24 or 16 channels

[olingerjccj]

Hello all,

This will be my 1st attempt at animated. to do list build the renard, sequence songs, lay out my lights. Would you all start with the 16 channel or just go for the 24 channel.

Thanks
John

[g2ktcf]

this late, you need as few channels as possible...however, there is not much difference between to two except $$$

[51fordf2]

If you get the 24, you can only use 16, if you decide to. If you get the 16, you can't decide to use 24...

R

[g2ktcf]

If you get the 24, you can only use 16, if you decide to. If you get the 16, you can't decide to use 24...

R

Well Said Roger!!!

[olingerjccj]

this late, you need as few channels as possible...however, there is not much difference between to two except $$$


I know I am super late but the animated bug has totally got me. 8 more channels would give me a bit more flexablity, but a bit more to sequence.

John

[rokkett]

I just finished my first and I went with the SS24. I had soldered before and know a little (very little) about electrical - so I went for the most ports.

If you are completely new to this - maybe go as low as an SS8 so you can keep it simple, keep the cost down, and see a successful result quickly.

But the price per port drops as you move up the line - so...

Some things to consider that I am now tackling:

If all of your ports a located in one location - you will have to pull electrical back to the controller.

If you have them spread out, multiple "area" controllers would be electrically simpler. Just a single communication line to each area rather than many electrical lines fanning out from a central controller.

I am think about building two SS8 next for the right and left side of my front porch. And using the SS24 to control a mega tree and/or a grouping of smaller trees. (After watching everyone's videos - may SS16s? :)

So maybe have more ports in each area then is really required so I can adapt quickly?

Probably just the one controller this year - the wife is really starting look closely at my new toys... :rolleyes:

[dirknerkle]

Some things to consider that I am now tackling:

If all of your ports a located in one location - you will have to pull electrical back to the controller.

If you have them spread out, multiple "area" controllers would be electrically simpler. Just a single communication line to each area rather than many electrical lines fanning out from a central controller.

Probably just the one controller this year - the wife is really starting look closely at my new toys... :rolleyes:


Yep, you're hooked.

As you string cables here and there, remember to use GCFI outlets or at least GCFI protection on your circuits. There are many threads here at DIYC about GCFI and reading them ought to be a requirement for getting into this hobby.

Electricity is very, very fast... and it's generally non-selective on what beings it affects if given the chance. Unfortunately, in the realm of Christmas lighting, the electrical voltages and currents involved can be lethal.

A MERRY Christmas is also a SAFE Christmas!!!

[g2ktcf]

I know I am super late but the animated bug has totally got me. 8 more channels would give me a bit more flexablity, but a bit more to sequence.

John


actually "more to sequence" is a help here at these numbers. its easier o sequence 24 channels as you have options. When you get beyond a 100 channels is when the sequencing gets really tough.

and it seems you have the C.L.A.P. already D:

[budude]

I'm not super familiar with the RenSS line - - but is there any issue with partially populating the board? In other words, buy a 24 but only populate 8 or 16 channels to save costs? I would think that might be OK but can't say for sure. This would set you up for next year ('cuz you WILL be adding more channels...) and you would just need to buy additional parts for it.

[Wayne J]

I'm not super familiar with the RenSS line - - but is there any issue with partially populating the board? In other words, buy a 24 but only populate 8 or 16 channels to save costs? I would think that might be OK but can't say for sure. This would set you up for next year ('cuz you WILL be adding more channels...) and you would just need to buy additional parts for it.

You could, but I highly recommend against it. One would be asking for trouble IMO. You do a partial board, put it out for the season, moisture finds it's way to the board, empty pads get a oxidation layer on them, then when new components are to be placed, soldering just got more difficult for those who are new to soldering. I just think that is a bad idea personally. Fully populated and tested 100% is best bet. ;)

(Again, just my opinion :cool: )

[dirknerkle]

I'm not super familiar with the RenSS line - - but is there any issue with partially populating the board? In other words, buy a 24 but only populate 8 or 16 channels to save costs? I would think that might be OK but can't say for sure. This would set you up for next year ('cuz you WILL be adding more channels...) and you would just need to buy additional parts for it.

There isn't a lot to be saved on an SS24 board by populating only channels 1-8 and leaving the others open. We're talking about $3 for two PIC16F688 chips, $6 for 12 more MOC3023 chips, about $1 for resistors, maybe another $9 for triacs and $4 for terminal blocks. It would probably work with only channels 1-8, but you might as well just build it right and use only the few channels you need. It's kind of like deciding whether you need all the windows on a car -- it'll run without them, but why not just put 'em in anyway?

At least that's my $.02 worth...;)

[budude]

My point is that if you are on a budget and are looking at a Ren8, perhaps look at a Ren24 and you'd only be paying for the extra PCB difference. That way when you are ready to spend more $ next year, you just need to buy the parts and don't have to get another enclosure, etc. The Ren8's are nice little controllers - but let's face it 99% of us outgrow them after year 1 (yes - I realize you can still use it in addition to your other Rens).

anyway - just a thought...

[rokkett]

Yep, you're hooked.

As you string cables here and there, remember to use GCFI...
......
...A MERRY Christmas is also a SAFE Christmas!!!

I don't want to thread jack here - but yes - I will be running new GCFI circuits dedicated to the light display. Little reminders like this are what makes sites like this successful... :)

[WireWrap]

Good Crap Fails Intermittantly

which is why you need

Ground Fault Circuit Interruptors

Getting the acronyms right makes searching SO much better.


Who, me? Cynical??? Naaaahhhhhhh! Couldn't be!!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


.

[dirknerkle]

Good Crap Fails Intermittantly

which is why you need

Ground Fault Circuit Interruptors

Getting the acronyms right makes searching SO much better.


Who, me? Cynical??? Naaaahhhhhhh! Couldn't be!!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


.


ARGHHHH!!! SOMEBODY MUST HAVE SWITCHED THE KEYS ON MY KEYBOARD!!!
(Uh....nope... just can't get my fat fingers to work right sometimes.... well, most of the time...:rolleyes: Thanks for the correction!!)
-dave

[bmcgeeny]

Hello all,

This will be my 1st attempt at animated. to do list build the renard, sequence songs, lay out my lights. Would you all start with the 16 channel or just go for the 24 channel.

Thanks
John

I started with 320

[WireWrap]

...
Would you all start with the 16 channel or just go for the 24 channel.

Thanks
John

You've asked the WRONG question for this group of Clark Griswold fans. As our hero, Tim-the-Toolman Taylor says so eloquently:

MORE POWER!!!

Once you're hooked, you will never have too many channels. I can almost guarantee if you start with 16, as you are sequencing, you'll think of another place for "just one more string" and you'll want a channel for it.

But either way, you're in for a lot of work/fun/headaches/triumphs.

Welcome, John!!!


.

[rstehle]

I started with 320

IMHO, you should start small and grow. I started with a lot too, and the sequencing is a B _ _ _ H! (Not to mention trying to properly hook up over 300 channels............ OMG)
Just my .02

[51fordf2]

I started out with a lot of channels, but I think the number of channels, depends more on the number of "groups" of lights that you plan to use. For example, I have 16 windows that face the street. I will be using 4 colors of lights on each window. So, that's 64 channels, if I control each color by itself, on each window. Which is what I am doing. If I wanted to do all 4 colors together on each window, on a channel (might as well have multis!), I could get away with 16 channels. Or, I could run each color independent, but all the windows with the same color on at once, with 16 channels, also. So, number of channels to me, is relational to what you want to achieve.

Another example - I have 12 mini trees, each 4 colors. That's 48 channels. Or, I could have decided, with the 48 channels, to have 24 two-color trees. Or, 48 one-color trees. Or, 48 different items all together.

In conclusion, I do have a lot of channels available. I won't use all that I have. But, I will be able to use all that I want...

I agree with pretty much everyone - with few exceptions, you'll always expand your channel count year to year. I would buy the highest channel count I could possibly afford, even if I didn't use them all. The initial cost is the biggest, and if you can save in the end buying 24 over 16, I'd do it.

This isn't an inexpensive hobby. My first year, and I have literally thousands of dollars into it. But, all hobbies are expensive, when you get right down to it. Well, most, anyway...maybe not Butterfly Collecting, unless you figure in that trip to China for that rare Striped Blue Crow butterfly (Euploea mulciber)...

http://www.wildlifeextra.com/resources/listimg/butterflies/striped_blue_butterfly_ufz@body.jpg

Just my $12.50 worth...

Roger

[olingerjccj]

Wow, great stuff. As for this year I want to keep the cost down. Stuff I already have about 200 various extension cords. i have had a big static display for about 6 years now. Too many lights to even count, I decided to go 24, for me that is 3 strands of lights per channel so that is 75 stands of 100 minis I can do a lot with that. My ideas were to have 4 mini trees with one color 2 of them with a different color so 6 channels my leaping arches. I am only gonna go with 2 arches with 3 sets on each so 6 channels there. I am at 12 chs from there I am not sure about the other 12 but that will come. Or am I all wrong about the channels?

Thanks
John

[Wayne J]

Yep, that is a correct count.

You will be very suprised on the "WOW" effect you can achieve with lower channel counts. Some of the best videos I have seen were with channels of 64 or less. ;)

[rokkett]

John,

You won't regret it. I am just finishing installing my SS24 in it's case. Building a longer com cable next, so logged in here to print out the schematic.

My wife thinks I am crazy - I was so happy to see it in it's case with all 24+2 extension cords routed back out of the base, that I started taking pictures. It's a shame the cover will be closed.... :(

Maybe it needs a clear Lucite window....


....hummmm.... :)

[djulien]

John,


For example, I have 16 windows that face the street. I will be using 4 colors of lights on each window. So, that's 64 channels, if I control each color by itself, on each window. Which is what I am doing. If I wanted to do all 4 colors together on each window, on a channel (might as well have multis!), I could get away with 16 channels. Or, I could run each color independent, but all the windows with the same color on at once, with 16 channels, also. So, number of channels to me, is relational to what you want to achieve.


There are also other variations that provide various levels of compromise between #channels and independence, taking more than 16 but less than 64. For example, you could connect them in "color banks", with one channel for each window for on/off/dimming, and then 2 - 4 additional channels to "bank select" the colors across all the windows, for a total of 18 - 20 channels. This would allow any combination of windows to be on/off/dim but with the same color(s) on each at any given instant in time. This particular arrangement wouldn't allow multiple windows of different colors to be on at the same time, though (unless you swapped around the colors on some of the windows, but then they could not all be the same color at the same time). Anyway, lots of variations are possible.

don

[Wayne J]

1: My wife thinks I am crazy

2: I was so happy to see it in it's case with all 24+2 extension cords routed back out of the base, that I started taking pictures.

3: It's a shame the cover will be closed.... :(
Maybe it needs a clear Lucite window....


....hummmm.... :)

1: Normal reaction. Women :rolleyes:
2: Well, since you told us, now you have to post them for all to see. ;)
3: Heck ya!!!! (http://www.jamesfamilychristmas.com/images/stories/pictures/Renard/ren64-he-10.jpg)

[g2ktcf]

Roflmao!!!!

[jukingeo]

Hello all,

This will be my 1st attempt at animated. to do list build the renard, sequence songs, lay out my lights. Would you all start with the 16 channel or just go for the 24 channel.

Thanks
John

Hello John,

I am a late starter too and I was thinking of doing a simple 16 channel show just to get my feet wet. I was bouncing around with a couple of different controller designs before finally settling on the Renard 24 channel system. Figuring I would use 16 channels this year and next year expand to the full 24 channels. However, in the midst of everything, I came across a really good deal on the Renard 16 channel board (REN16OZ), so I went that route instead. My thinking is that I always could add on the Rendard 24 channel board later on to have a full 40 channels.

However, there is a very important consideration that cannot be overstated and that is the time needed for programming. I did limit myself to just three songs this year (plus a free running sequence). I am finding out real fast that the guys with more experience here aren't kidding when they say that the time consuming part is the programming. I just finished programming a light sequence for the Nutcracker: Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy, which is a 2:15 song. The programming for this song took about a week and that was for 12 channels only. This was the easiest song too.

My next two songs will run more complex:

Sleigh Ride-Leroy Anderson (2:35) (12 channels)
Carol Of The Bells-TSO (3:35) (12 or 16 channels)

The last one is going to be a huge challenge as I want to take it to the next level and shoot for the full 16 channels.

I would say to answer your question...yeah go with the 24 channel Renard, but I would only program 12 or 16 channels.

My program will consist of 8 candy canes that will play 'melody'. Then I have lights in bushes which will change and react to changes in the song.

I do have a 13th channel that I am reserving for a 'twinkle' light channel too. But as of now I do not have a set plan for the remaining 3 channels.

Since you are first starting out, I do recommend going over the posts on safety and working with electricity. Also get to know your current loading very well (unless you plan to use all LEDs).

On the average, you probably will not need more than 2 or 3 amps switching capacity on your SSR's. Doing the math that 2 amps per channel will add up to 48 amps total (on a fully loaded system). Using 3 100 lamp mini light sets would be about 1 amp. So 300 lamps on one channel is plenty right there. Naturally you can go much much further with LED's using the same power.

I am using a combination of LED and mini lamps. The LED lights will be mainly my background lights (as these lights are mostly on during a sequence). I am using them in two bushes. The mini lights are a bit brighter so these are in my candy canes.

Two things you need to do right off the bat is go your local supplier and see what they have. Usually the places with better prices are Target, Lowes, and WalMart. Thusfar I like the stuff at WalMart the best because the boxes give you all the info such as current draw and how long the string of lights is. One of the other good things about WalMart is that they have a TON of good stuff in the $2 to $20 range. I found a bunch of things in the $2 to $10 range too and on Thursday night just about bought all I needed for my show and the bill was under $200. Can't beat that. Lowes is next in line with low prices.


Ok, so once you know what your available 'stock' is, the next step is selecting your music. Play your selected music several times over and try to envision what you want to do in terms of programming. Keep an ear out for changes in the music and how you can change up your program.

Once you have an idea of what you want to do as per song you want to use and what you think would go with those songs, then you have to set up Vixen with a profile that represents your house and the proposed layout.

(There are tutorials on YouTube that will teach you how to work with Vixen).

When you order your Renard board, most of the parts can be ordered through Mouser. If you don't know how to user a soldering iron, do some searches on the web and learn how to do it on scrap PCB's first. You don't want to damage the Renard PCB by using too much heat.

So hope that helps you out a bit!

I have to get back to programming.

Geo