Absolute newbie here trying to get started

[kboyts]

I think Ive read just about every thread/wiki link on the site so far and am still fairly well stumped/ suffering from brain overload. I'm looking to try a simple first time setup this year.

Im pretty sure I could get away with 8-12 channels as I have a small city house/lot and not alot of room for a display. My available electrical supply isnt very great either as my only outside outlets run on the same circuit as my kitchen appliances. Whoever wired the house obviously didnt put much thought into the wiring.

Last year I had 4-5 strings of large globe style incandescents (g40 maybe if I remember right?), 6 mini trees, 6-7 strings of leds, and 6 mini light candy canes. If I manage to get a computer setup runnings this year thecomponents would most likely be similar. Id be pairing the things above together into around 8 channels to keep cost and complexity down.

What would be my cheapest/easiest way to make it all happen. Ive never worked with circuit boards before but do know how to solder, and have a spare computer I could use to run everything. I also have already downloaded Vixen to run everything.

Ok, this post is long winded enough already but thanks in advance for any and all help given.

[ikabod]

Check this website http://www.ksochristmaslights.com/how_to/index.html#article4
it mentioned an 8 channel controller for $40, setup looks pretty easy.
I was planning to use that then decided to go for grinch.

[dirknerkle]

You can build a Renard SS8 for about what your budget allows -- it would give you full dimming capability for 8 channels and has all the hardware on the circuitboard. All you'd need to do is house it in a protective box, buy 8 extension cords and hook up your lights. You'd hook up the Renard SS8 to the computer using a serial cable (odds are your computer has a serial port).

Going the Grinch way is okay -- The grinch board is not very expensive to build, but it requires an "ssr" for each set of 4 channels you'd want to control. So a Grinch + two, 4-channel SSR's would cost you about the same as a Renard SS8, but the Grinch has only on/off capability -- no dimming (such as gradually fading lights up/down). However, the Grinch has 64 channels so you could grow with it.

An Olsen 595 board functions virtually identically to the Grinch although it's a little more expensive to build and has 64 channel LEDs so you know which is on/off.

Both the Grinch and 595 can be converted later to allow dimming (fading up/down) by the use of a Ren-C (Renard C converter). The Ren-C would cost you about $30 to build and it's an add-on component (the computer talks to the Ren-C, the Ren-C talks to the Grinch or 595).

For about $100 you can build a Renard SS24 which has 24 channels and like the SS8, it has all the electronics built right onto the board.

There are lots of threads here about getting started. The Wiki has a great section about getting started,too. You also will find lots of folks here on DIYC who are glad to help, but the first tasks you have to address on your own are: your budget, time available, power availability, and whether you want just on/off control or the ability to fade lights up/down as well.

Sounds like you've already figured out the first 3 things; the last one is a choice of the kind of controller and related items you'll need to have. From there on, it gets easier as you build your display because one type will take you in one direction and the other type in a different direction.

Either direction will lead you to a lot of enjoyment... and... additional expense because you'll probably never be satisfied with X number of channels. You'll always want more... and bigger... and ... and...

It's a great hobby. Welcome to DIYC!

[ctmal]

I find this very useful:
http://www.doityourselfchristmas.com/wiki/index.php?title=7_Steps_to_Selecting_a_Controller

[kboyts]

You can build a Renard SS8 for about what your budget allows -- it would give you full dimming capability for 8 channels and has all the hardware on the circuitboard. All you'd need to do is house it in a protective box, buy 8 extension cords and hook up your lights. You'd hook up the Renard SS8 to the computer using a serial cable (odds are your computer has a serial port).

Going the Grinch way is okay -- The grinch board is not very expensive to build, but it requires an "ssr" for each set of 4 channels you'd want to control. So a Grinch + two, 4-channel SSR's would cost you about the same as a Renard SS8, but the Grinch has only on/off capability -- no dimming (such as gradually fading lights up/down). However, the Grinch has 64 channels so you could grow with it.

An Olsen 595 board functions virtually identically to the Grinch although it's a little more expensive to build and has 64 channel LEDs so you know which is on/off.

Both the Grinch and 595 can be converted later to allow dimming (fading up/down) by the use of a Ren-C (Renard C converter). The Ren-C would cost you about $30 to build and it's an add-on component (the computer talks to the Ren-C, the Ren-C talks to the Grinch or 595).

For about $100 you can build a Renard SS24 which has 24 channels and like the SS8, it has all the electronics built right onto the board.

There are lots of threads here about getting started. The Wiki has a great section about getting started,too. You also will find lots of folks here on DIYC who are glad to help, but the first tasks you have to address on your own are: your budget, time available, power availability, and whether you want just on/off control or the ability to fade lights up/down as well.

Sounds like you've already figured out the first 3 things; the last one is a choice of the kind of controller and related items you'll need to have. From there on, it gets easier as you build your display because one type will take you in one direction and the other type in a different direction.

Either direction will lead you to a lot of enjoyment... and... additional expense because you'll probably never be satisfied with X number of channels. You'll always want more... and bigger... and ... and...

It's a great hobby. Welcome to DIYC!

How much does the Renard SS8 cost to build? Where do I go to order one? I have a soldering gun, wouldthatsuffice for the construction of the board or are they very very solder points requiring a fine iron?

[kboyts]

Check this website http://www.ksochristmaslights.com/how_to/index.html#article4
it mentioned an 8 channel controller for $40, setup looks pretty easy.
I was planning to use that then decided to go for grinch.

I am considering this route as it looks to be the most affordable for now until we buy a larger house then upgrade the display.

Are there any disadvantages to it using what appears to be regular relays vs SSR on the other boards?

[WireWrap]

The only contacts that I would even consider using a soldering gun for might possibly be for fuse clips or heat-sink mounting.

Everything else should be done with a fine-tipped soldering iron, preferably a controlled-temperature station.

A gun is sorta' like using a jackhammer to brush your teeth -- a little overkill!


.

[dirknerkle]

A gun is sorta' like using a jackhammer to brush your teeth -- a little overkill!


Best analogy I've ever heard! :lol:

[dirknerkle]

I am considering this route as it looks to be the most affordable for now until we buy a larger house then upgrade the display.

Are there any disadvantages to it using what appears to be regular relays vs SSR on the other boards?

Mechanical relays can't switch on/off as fast as electronic SSRs, and consequently, they are a little slower to articulate to music. Dimming/fading up and down with relays is an impossibility. The contacts in a mechanical relay are subject to pitting/arcing as they make contact, and therefore don't last as long. The more current they carry (e.g. the more strings of lights) the faster the contacts wear out. Mechanical relays also make a little noise -- not much, but they're audible -- whereas electronic SSR's make no noise at all.

[Ronp]

There is a group buy going on now in the buy sell forum for the ren 8 ss and parts
http://www.doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8299
Just go anywere and buy a cheap soldering iron they are about 10$ they come with a fine point,You can upgrade later.

[kboyts]

There is a group buy going on now in the buy sell forum for the ren 8 ss and parts
http://www.doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8299
Just go anywere and buy a cheap soldering iron they are about 10$ they come with a fine point,You can upgrade later.

I already got in on the group buy earlier I ordered a ren 16

[Rob2791]

I started off with a simple 8 channel parallel port relays to some huge block relays that are used in a lot of cars...it worked fine for 2 years but as more into i got i finally made the move to Renard SS series. Anyhow, everyone here is very dedicated to helping you with whatever path you take. Good Luck :lol:

[kboyts]

I got in on the Vast FM02 group buy for my transmitter. I'm not extremely knowledgable on radio waves so could someone clarify a few things for me please?

To construct an antenna for this thing-
If I use 89.1 as my broadcast frequency, according to http://www.csgnetwork.com/antennagenericfreqlencalc.html I get a 1/4 length of-

2.62 feet.

So for a dipole I need too pieces of co-ax each 2.62 feet long, stip them down so the down hanging piece is just the foil shielding and the upstretched piece is just the central copper wire? then these would connect to 50 ohm coax going to my controller box?

If this is correct where would I get/ what is it called- the "T" connector that would connect the 2 pieces of the Dipole to the coax going to the transmitter. Can I just use a regular coax splitter for that piece?

[g2ktcf]

I got in on the Vast FM02 group buy for my transmitter. I'm not extremely knowledgable on radio waves so could someone clarify a few things for me please?

To construct an antenna for this thing-
If I use 89.1 as my broadcast frequency, according to http://www.csgnetwork.com/antennagenericfreqlencalc.html I get a 1/4 length of-

2.62 feet.

So for a dipole I need too pieces of co-ax each 2.62 feet long, stip them down so the down hanging piece is just the foil shielding and the upstretched piece is just the central copper wire? then these would connect to 50 ohm coax going to my controller box?

If this is correct where would I get/ what is it called- the "T" connector that would connect the 2 pieces of the Dipole to the coax going to the transmitter. Can I just use a regular coax splitter for that piece?

you don't have to have coax for the "antennae part". You can use any type of insulated or bare wire. The important part is to keep the ground plane separate from the other one. I have seen examples of any type of plastic including buttons used as the center. Tie one wire off on one hole and the other on the opposite hole. Then all you have to do is solder the center wire of the coax to the top one and the shield to the other side.

the BNC Tee version seems unnecessarily complicated to me. However if you do it...don't worry about messing with the coax...just use the before mentioned wire and solder one to the center pin of the BNC and one to the outer shell of the BNC.

Good Luck,
Chris

[kboyts]

you don't have to have coax for the "antennae part". You can use any type of insulated or bare wire. The important part is to keep the ground plane separate from the other one. I have seen examples of any type of plastic including buttons used as the center. Tie one wire off on one hole and the other on the opposite hole. Then all you have to do is solder the center wire of the coax to the top one and the shield to the other side.

the BNC Tee version seems unnecessarily complicated to me. However if you do it...don't worry about messing with the coax...just use the before mentioned wire and solder one to the center pin of the BNC and one to the outer shell of the BNC.

Good Luck,
Chris

Ok so If I'm understnading you correctly that sounds much simpler. I just run my 50 Ohm coax from the transmitter to my antenna. Then I can take 2 pieces of wire (2.62 feet each in my example) Solder one to the center conducter in the coax and run it upright, and solder the other to the foil insulator and run it towards the ground?

Now on the transmitter end, the FM02 appears to already have a antenna connector on the board. Is this a standard coax (like cable wire for the tv) or will I need to buy a special connector to attatch to the transmitter end of my coax leading to the antenna.

[g2ktcf]

Ok so If I'm understnading you correctly that sounds much simpler. I just run my 50 Ohm coax from the transmitter to my antenna. Then I can take 2 pieces of wire (2.62 feet each in my example) Solder one to the center conducter in the coax and run it upright, and solder the other to the foil insulator and run it towards the ground?

Now on the transmitter end, the FM02 appears to already have a antenna connector on the board. Is this a standard coax (like cable wire for the tv) or will I need to buy a special connector to attatch to the transmitter end of my coax leading to the antenna.

See the other thread...it is most likely a BNC connector not an F connector like on your TV.

[kboyts]

In my ever changing mind I've decided I want to change my setup again ( And I havent even assembled it the first time yet LOL)

Does anyone know the amp draw on icicle lights? I measured out the house and I need 37 feet of icicle lights to line the roof how I'd like. Is it going to be possible to run them all off of 1 channel on a renard ss16, or will the amp draw be to high for one channel?

Alo After digging thru the entire site I'm still confused as to dimming LED. I have a renardss16, and multiple string of LED lights that Ive collected over the past few years (Walmart brand LED strings) Will I be able to dim these lights?

[g2ktcf]

In my ever changing mind I've decided I want to change my setup again ( And I havent even assembled it the first time yet LOL)

Does anyone know the amp draw on icicle lights? I measured out the house and I need 37 feet of icicle lights to line the roof how I'd like. Is it going to be possible to run them all off of 1 channel on a renard ss16, or will the amp draw be to high for one channel?

Alo After digging thru the entire site I'm still confused as to dimming LED. I have a renardss16, and multiple string of LED lights that Ive collected over the past few years (Walmart brand LED strings) Will I be able to dim these lights?

General rule...100 mini lights is .3A. A normal string of icicle lights is 300 or .9A. I ran two strings of these on one channel without a heat sink and never had an issue. BUT, the risk is yours ;)

[dirknerkle]

A typical string of 100 mini-lights will normally draw about 1/3 amp; therefore, 50-lights would be about 1/6 amp. It's a pretty good guideline to use to calculate the current draw for other things. Therefore, an icicle-type string might have 150 lights (some more), it would draw 3 x the 50 amp string, 3 x 1/6 = 3/6 or about 1/2 amp.

The best way to know is to look at the packaging itself -- it should list the current draw somewhere. For example, over the years, Target has sold a brand of mini-lights that drew only about 1/10 amp, while you might get a great deal in a drugstore on mini lights only to find they draw 3/4 amp. So you really do have to check the packaging.

[g2ktcf]

A typical string of 100 mini-lights will normally draw about 1/3 amp; therefore, 50-lights would be about 1/6 amp. It's a pretty good guideline to use to calculate the current draw for other things. Therefore, an icicle-type string might have 150 lights (some more), it would draw 3 x the 50 amp string, 3 x 1/6 = 3/6 or about 1/2 amp.

The best way to know is to look at the packaging itself -- it should list the current draw somewhere. For example, over the years, Target has sold a brand of mini-lights that drew only about 1/10 amp, while you might get a great deal in a drugstore on mini lights only to find they draw 3/4 amp. So you really do have to check the packaging.

Oh, in addition to the above...get a Kill-O-Watt meter and measure the string to find out exactly what amperage it pulls. Just remember that this can change with temperature.....

[kboyts]

Thanks for the quick replies, I had planned on actually checking strings in the store. I was just trying to get a ballpark answer to start with. Its hard to do math calculations in store while wrangling and yelling at a 1.5 and a 4 year old lol.

Any input on the LED dimming question?

Hopefully it wont be too much longer before I'm all caught up on the learning curve and will be able to contribute instead of just bothering everyone with newbie questions :D

[g2ktcf]

Thanks for the quick replies, I had planned on actually checking strings in the store. I was just trying to get a ballpark answer to start with. Its hard to do math calculations in store while wrangling and yelling at a 1.5 and a 4 year old lol.

Any input on the LED dimming question?


You should be able to. However it depend on what type of LEDs they are. If you used the new sensitive TRIACs (which all the BOMs now have) you should be fine. However, you need to check to see if they are half wave or full wave. It all depends on where and how the voltage is rectified for the LEDs.

[kboyts]

You should be able to. However it depend on what type of LEDs they are. If you used the new sensitive TRIACs (which all the BOMs now have) you should be fine. However, you need to check to see if they are half wave or full wave. It all depends on where and how the voltage is rectified for the LEDs.

Well I just ordered the renard on the current co op and it hasnt shipped yet so I would assume it will be the newest parts. How do I check for full/half wave?

[dirknerkle]

Its hard to do math calculations in store while wrangling and yelling at a 1.5 and a 4 year old lol.



Well stated! ;) BTW, you can't win those fights... When they grow up, it comes back to (more like at) you multiple times over. Take it from one who has plenty of battle scars....

[g2ktcf]

Well I just ordered the renard on the current co op and it hasnt shipped yet so I would assume it will be the newest parts. How do I check for full/half wave?


Look for the diodes in the plug end of the lights. If you have one...then its halfwave...if you have two and they are in opposite directions, its full wave

and yes you should have the correct TRIACs

[kboyts]

Look for the diodes in the plug end of the lights. If you have one...then its halfwave...if you have two and they are in opposite directions, its full wave

and yes you should have the correct TRIACs

the diode is the "fillament" equivalent of an incadescent light correct? If thats the case Im going to have a hard time figureing out full/half wave. As these LEDs have a colored faceted platic globe over the outside of the light thats not removable so I cant see the actual LED......

And it getes even better I figured since I have a few replacement LEDs that came with the strings I would just disect one of the bulbs to check. The "globes" around the LED are solid, not a hollow cover and the LEDs are molded inside them so there isnt even a way to cut them apart to look. Damn cheap Chinese lights !

[g2ktcf]

the diode is the "fillament" equivalent of an incadescent light correct? If thats the case Im going to have a hard time figureing out full/half wave. As these LEDs have a colored faceted platic globe over the outside of the light thats not removable so I cant see the actual LED......

And it getes even better I figured since I have a few replacement LEDs that came with the strings I would just disect one of the bulbs to check. The "globes" around the LED are solid, not a hollow cover and the LEDs are molded inside them so there isnt even a way to cut them apart to look. Damn cheap Chinese lights !


We may need someone who has done this to chime in here but i thought the diode was at or in the plug..not individual lights. I do not have any of these so my comments are really hearsay.

[kboyts]

So I found this info during a google search-

"Most all rectified Christmas lights using LED technology will have a cylinder shaped component in the string which houses the rectifier."

I dont appear to have anything like that so I most likely have "half wave" lights. Does that mean I cant dim them?

[g2ktcf]

So I found this info during a google search-

"Most all rectified Christmas lights using LED technology will have a cylinder shaped component in the string which houses the rectifier."

I dont appear to have anything like that so I most likely have "half wave" lights. Does that mean I cant dim them?

i honestly do not know...but I see no reason why they should not. They just will never be very bright.

[djulien]

How do I check for full/half wave?

There are also some ways to check without opening the plug. Here are a couple:

- If you wave the string back and forth a little while it's lit (or shift your eyes back and forth over it several times), most people will see significant flicker for half-wave, and very little for full wave. However, people's sensitivity to the flicker varies, so this test is very subjective and works better if you have a known string to compare it to.

- Put a diode in series with the string and plug it in, then unplug it and reverse the direction of the diode and then plug it in again. If the string lights in both cases, it is full-wave; if it only lights in one of the 2 cases, then it is half-wave. Be sure to use a diode rated for 200V or better for this test (assuming U.S. voltage of 120 VAC), since the entire line voltage may end up across it.

don

[g2ktcf]

there are also some ways to check without opening the plug. Here are a couple:

- if you wave the string back and forth a little while it's lit (or shift your eyes back and forth over it several times), most people will see significant flicker for half-wave, and very little for full wave. However, people's sensitivity to the flicker varies, so this test is very subjective and works better if you have a known string to compare it to.

- put a diode in series with the string and plug it in, then unplug it and reverse the direction of the diode and then plug it in again. If the string lights in both cases, it is full-wave; if it only lights in one of the 2 cases, then it is half-wave. Be sure to use a diode rated for 200v or better for this test (assuming u.s. Voltage of 120 vac), since the entire line voltage may end up across it.

Don


very nice idea!!!

[kboyts]

They are definetly half wave as the flicker is very visible to the eye. Oh well They will have to do for this year atleast, maybe I'll replace them with clearance lights after christmas this season.

[mkess]

Check this website http://www.ksochristmaslights.com/how_to/index.html#article4
it mentioned an 8 channel controller for $40, setup looks pretty easy.
I was planning to use that then decided to go for grinch.

I did this setup last year and worked great. I would definitley recomend it to anyone not sure where to start. It was very easy to put together snd fairly cheap to. I would look on ebay for the surge protectors. Picked up mine for like 10 bux for all of them instead of 7-10 each at the store

[g2ktcf]

yes...but you can build a REN SS 8 and get the same number of channels that dim!

[kboyts]

So i picked up a Tunecast2 from ebay in case my fm02 falls thru. Is th Tunecast2 picky on antenna tuning(should i still use a measured dipole) or should i just solder a couple foot long piece of thin wire for an antenna. Also since the tunecast doesnt come with a power supply, can i run it off a 12 volt line from my computer power supply?

[dirknerkle]

So i picked up a Tunecast2 from ebay in case my fm02 falls thru. Is th Tunecast2 picky on antenna tuning(should i still use a measured dipole) or should i just solder a couple foot long piece of thin wire for an antenna. Also since the tunecast doesnt come with a power supply, can i run it off a 12 volt line from my computer power supply?

I'm not a Tunecast expert, but the Tunecast runs on batteries, right? Probably two AAA's. That would be a maximum of 3 volts DC. If you hooked it up to 12, you'd probably fry it in a hurry, although you *might* get away with 4.5v (three AAA's) and get a bit more distance. They usually design those things with a little headroom. If it runs on a 9v battery, then it *might* work on 12, you never know... It's one of those "cross your fingers" kind of deals...:(

Hooking up a longer wire will probably help -- something like 6 feet or so, and fairly straight (don't loop it over things -- it needs to be pretty straight, such as laying it along the floor, or you could tape it to a piece of PVC pipe.

[djulien]

I'm not a Tunecast expert, but the Tunecast runs on batteries, right? Probably two AAA's. That would be a maximum of 3 volts DC. If you hooked it up to 12, you'd probably fry it in a hurry, although you *might* get away with 4.5v (three AAA's) and get a bit more distance.

Actually, it does handle 12 V (TuneCast II). It comes with a 12 VDC power jack, and also a car lighter adapter to run it from 12 V.

According to another post in this forum, the sound quality is better when you run it from 12V instead of the 2 AAA's.

don

[dirknerkle]

Actually, it does handle 12 V (TuneCast II). It comes with a 12 VDC power jack, and also a car lighter adapter to run it from 12 V.

According to another post in this forum, the sound quality is better when you run it from 12V instead of the 2 AAA's.

don

Well, I'm surprized, and I most certainly stand corrected! :oops:
(I had to use the OOPS smilie because they didn't have one with egg-on-face)

I had a Belkin that was essentially the same thing and I remember trying to "boost" it to get more range and suddenly, it didn't broadcast anymore. That's what originally prompted me to get a vastelec...

Oh well....

[kboyts]

I have a set of illuminated "gift boxes/presents" that Id like to place next to my mega tree. They are lit by 9 c7 or bulbs. Would there be a problem connecting them inline with a string of LED lights from the tree? The amp draw is still under the limit for the channel I just wasn't sure on the rules concerning daisy chaining dis-similar lights together.

[Macrosill]

They will work fine. The only issue has to do with dimming. The leds will have a different dimming curve than the C9s. This may lead to you dimming the lights and the C9s will appear to be off but the leds may appear dim at lower levels. The full on perception may have the same effect.

[kboyts]

They will work fine. The only issue has to do with dimming. The leds will have a different dimming curve than the C9s. This may lead to you dimming the lights and the C9s will appear to be off but the leds may appear dim at lower levels. The full on perception may have the same effect.

Thanks. The dimming shouldnt be an issue as I'm not dimming the leds. They are half wave LED's and I was under the impression that you cant dim them?

[g2ktcf]

Thanks. The dimming shouldnt be an issue as I'm not dimming the leds. They are half wave LED's and I was under the impression that you cant dim them?


You can dim them....they just are not as bright as full wave LEDs. You can put in your own diode bridge and solve this as well.

[kboyts]

Things are finally starting to come together.

Got my FM01 transmitter the other day and have it installed in its case along with everything hooked up except for waiting on my SMA bulkhead connector for the antenna wire.

Renard SS16 should be here any day now ( probably would have been tomorrow if it wasnt for election day shutting down the USPS :( )

Got my icicle lights hung, as well as around the door and windows. Probably be putting out the mini trees and the mega tree soon.