

Clarification - the Ren48LSD is only spec'd/tested to 360mA per output - the transistors used have a maximum current rating of 600mA so I would not run it that high since they are free-air standing as well...

[DIY Guy]

Clarification - the Ren48LSD is only spec'd/tested to 360mA per output - the transistors used have a maximum current rating of 600mA so I would not run it that high since they are free-air standing as well...

You should have been an attorney.

I, on the other hand, should have been a test pilot. I will let you know how your board performs under extreme conditions :)

[dlovely]

you should have been an attorney.

I, on the other hand, should have been a test pilot. I will let you know how your board performs under extreme conditions :)

lol!

[dirknerkle]

Clarification - the Ren48LSD is only spec'd/tested to 360mA per output - the transistors used have a maximum current rating of 600mA so I would not run it that high since they are free-air standing as well...

Sounds like a small fan could help in extreme cases? Sure wouldn't be hard to put one alongside the board to help keep those trannysisters cooler...

[budude]

Sounds like a small fan could help in extreme cases? Sure wouldn't be hard to put one alongside the board to help keep those trannysisters cooler...

Maybe - possibly - just saying - - anything beyond what I spec'd/tested - and you are on your own...