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RPM
07-10-2009, 12:59 AM
Here's another project I've been working on lately.

It's a 16 channel DMX controlled SSR designed to fit into the Keptel CG-1000 or CG-1500 enclosures.
The circuit is designed around the Atmel ATTiny2313 processor and 74HC595 shift registers. This was done to reduce the parts count.

One thing to note is this design can be scaled up to 48 channels (the firmware channel limit) by cascading the 74HC595 drivers.
This is an original design and for the moment it is DMX controlled, but may have the option to be driven by the Helix wireless controller, hence the use of the shift registers.

It will work on 115/230vac 50/60hz and I am considering adding an option to be able to power the logic section separate from the outputs so it can be used for other voltages, as long as the logic is powered by with either 115 or 230vac.

I am going to be getting some boards made up and I plan on using this design for my show this year and as always, if there's any interest a co-op can be done.

I have attached the schematics and project files with schematics, board layout (in Eagle) and firmware source code.

Robert

RJ
07-10-2009, 07:51 AM
deleted by Wayne J

JEC
07-10-2009, 11:03 AM
Here's another project I've been working on lately.

It's a 16 channel DMX controlled SSR designed to fit into the Keptel CG-1000 enclosure.
The circuit is designed around the Atmel ATTiny2313 processor and Texas Instruments TLC5916 constant current LED driver. This was done to reduce the parts count.
One thing to note is this design can be scaled up to 48 channels (the firmware channel limit) by cascading the TLC5916 drivers.

Interesting design, especially using the small processor and being able to cascade drivers.

I checked the TI datasheet and (as you say) the constant current outputs can be adjusted in 256 steps.

I've never seen triacs driven that way. Forgive my ignorance, but I thought they could only be controlled through optocouplers driven at logic levels.

It looks like you're just varying the current through each of the optocouplers instead.

EDIT: Or maybe you're just driving the appropriate channels at $00 / $FF at the proper time, based on the zero crossing timing signal. In this way, the TI part is (somewhat) emulating a shift register?

In either case, nice work.

kostyun
07-10-2009, 11:09 AM
deleted by Wayne J

RPM
07-10-2009, 05:00 PM
deleted by Wayne J

scorpia
07-10-2009, 07:20 PM
Robert,

got a bone to pick with you!!!!!!!!!!

with all your amtel driven projects i am going to have to get me a amtel programmer, AARRGGHH, ah well, its all good. more toys :)

oh and good work

I will be interested in seeing a change to make this a led driver board instead of the triac outputs.

Peter

RPM
07-10-2009, 08:15 PM
Interesting design, especially using the small processor and being able to cascade drivers.

I checked the TI datasheet and (as you say) the constant current outputs can be adjusted in 256 steps.

I've never seen triacs driven that way. Forgive my ignorance, but I thought they could only be controlled through optocouplers driven at logic levels.

It looks like you're just varying the current through each of the optocouplers instead.

EDIT: Or maybe you're just driving the appropriate channels at $00 / $FF at the proper time, based on the zero crossing timing signal. In this way, the TI part is (somewhat) emulating a shift register?

In either case, nice work.

Thanks.

In this design I am not using the adjustable current feature, I am using them as shift registers. The reason for this is I am planning on using the Helix wireless system and will eventually add a piggyback board to handle the communications to interface with that controller.

Robert

RPM
07-10-2009, 08:25 PM
Robert,

got a bone to pick with you!!!!!!!!!!

with all your amtel driven projects i am going to have to get me a amtel programmer, AARRGGHH, ah well, its all good. more toys :)

oh and good work

I will be interested in seeing a change to make this a led driver board instead of the triac outputs.

Peter

Oops :oops: There's actually several simple AVR programmer projects you can build that run off the parallel port and use with freeware software.

Robert

scorpia
07-10-2009, 08:28 PM
Oops :oops: There's actually several simple AVR programmer projects you can build that run off the parallel port and use with freeware software.

Robert

the problem with parallel port projects is that they assume you have a parallel port.

there is a couple of usb based ones that seemt o be ok cost. im going to look into them

Peter

TimW
07-10-2009, 09:32 PM
Robert,


with all your amtel driven projects i am going to have to get me a amtel programmer, AARRGGHH, ah well, its all good. more toys :)

oh and good work


Peter

Me too...

Very versatile part that Tiny2313.... :) Its looking 'familiar' in a good way!

Lovin your work RPM!

Tim

RPM
07-10-2009, 09:55 PM
the problem with parallel port projects is that they assume you have a parallel port.

there is a couple of usb based ones that seemt o be ok cost. im going to look into them

Peter


Details, details :rolleyes:

I've got a few suggestions... I'll PM you.

Robert

budude
07-10-2009, 11:10 PM
deleted by Wayne J

BF210
07-10-2009, 11:27 PM
Re: Atmel Programming--
I just picked up the $20 Pololu USB AVR programmer (http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/1300). Haven't programmed anything yet, but the driver install was reasonably easy and well-documented, and it comes with USB and ICSP cables.

It has some limitations, but also a few extra features I'll want to try.
(yet another Don)

budude
07-10-2009, 11:44 PM
Re: Atmel Programming--
I just picked up the $20 Pololu USB AVR programmer (http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/1300). Haven't programmed anything yet, but the driver install was reasonably easy and well-documented, and it comes with USB and ICSP cables.

It has some limitations, but also a few extra features I'll want to try.
(yet another Don)

I don't recall which one I purchased (not the LadyAda one) but it only came with a 10-pin ISP cable. I had to make my own converter to program my Triks-C which has a 6-pin header (and RPMs board here has a 6-pin also). Not a big deal to make one but just not as neat - you'll want to be sure it comes with a 6-pin for sure and many come with the 10-pin in addition. Just check this before buying one anyway...

RPM
07-11-2009, 12:04 AM
I don't recall which one I purchased (not the LadyAda one) but it only came with a 10-pin ISP cable. I had to make my own converter to program my Triks-C which has a 6-pin header (and RPMs board here has a 6-pin also). Not a big deal to make one but just not as neat - you'll want to be sure it comes with a 6-pin for sure and many come with the 10-pin in addition. Just check this before buying one anyway...

Another good programmer is this one http://www.adafruit.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=16&products_id=46
It has both 6 and 10 pin connectors on it.

Wayne J
07-11-2009, 09:13 AM
Another good programmer is this one http://www.adafruit.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=16&products_id=46
It has both 6 and 10 pin connectors on it.

here is the parts list to it.

http://www.ladyada.net/make/usbtinyisp/index.html

DynamoBen
07-11-2009, 12:10 PM
deleted by Wayne J

Wayne J
07-11-2009, 12:22 PM
deleted by Wayne J

kostyun
07-11-2009, 01:33 PM
deleted by Wayne J

RJ
07-11-2009, 01:59 PM
deleted by Wayne J

DynamoBen
07-11-2009, 03:03 PM
deleted by Wayne J

P. Short
07-11-2009, 05:51 PM
deleted by Wayne J

mrpackethead
07-11-2009, 06:24 PM
deleted by Wayne J

Why was this deleted..

mrpackethead
07-11-2009, 06:26 PM
deleted by Wayne J

Why was this deleted?

wjohn
07-11-2009, 06:26 PM
RPM,

I think it is a great design, and I am glad you are mixing the ingedients to come up with a new 'cake'. We all learn a little bit more as each design floats to the surface and we understand how they operate.

Matt_Edwards
07-11-2009, 06:50 PM
And it is good to see another AVR being used!

We could completely hijack this post and argue why AVRs are better than PICs. But that too would be pointless.

RPM great design. Keep the work coming.

Cheers
Matt

mrpackethead
07-11-2009, 06:54 PM
deleted by Wayne J....

Why?

RPM
07-18-2009, 04:16 AM
I've finally had some more time to dial in the design.

One thing I found is that there may be a problem with the availability of the TLC5916 IC, especially outside of the US, so I modified the design to use the 74HC595. This should look more familiar to some of you ;) It's a simple design, but it's the Attiny2313 that makes it all work. I've finalized the firmware and I've been running Vixen sequences through it (in protoboard form) for several days now without any problems.

The drawback to using the 595 is having to add resistors on the outputs to limit the current to the LED's.

I have the board layout just about ready and I'll be getting some prototype boards made up.

I will upload the schematic here now, the board layout and firmware will be up soon.

Robert

P. Short
07-18-2009, 11:05 AM
Another limitation of the 595 chips is that the total current through the power and ground pins is limited to +/-70 mA. If you want to drive regular LEDs at more than 20 mA forward current you would need to add some buffer parts. Or you could use the same 16-channel chip that is used on the Grinch and LEDtriks boards (MBI5027, Allegro A6279, etc).

n1ist
07-18-2009, 11:29 AM
The TPIC6B595 is a high power version of the regular '595.
/mike

P. Short
07-18-2009, 11:45 AM
The TPIC6B595 is a high power version of the regular '595.
/mike

That's an interesting part, but I would tend to stay away from it. Unless there are second sources it may be difficult to get overseas, just like the TLC5916 chip that Robert was using. I think that selecting a part that people are already using would be better. Of course, it is Robert's design, so it's his choice.

Wayne J
07-18-2009, 11:45 AM
deleted by Wayne J....

Why?

As you and others that were following this thread from the start saw, the thread was completely high jacked by RJ right off the bat. It caused quite a bit of a stir. After some conversation with the OP and other members of the staff, I decided to clean up the thread. Your response was involved in the cleanup, simply because it had no relavance to the original topic. You said nothing out of line, just was not relavant to the OP.
I do understand that our members were behind RPM in his design and was supporting him, and I think that is great, (it is what makes this a great place! ) though it had nothing to do with the orignial post, it was responses to RJ's posts. It was nothing but a thread clean up so we could get back to RPM's new design. ;)

So, now that's cleared up, lets get back to the DMX16 SSR Project by RPM. :)

budude
07-18-2009, 12:04 PM
Will the firmware be flexible enough to create an 8-channel version? The hardware looks to be 2x8 anyway... A super compact 8-channel PCB would be nice for arch/bellagio drivers.

RPM
07-19-2009, 12:44 AM
Another limitation of the 595 chips is that the total current through the power and ground pins is limited to +/-70 mA. If you want to drive regular LEDs at more than 20 mA forward current you would need to add some buffer parts. Or you could use the same 16-channel chip that is used on the Grinch and LEDtriks boards (MBI5027, Allegro A6279, etc).

I'm driving the LED's at about 5mA, which should be fine for the 595 to handle in this application.

I thought about using the Allegro chips, but you can't beat the price of the 595's; last I checked they were about 35-40 cents each and much easier to get outside of the USA.
The one advantage the Allegro would have is you wouldn't need all the current limiting resistors.

Robert

RPM
07-19-2009, 12:49 AM
That's an interesting part, but I would tend to stay away from it. Unless there are second sources it may be difficult to get overseas, just like the TLC5916 chip that Robert was using. I think that selecting a part that people are already using would be better. Of course, it is Robert's design, so it's his choice.


I've considered that part as well, but my objective was to design something that can be built with commonly available parts.

Robert

RPM
07-19-2009, 12:55 AM
Will the firmware be flexible enough to create an 8-channel version? The hardware looks to be 2x8 anyway... A super compact 8-channel PCB would be nice for arch/bellagio drivers.

Yes, it is. The firmware can be used from 8 to 48 channels.
I also have an 8 channel version of the firmware I posted for the DMX4 SSR that would lend itself better though, since the 8 channels are driven directly from the processor.

I actually designed a board for an 8 channel version few months ago (it looks like the DMX4 with more channels) but have not had time to do anything with it.
I wanted to find an enclosure to fit the board into, but I've been busy working on so may other projects I haven't had time for it.
I'll probably post the project anyways to see if anyone comes up with a solution to an enclosure for it.

Robert

budude
07-19-2009, 01:36 AM
I see your point - an MCU driven one would be more compact for sure.

There is this enclosure: http://www.yourbroadbandstore.com/product.php?pid=714748 (I've seen this mentioned in some other thread somewhere...). It looks to be a double-wide TA200 (give or take) - not sure if you can disable the tamper lock on it (assuming you want to).

RPM
07-26-2009, 01:11 AM
I have ordered some prototype boards of this design and once they arrive I will build a couple of them to test.
Once I've tested them, I'll post the updated files with firmware and source code.
If there's any interest in this design, I'll do a co-op at that point.

Robert

RPM
08-17-2009, 10:33 PM
The boards arrived today and so far they look good.

I need to build one up and run it through some tests.


Here's a picture of the bare PC board.

Macrosill
08-18-2009, 10:13 AM
That looks great! Was it designed to fit any particular enclosure?

RPM
08-18-2009, 02:09 PM
Yes, It's designed to fit into the Keptel CG1000 enclosure.

One of my design goals was to try to make it as small as possible and still be large enough for ease of assembly.
Last year I had some very small 16 channel SSR's and they were a real bear to put together!
This design is much more user friendly, and it's made up of fairly common parts to help keep the cost to build one down.

I don't have a heatsink made up for the design yet, but in it's current configuration it's good for 1 amp per channel.
With a heatsink it would be good for about 2 amps per channel, or 15 amps total per bank of 8 channels.
As you can see, power for the 16 outputs are split into two 8 channel banks, and the board was made in 2 ounce copper for the extra current capacity.

Right now the cost to build one is right about $50 parts + PC board + Enclosure + shipping.

Here's a couple of pictures of one I built up last night. I still need to put the cords on it, but there's plenty of room for them.

budude
08-18-2009, 02:13 PM
That there is purty....

n1ist
10-24-2009, 07:16 PM
I just noticed - the dashed line indicating the high voltage section should run down the middle of the optos (or maybe include them) as two pins there are on the HV side.
/mike

RPM
10-25-2009, 12:24 AM
I just noticed - the dashed line indicating the high voltage section should run down the middle of the optos (or maybe include them) as two pins there are on the HV side.
/mike

These pictures were of the prototype boards I had made, and I've already changed this so when I get more boards made up they will have these lines relocated to include the optos.

Robert