XMUS 16 Channel - Need help debugging a problem

[BillAd]

Dave (and other knowledgeable individuals),

I just completed building two 16 channel XMUS Coop boards. I have the same problem with both and I’m looking for suggestions how to debug the problem. I have a volt-meter but do not have a scope. The following is a summary of my setup and the symptoms I’m seeing:

Setup: I’m using a RS-232/RS-485 converter from the PC and a home built power supply to provide 9 volts and ZC. This setup works well with several REN-C boards so I feel confident the RX signal, 9 volts, and ZC are working as expected. Voltage at TP1 is 9.5 volts and 4.42 volts at TP6. I have a nightlight connected to channel 8.

Symptoms: When the PICs are programmed with the diagnostic software both LEDS flash slowly, about one flash per second. I anticipate this is the expected results.

When the PICs are reprogrammed with firmware renard-20070812_57600_EXTOSC_NoPWM and I short jumper J1 the nightlight lights, and extinguishes when I remove the jumper. (I believe the assembly instructions suggest that CH1DIAG and CH2DIAG LED should also light, but they do not. J3 and J4 are shorted so I’m not clear if this is an indicator of a problem) When I connect the board to Vixen using Renard Plugin configured to 57600, I do not see any control of the night light, even when I turn all channels on. Of note is that this same plugin configuration works well with the REN-C boards so I also expect the Vixen settings are correct.

My thoughts are the following: Because the debug software is working this indicates the voltage regulator is fine, PIC’s are programmed and running, OSC1 is installed correctly, and ZC is present. When I short J1 and the nightlight lights this suggest 110 volts is present and channel 1 opto and SSR are working fine. This leads me to suspect a problem with communications but am not sure how to confirm. The onboard RS485 chip looks to be installed correctly with the notch pointing opposite the opto’s. Any suggestions?

Bill

[tconley]

i just built mine and i am using the pwm code and it works fine. I am powering it with the renard t i just had to change the c2 cap to 1kuf >16v then it worked like a charm.

[LRNeener]

Try using RS232 and not RS485. If it works with the RS232 you mite want to try changing pins 4 and 5 on the incoming data line. The Ren16 has those pins reversed from the RenC board. Since RS232 does not care if the pins are reversed it will be a easy test. Someone please correct me if i am wrong.

tconley
Are you using RS232 or RS485?

Thanks
Camron

[xmus]

Dave (and other knowledgeable individuals),

I just completed building two 16 channel XMUS Coop boards. I have the same problem with both and I’m looking for suggestions how to debug the problem. I have a volt-meter but do not have a scope. The following is a summary of my setup and the symptoms I’m seeing:

Setup: I’m using a RS-232/RS-485 converter from the PC and a home built power supply to provide 9 volts and ZC. This setup works well with several REN-C boards so I feel confident the RX signal, 9 volts, and ZC are working as expected. Voltage at TP1 is 9.5 volts and 4.42 volts at TP6. I have a nightlight connected to channel 8.

Symptoms: When the PICs are programmed with the diagnostic software both LEDS flash slowly, about one flash per second. I anticipate this is the expected results.

When the PICs are reprogrammed with firmware renard-20070812_57600_EXTOSC_NoPWM and I short jumper J1 the nightlight lights, and extinguishes when I remove the jumper. (I believe the assembly instructions suggest that CH1DIAG and CH2DIAG LED should also light, but they do not. J3 and J4 are shorted so I’m not clear if this is an indicator of a problem) When I connect the board to Vixen using Renard Plugin configured to 57600, I do not see any control of the night light, even when I turn all channels on. Of note is that this same plugin configuration works well with the REN-C boards so I also expect the Vixen settings are correct.

My thoughts are the following: Because the debug software is working this indicates the voltage regulator is fine, PIC’s are programmed and running, OSC1 is installed correctly, and ZC is present. When I short J1 and the nightlight lights this suggest 110 volts is present and channel 1 opto and SSR are working fine. This leads me to suspect a problem with communications but am not sure how to confirm. The onboard RS485 chip looks to be installed correctly with the notch pointing opposite the opto’s. Any suggestions?

Bill

The voltage at TP6 is concerning. It should be 5V. I wonder if your power supply supplying TP1 isn't capable of the current (which isn't much...) and the voltage is sagging? Watch TP1 and see if the voltage is stable when you are sending lots of flashy/blinky commands to the lights.

The diode D3 is to protect your XMUS board from reverse voltage being applied. I would (in this case ONLY for test) short it out. This should increase the voltage to the regulator input, and please report back what TP6 is after that experiment. I think you should only require 7 or 8 Volts on TP1 to power the regulator correctly... so 9V at TP1 and 4.4 V at TP6, something is not right.

Yes slow blinking of Ch 2 LED on both is correct, but this will work when ZC is broken, and OSC isn't working (Depending on the version of diag code you are using). Be sure to use the correct version of diag code which is designed for use with an external oscillator.
http://www.christmasinshirley.com/wiki/index.php?title=Renard_Firmware

CH2 LED will not go on when using non-PWM firmware. I'll modify the document to be more clear. No problem here, the LED's wont fire even when J3 and J4 are closed with non-PWM FW.

I would disagree with your summary, depending on the Diag code used, your Osc may or may not be running. Same with your zero cross. Get the latest Diag code, hook up a light to ALL channels, learn what every channel means, and prove to yourself that Osc and ZC are running.

Thanks,
Dave

[xmus]

Channel 2 - blinks on and off as a heartbeat (if you see blinking, the PIC has power, clock, and is basically working ok).
Channel 5 - blinks on and off if the PIC is seeing a more or less proper Zero-crossing signal
Channel 6 - blinks as the PIC receives good serial data (no framing error, no overrun errors).
Channel 7 - blinks if the PIC receives bytes on the serial line with framing errors (usually wrong baudrate or inverted data).
Channel 8 - blinks if the PIC has overrun error on the serial line (no known causes for this, other than possibly a bad PIC).

[xmus]

I was thinking about this today, at a bare minimum, tell us if Ch 2 and Ch 5 are blinking slowly.... (hook up a single light to Ch 5, and use the LED with CH2 jumper).
That would be a really good start.

[BillAd]

Xmus,

I believe you are correct regarding the voltage supply. I reinstalled the diag. program and found neither of the LEDs were blinking although they did at the point in your assembly instructions where this test is first performed. I then removed all of the opto's and found the LEDs began blinking, but at a very rapid rate. This led me to suspect insufficient voltage which led me to order a couple of Ren-t boards and parts. Currently I have a home built power supply using a bridge rectifier and suspect the voltage drop starts there.

So at the moment I'm on hold wait to build the Ren-t. I'll post back when I have an update to share.

Thanks for the follow-up!

Bill

[xmus]

Sorry it took me so long to reply.... When I get busy I don't browse the forums... always feel free to email or PM me, I'm an email addict like most CS/EE types.

When did you receive your PCB's (long ago? April/May? or recently?)

Is it possible for you to post a high resolution photo of the top and bottom?
Please use tripod, or make sure no fuzzy in the picture, clean, crisp if possible :)

[BillAd]

I've not yet resolved the problem and provide the following update in hopes of someone seeing an error in my ways:

XMUS board is currently being powered by a 9 volt battery to help eliminate power supply influences. The 9v is connected to TP1 and TP2, the power led is lit, and voltage between TP1 and TP6 is around 4.5 volts.

120 volts is connected to the board and I confirmed the ground wire is connected to the correct side of the plug (left side of a wall plug).

When diag firmware is loaded channel 1 is steady on, channel 2 (heartbeat) flashes approximately one per second, channel 3 is steady on, channel 4 is off, channels 5 is steady on, channels 6 and 7 turn on when Vixen is transmitting, and channel 8 remains off.

The connections to the serial port are (looking at a male plus with the top row being the 5 pins) pin 3 and pin 5 (where pin 1 is the left most pin). No other wires are connected to the PC.

When the firmware that Dave recommend there is no control evident, including the status leds which do not light.

I confirmed the port settings are consistent with the Vixen Renard dimmer plugin configuration (57600, 8, none, 1 stop, no flow control). I also tested a lower baud rate (9600) with no improvement.

I sent an assembled board to Dave and he confirmed the PICS are properly programmed and the board is fully functional with his equiptment. Thus the error lies somewhere on my side, connections or PC, but the next steps to resolve the issue is not evident to me. Any suggestions are welcome, thanks.

(Dave's been a great help but I fear I'll wear him out with dumb questions)

[kkmm]

I'm a newby to this myself, but I've successfully built and tested 2 xmus boards with my own trials and issues, so I may help.

Baud rate:
With the latest version of the Firmware, there are 2 places that you need to verify the baud rate setting on your computer. It must be set for 57600. One is in Vixen itself under the Plugin Properties, the other in Windows itself. I use Windows XP and the native com port, (not a USB to Serial Converter). I changed the settings for COM1 (the com port I'm using) under control panel/system/Hardware/Device Manager/Ports. (Mine was originally set to 9600.)

Wiring:
I'm using a RS232-RS485 converter off of my com port, CAT 5 Wire, and wired exactly as Dave specified in his Theory of Operation document. Blue/white to D+, Blue to D-. Blue/white is connected to Pin 5, and Blue is connect to Pin 4 on the RJ45.

Power:
I'm using a 12vdc 1.3a wallwart (cell phone charger) and CAT5 Wire. The brown wires (both of them) are connected to the Positive output of the wallwart, the Green Wire (Both of them) are connected to the Negative output. Brown/white is connected to pin 7, Brown to Pin 8, Green/white to pin 1, and Green to pin 2 of the RJ45. The orange pair is not used in my setup.

Everything is working great for me, and I hope this helps you a little too.

[P. Short]

Five should be flashing as well, probably a zero-crossing problem. Trace the connections to R17 and R18 to find out where to connect the 110V AC for the zero-crossing (my board doesn't have any silkscreen, so I can't be more helpful here).

--

Phil

[kkmm]

The boards with the silk screen show a "N" for the Neutral connection, and a "NC" for no connection where the Zero Crossing circuit is connected. Place the AC Neutral wire in the "N" screw down port.

[xmus]

The connections to the serial port are (looking at a male plus with the top row being the 5 pins) pin 3 and pin 5 (where pin 1 is the left most pin). No other wires are connected to the PC.


Your 485 data should be on pins 4 and 5... I believe you may have found your problem!
(see page 31 of 36 (theory of operation doc)
http://www.ritzfam.com/ChristmasMadness/Renardx16SSR/Release/16CPicDimmedSSR_Theory_of_Operation_Rev1.9.pdf

[BillAd]

Thanks for the suggestions. Neutral is connected to the correct terminal, port settins were done in Vixen and in XP, all are consistent. Of note is this same COM port works fine with RENC using the same Vixen Renard plugin settings.

My mistake on the status lights (my eyes are getting crossed)... heart beat flashing (2), 3 is on, 4 is off, 5 is steady on, 6 and 7 turn on when vixen is running, 8 remains off. Sorry for the mistake - I'll update the earlier post.

I also tried a rs232/rs484 converter with the same non-results. Currently have the board connected without the conversion.

[xmus]

When diag firmware is loaded channel 1 is steady on, channel 2 (heartbeat) flashes approximately one per second, channel 3 is steady on, channel 4 is off, channels 5 is steady on, channels 6 and 7 turn on when Vixen is transmitting, and channel 8 remains off.


ch 5 should always blink just as ch 2. (as long as AC power is applied, and ZC is working...).

I believe you may have a ZC issue on that particular XMUS board. The board you sent me (as all function boards I have...) blinks ch2 and ch5,

Double check ch5 with AC power applied..... if it still does not flash, switch to a different XMUS board (I think you said you have built 5 now?) and see if ch5 is blinking.

[BillAd]

Opps just read Dave's post regarding pins 4 and 5, will try it now.

Edit: nope. I checked the reference Dave provided and now realize he is referencing pin 4 and 5 on the RJ45. I was referring to the output of the serial port. Unfortunately I do have the wires connected to RJ45 pins 4 and 5 (and reversing them does not resolve the problem).

[xmus]

The connections to the serial port are (looking at a male plus with the top row being the 5 pins) pin 3 and pin 5 (where pin 1 is the left most pin). No other wires are connected to the PC.




I don't know how you are orienting your RJ45 plug to count the pins, I didn't understand your description, but see page 31 and orient your connector that way, and then reply with the pin numbers again.
http://www.ritzfam.com/ChristmasMadness/Renardx16SSR/Release/16CPicDimmedSSR_Theory_of_Operation_Rev1.9.pdf

Did you do the "three power wire modification" ? This is where you solder 2 small jumpers under each RJ45 connector? If you did, and then you put serial to ch3, you would essentially be connecting on leg of your RS232 or RS485 to 12V....... Bill this might explain the 10v differential between TP1 (ground on XMUS board) and the PC ground...

But looking at the high res pictures you emailed me, i don't see this modification.

If you are counting backwards from me, then pin 3 would be pin 6 (in my counting system) and pin 6 is a ground....

So without the modification, if you wired serial to pin 3, that would just be an un-used pin... which doesn't explain the 10V difference in ground planes.

Not sure any of that helped, but it might help others help you!
:)

[xmus]

Bill,

Please disconnect all wires from an xmus board and check the resistance between the small #3 via near BOTH (one at a time) RJ45 jacks. and have the other VOM probe on TP1.

Repeat and do it again with one probe of the VOM on TP2.

Resistance between

#3 via on left to TP1
#3 via on right to TP1
#3 via on left to TP2
#3 via on right to TP2

Hook up your RS485/RS232 and repeat the above experiment

#3 via on left to TP1
#3 via on right to TP1
#3 via on left to TP2
#3 via on right to TP2

(hope you have a tiny probe tip to get to #3 on the right!)


In ALL cases, the resistance between all of the above should be huge (infinite) and never below a few million ohms.

[xmus]

Opps just read Dave's post regarding pins 4 and 5, will try it now.

Edit: nope. I checked the reference Dave provided and now realize he is referencing pin 4 and 5 on the RJ45. I was referring to the output of the serial port. Unfortunately I do have the wires connected to RJ45 pins 4 and 5 (and reversing them does not resolve the problem).

3 and 5 on serial port would be correct.
3 being TX data from PC to xmus, and 5 being ground.

(Page 26 of theory of op doc)
3 would go to RS485B which is RJ45 pin 4
5 would go to RS485A which is RJ45 pin 5

[BillAd]

Dave,

Ok using your picture... +5 to pin 1, data to pins 4 and 5, gnd to pin 8. I did not mod the board to add jumpers and all of the boards that I built are consistent with the one I sent to you other than yours has the additional filter cap added to TP6. Regarding the 10v I measured last night between TP1 and PC case -( I emailed an update to you twice but it is not logged in my sent mail so there may be a problem with my provider - they host the sent mail file) I measured again today and find no voltage difference using the 9v battery, or the powersupply. I must have had cobwebs on my brain last night.

I'll get those measurements in a moment

[xmus]

Dave,

Ok using your picture... +5 to pin 1, data to pins 4 and 5, gnd to pin 8. I did not mod the board to add jumpers and all of the boards that I built are consistent with the one I sent to you other than yours has the additional filter cap added to TP6. Regarding the 10v I measured last night between TP1 and PC case -( I emailed an update to you twice but it is not logged in my sent mail so there may be a problem with my provider - they host the sent mail file) I measured again today and find no voltage difference using the 9v battery, or the powersupply. I must have had cobwebs on my brain last night.

Actually i would expect on the 9V battery things would be fine, if you revert to your RenC power supply and see a voltage diff between ground, you need to root cause that and make that problem go away... unfortunately I'm not familiar with RenC enough to tell you how to fix the problem, if that is the case.

I'm rooting for you over here :) What should we (you) try next :)

[MarkL]

I don't know if this helps, but I had a "zero cross" issue when I first brought up my board.

The areas fed by 110VAC are separated into the left and right. The zero cross circuit is fed from the right side. My issue was that I was only testing channels 1-8, so I only connected the hot to the left hand side. You must connect hot to the right hand side to get the zero cross to work. (I now have a 14 gauge wire which connects the right and left hand sides since there are two terminals for each side.)

Mark

[xmus]

Dave,

Ok using your picture... +5 to pin 1, data to pins 4 and 5, gnd to pin 8. I did not mod the board to add jumpers and all of the boards that I built are consistent with the one I sent to you other than yours has the additional filter cap added to TP6. Regarding the 10v I measured last night between TP1 and PC case -( I emailed an update to you twice but it is not logged in my sent mail so there may be a problem with my provider - they host the sent mail file) I measured again today and find no voltage difference using the 9v battery, or the powersupply. I must have had cobwebs on my brain last night.


Why +5 to pin 1? is that a type-o? Should be ground
(page 31! page 31! hee hee)

Pin 8 should be >8 volts....

Either you are counting backwards, or something is messed up. Are you still using the battery? If yes, then provide NO POWER to Rj45 jack, only serial data on 4 and 5.

[xmus]

I don't know if this helps, but I had a "zero cross" issue when I first brought up my board.

The areas fed by 110VAC are separated into the left and right. The zero cross circuit is fed from the right side. My issue was that I was only testing channels 1-8, so I only connected the hot to the left hand side. You must connect hot to the right hand side to get the zero cross to work. (I now have a 14 gauge wire which connects the right and left hand sides since there are two terminals for each side.)

Mark


EDIT Yes exactly, ZC works on black wire on right, and white wire both.... If you just test left bank of 8 lights, and don't hook black wire to right, you wont get a ZC... good point.

also be sure you are hooking neutral to the "N" not "NC"(no connect) as noted below:


Page 17

"A single neutral
wire must be connected to the “N” terminal in order for the zero cross circuit to work.
The reason there is an extra terminal next to the N terminal is because having a single
terminal is bad for mechanical stability. Having two soldered to the board makes it
sturdier. The unlabeled terminal is not connected to anything. I could have connected it
to neutral as well, but I had visions of someone screwing a black wire in there, assuming
that is where the power goes in… POOF."

[BillAd]

Markl,

That was the problem, it's magical in Buffalo tonight. Thank-you all for the help and suggestions!!!!

Bill :P

[xmus]

Markl,

That was the problem, it's magical in Buffalo tonight. Thank-you all for the help and suggestions!!!!

Bill :P


YEAH!