Troubleshooting SSR Problems

[cbell]

Hello,
I just got my first SSRoz assembled last night. I had my Grinch all assembled and working fine. When I first plugged in the SSR channels 1, 2, and 4 were working, 3 was not. The solder joints on that triac seemed awfully close, even though my multimeter was saying there wasn't a short there, I went ahead and reworked them anyhow. Once I did that, channel 3 started working briefly and then no channels were working. Now the grinch doesn't seem to want to work either. I haven't completely troubleshot the grinch, but I want to forget about it for now because there isn't a whole lot to go wrong with the grinch, worst case I fried the Allegro chips and will replace them.

Forgetting about the grinch, I want to focus on the SSR. I have been searching around with little luck on what to do to trouble shoot the SSR. How can I test if the opto is working correctly? How can I test if the traic is working correctly. I'm assuming I could drive one of the pins of the triac with AC and get it to trigger, but I was wanting to ask first. Didn't have much luck trying to trouble shoot the optos either but it doesn't help that I'm not sure what to look for on the output of the opto. There is 5V going to the SSR because the led lights and the test points read 5.1V.

My best guess is that in trying to troubleshoot channel 3, I touched something I shouldn't have and that stopped the other channels, but I wanted to get better troubleshooting tips before I try to touch anything else!

Thanks,
-Chris

EDIT:
I did check the fuse, it's still functional.

[Aurbo99]

One tool that will be indispensable to you is Wayne's AOIT, All In One Tester.

It will test the SSR without need for the controller.

I recommend this little gem very strongly.

http://www.christmasinshirley.com/wiki/index.php?title=All_In_One_Tester

Your symptoms suggest several different possible causes.

Specific to the SSRoz and ignoring the Grinch for the moment;


Bad 3032 or the 6 pin socket, is it seated, is the 3032 oriented correctly.
Bad Triac
Bad solder joint
Weak connection from AC to the SSR,
if you make your own cables, check the retaining tab, it may have conpressed and needs to be opened a bit, this creates positive pressure down on the pins. Wiggle it a bit if needed.
That pretty much covers the SSR.

Other things;
First one that comes to mind is your Cat5 cable. Double check the crimp and wiring. It almost sounds like a bad cable, and as you inadvertently move it around you making/breaking connection.

Second is your Grinch power, (but you've covered that, its in J2?) Is your Grinch power sufficient?

Third would be the data cable from computer to Grinch.

Are you observing the correct channel ports out from the grinch?

Vixen;
Is the plugin set up correctly?

[WakeFan]

Also check your RJ45 jacks. I've had some pins cross before inside the jack.

[ErnieHorning]

You can also test with just a regular 9 volt battery and applying the voltage directly to the RJ45 connector on the SSR. The easiest way to connect to the battery is to rip the connector off of another battery and solder wires to it. Then just apply the + wire to pin 1 and the – to pins 2, 4, 6 & 8 to turn on channel 1, 2, 3 & 4.

Once you have the SSR working, you can then try connecting to the Grinch.

BTW, you can also use a standard network cable that you already know will work with a computer for connecting between the Grinch and the SSR..

[cbell]

Thank you everyone for your suggestions. I will have to try them when I get home from work tonight. It probably didn't help that it was pushing 12:30 AM when I was trying to troubleshoot, hopefully tonight I can go into it with a clear head!

Is there any way to test just the triac without de-soldering it?

Is there any way to test just the opto coupler?

[awhaley]

For me the first step would be figuring out which piece of equipment has the problem...

To check the grinch without the SSRs... Each output channel of the grinch can be checked by putting an LED and resistor between the output channel and +5V. A 'breakout' cable with one RJ-45 end and the other end all stripped wires would help a lot with this, as would soldering an LED to a 180ohm resistor to use as a test light..

To check an ssr without the grinch, it's as simple as hooking the +V up to power and touching each channels input to ground. The 'breakout cable' will help a lot with this....


Once you know where the problem is...

A quick thing to check with the grinch other than than the chips, are the data lines. When a grinch works sometimes, often the latch and clock signals are connected backwards.... it's a common mistake and it makes lights come on, sometimes...and not others.

On the ssr end, I would swap out the opto (since it's usually in a socket) and try connecting the input to ground and the +v line to +v without the grinch plugged in to see if this fixes it. In my mind, OTHER than bridging AC to the low voltage side of the board, there aren't that many things which would take out 4 channels of an SSR at once... Make sure the AC is getting to the board, make sure that the fuse is good, and that the fuseholder is securely attached... Make sure there's not a problem with the +5v connection (as this would take out all the channels at once.)

As far as testing components... you CAN take the opto off the board and build a test circuit for it... You would connect +v and ground (WITH A RESISTOR ON ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER!) and on the other side, connect AC to one terminal, a single c7 lamp on the other terminal, and then hook the other AC lead to the other side of the c7... so the c7 and the two MTs of the opto are in series with each other on the AC line (If this isn't clear, ask for more help before giving it a shot. I can draw a picture if you need me to. :)

For a triac test circuit... it should be possible, but I've never done it... so get advice from someone who actually has designed a triac circuit before you go poking around too much... :) My GUESS would be that connecting AC to the gate of the triac , through an appropriate resistor would do it... Whether you tie the MT1 or MT2 side of the triac to the gate input through the resistor in order to keep it in the right quadrants is the thing you need to look up... I think it's MT1, but don't take my word for it... I'm just writing this to try to elicit the right information from someone who knows, or to tell you enough to hunt the answer down.... For this application, just a quick test, you might not have to worry about quadrants, but I'm just not sure.... Someone will have the answer for you though... :)

Art

[cbell]

SUCCESS!

I finally have blinky flashy!!! Thank you everyone for all of your help and suggestions. I had my grinch working with LEDs to test it, but tonight for the first time, I have blinking Christmas lights.

The original problem with the SSRoz was that channel 3 wasn't working. It turns out that it was just a bad joint at R7 so the opto for channel 3 wasn't getting 5V. However, that naturally wasn't the first thing I checked and ultimately led to all of my other problems. I did however learn several very important tips that I will have to keep in mind as I proceed to build the rest of my SSRs and my Ren24s.

1. Don't get too excited.
Once my back ordered resistors arrived from Mouser yesterday I was dead set on getting some blinky flashy on. Because of this I probably pushed my self way to much once things started going wrong. I should have just went to bed. This leads to #2...

2. Don't try to troubleshoot at 12:30 AM (unless of course you're usually up at that hour, which I am not)
I made some stupid mistakes last night because I was tired and just wanted the thing to work. Namely I left the grinch plugged into the SSR while trying to troubleshoot it and I believe the cable moved it too close to a spiral notebook that I had on my table and this shorted out the Allegro's on the grinch, thus leading to the previously working channels on the SSR to stop working. I ended up frying the Allegros, but fortunately I had two spares to test it with and the spares fired right up.

3. Don't assume it is just one thing.
Turns out my fuse holder wasn't quite soldered on right. The joint looked good, but it wasn't. This was leading to some of the flaky behavior I was experiencing. This in combination with the joint at R7 and frying the allegros started leading me in the wrong direction.

4. Don't assume anything.
Once those faulty joints started misleading me, I started thinking that I somehow fried the optos or the triacs. Tonight, after I fixed my grinch with new Allegros, I went back to the SSR, channels 1, 2, and 4 were working again, 3 was still not. I put one of the good optos in and still nothing, so I assumed it was the triac. I spent the better part of a half hour de-soldering the triac and putting a new one in. Sure enough this didn't fix it either. This is what ultimately led me to the bad joint on R7.

5. Make sure the AC is plugged in.
I don't know how many times tonight I unplugged the AC cord to swap something around and went to try it... then nothing. Within a few seconds I would realize the AC was still unplugged but it was still annoying.

6. The blinky flashy is SOOOO worth it.
I was getting pretty frustrated last night, but I should have just walked away and went to bed. Tonight when I had four strings of lights at my feet sequencing, it's hard to describe the feeling, but I'm sure you all know it.

Thanks again to everyone!

[kychristmas]

Congrats Chris! Glad you got it worked out.

[Murl]

Good job, Chris! And - thanks for posting your tips for everyone.

A suggestion for 5a: "Make sure the AC ISN'T plugged in." While troubleshooting a circuit that's not working, it's easy to forget that there are live voltages present. Make sure that you unplug it before reaching in and touching anything.

[Aurbo99]

I cant count how many times I've been so tired soldering to realize I didnt disconnect AC, which is probably why I never win the Lottery..

Fatigue + energized circuits = :shock:

The wash of realization of what you just did, or the shock from the zap.. they are about the same in my books.

Glad to hear your over the hurdle and barreling onwards.. Welcome to the "Dark Side" ... well at least until you get the blinky plugged in..