need advice

[chicorook]

up until this year the only controller i knew existed was the lor controllers. i am looking for 64 to 128 channels and am not exited about paying 2000+ for it. i currently have about 9000 lights in a static display. I am very excited about taking the next step and going animated (my wife calls it obsessed but i prefer exited). i have read every post possible on several web sites but i am still coming up just short of grasping this concept. i understand most of the process but there are a few parts i still need help with so ....here goes.
first off, is there anyone out there selling populated boards. i have never used a soldering iron and am aprehensive about trying. i will do so if needed but just checking all my options first.
second, this is where i am lost. it sounds like i can use multiple boards (ex. i can buy 32 channel board now and 3 more in time to total 128 channels)but i dont understand how they are connected together. do you run from your computer to the first controller and then from the first controller to the second and so on, or do you need a seperate port for each controller. if the latter then can you use one printer port and one usb (mix and match) or do you have to use one type of output.
last, unfortunately i still cannot pick a controller (yes, i have read the seven steps to selecting a controller). Ideally, i would like to place the controller in my garage (about 25ft. from computer). my yard is somewhat small so i could probably reach every corner with half 25ft extension cords and half 50ft. i realize that putting ssr's on board would mean a high cost in extension cords but with ssr's being in the field, now you have the cost of more enclosers, and you still have to buy cat5? to reach the ssr's and also the cost of buying all the female ends of extension cords to reach lights, not to mention power to the ssr's (more extension cords..i think). sorry so long winded. i am just trying to cover everything in one post. any help would be greatly appreciated!! thanks in advance. Jeremy

[TERBObob]

first off, is there anyone out there selling populated boards. i have never used a soldering iron and am aprehensive about trying. i will do so if needed but just checking all my options first.

no ... but you CAN find boards that folks completed on the FOR SALE section here .


second, this is where i am lost. it sounds like i can use multiple boards (ex. i can buy 32 channel board now and 3 more in time to total 128 channels)but i dont understand how they are connected together. do you run from your computer to the first controller and then from the first controller to the second and so on, or do you need a seperate port for each controller. if the latter then can you use one printer port and one usb (mix and match) or do you have to use one type of output.

yes , you can use multiple boards , just about in any configuration you can think of .
Example - you can hook to the one serial port - 1 REN 16 , then a REN 24 behind it , then another REN 16 , and a GRINCH with a REN C to those also .
And then you can use a plain GRINCH ( no REN C added to it ) connected to the parallel port
and you can have a PCI DIO 96 card installed in one your PCI slots .
The list of options goes on and on .... the above was just examples .


last, unfortunately i still cannot pick a controller (yes, i have read the seven steps to selecting a controller). Ideally, i would like to place the controller in my garage (about 25ft. from computer). my yard is somewhat small so i could probably reach every corner with half 25ft extension cords and half 50ft.

IMO - I would highly suggest going with the RENARD group of choices . I , myself , like the REN 24's . They have onboard SSR's and to me , makes it easy and simplier that way .

[bmcgeeny]

IMO - I would highly suggest going with the RENARD group of choices . I , myself , like the REN 24's . They have onboard SSR's and to me , makes it easy and simplier that way .

Ditto The 16 you can use a wall wart power supply and the 24 has it's own transformer on it.

Since this is your #1 post, step back, take a deep breath and read, read, read. Slowly read.

As for your budget, if you are looking at DIY stuff thinking it's a lot cheaper. It's not. Along with controllers to do it right you need a few tools (couple hundred bucks) and be prepared to have a few things not work the first time you try. (right Bob)

At 320 channels I am to the point where adding or changing channels is not very expensive, but the 1st hundred cost as much or more than if I had just bought LOR.

It is a lot better feeling to look at it working and say "I built that"

[TERBObob]

and be prepared to have a few things no work the first time you try. (right Bob)

LOL - you got that right - LOL

And a word of advice ...
When you DO decide which controllers you think you really want . think , think , and think ...
"cause somethimes the grass is NOT greener on the other side . "

[Ronp]

Welcome chicorook
Like the others have said we don’t encourage buying out controllers prebuilt,
if you should have any problems who are you going to have fix it? That’s why we build our own then you have enough knowledge to troubleshoot and fix it yourself.

Yes LOR is a bit pricy but you pay for there service D-light is another you can look into also http://www.d-light.us/

No matter what you end up buying you will still need extension cords lol.
As far as not having soldering experience, it only takes a few tries to get it down
Not that hard to do.

Most members here build our displays year round and it’s a full time hobby
And this forum is we come to get new ideas and to help others build there’s.

We have a live chat room were you can go at almost anytime of the day/night
And get help if needed or just chat about life.

As far as the cost DYI to Lor ect. Ours come with lots of friends’ lol.
And yes it cost less just take longer to get it.

[dnesci]

chicorook

Welcome and which everway you go with a controller, they will all work from your garage. If you use the Ren16 or Ren24 you will be running power to the yard from each board. If you use a Ren64 or Ren C & Grinch you will need to build SSR units for the yard. You will then be running 5volt computer signals to the SSRs in the yard.

I'm one of the few hear that is not running a newer Ren. I use the Ren C and Grinch combination and it has been flawless for two weeks now. (128 channels). But I am looking to build a Ren 64 for next year to determine if it is better FOR ME!

Whichever way you go, I was new a year ago and worked on building boards and decorations most of the year. The people here were very patient with me and got me through the building of all the electronics. Now that its going it was all worth it. I'm currently building more to add next year.

Good Luck

[chicorook]

thank you all for your advice. I can see clearly now!!! it appears as though i found myself a good group of people here. after reading, reading, and more reading i am thinking that the ren's are the way to go. I'm not sure i understand what makes you choose the ssr's onboard versus the decentralized method. i was under the impression that the reason for putting the ssr's out in your display would save in the cost of ext. cords but the way i picture it your going to have a bazillion cords anyway, so what makes you choose one or the other. thanks again for the quick response.

[TERBObob]

so what makes you choose one or the other

myself , I would rather have to pull my hair out over ONE board ( if something happens , and yep , it will - LOL ) and location , rather than check the GRINCH ( or OLSEN ) and then go find the proper SSR , and cat 5 cable and then have to check them .
With a REN , there is only the need to check ONE board ... :)

[djulien]

thank you all for your advice. I can see clearly now!!! it appears as though i found myself a good group of people here. after reading, reading, and more reading i am thinking that the ren's are the way to go. I'm not sure i understand what makes you choose the ssr's onboard versus the decentralized method. i was under the impression that the reason for putting the ssr's out in your display would save in the cost of ext. cords but the way i picture it your going to have a bazillion cords anyway, so what makes you choose one or the other. thanks again for the quick response.


I'm not sure i understand what makes you choose the ssr's onboard versus the decentralized method. i was under the impression that the reason for putting the ssr's out in your display would save in the cost of ext. cords but the way i picture it your going to have a bazillion cords anyway, so what makes you choose one or the other. thanks again for the quick response.

Welcome to the forum! There are many helpful people here.

I think it mostly comes down to personal preferences, since a correctly designed system will work either way, and how spread out your layout is. Some prefer to keep the high voltage stuff on a separate board from the controller, while others prefer to have it all in one package on the same board. Some prefer more cat5 cable, while others prefer more AC cords. Another factor is security - how likely is it that someone will damage or steal a controller vs. a simpler/less costly component such as SSRs.

You might want to take a try at drafting out a plan, then run it by some of the experts in this forum for comments and advice - they have a wealth of knowledge and experience, and sometimes it's easier to tap into that when you have a specific scenario in mind.

don

[sjwilson122]

Welcome chicorook. I am in the same boat as dnesci. I opted for the grinch and ren-c to start with and am also running 128 channels. I went this route because I had some of the parts and tools on hand already. Cat5 crimper,resistors, caps, leds, etc. I would have to assume you are looking at doing this for Christmas 2009. That gives you some time to watch for group buys, sales at electronics parts suppliers and even ebay. I was able to get two sets of six allegro chips as samples which gave me the chips for two controllers with four spares for free. Ebay saved me alot of money, picked up 300 bt137 triacs for $30.00, couple hundred rj45 jacks for .05 each, 1000 feet of cat5 for 40.00 shipped. Even my Belkin II transmitter came from ebay for 9.00 shipped.

The deals are out there and you can get started in this without a huge cash outlay. I have a little over $300.00 in my system and that includes a new show computer I just picked up on ebay for $65.00. The optos and Triacs seem to be the most expensive items as you need so many of them. They are pretty much used on all the sytems here. Those were the parts I spent the most time looking for. I scored on the triacs but not the optos, but what I saved on the triacs more than paid for the optos from mouser. If I had to do it all over again, knowing what I know now, the first thing I would do is download vixen and start using it. I am still learning what it can do and find new stuff everytime I use it.

Sit back relax and enjoy, learn how to use vixen and start scouring for parts now. If you wait until september it will be to late and you will have to pay premium prices just to get the items in time. Everyone here has been great helping me and I am sure they will do the same for you!

[WWNF911]

thank you all for your advice. I can see clearly now!!! it appears as though i found myself a good group of people here. after reading, reading, and more reading i am thinking that the ren's are the way to go. I'm not sure i understand what makes you choose the ssr's onboard versus the decentralized method. i was under the impression that the reason for putting the ssr's out in your display would save in the cost of ext. cords but the way i picture it your going to have a bazillion cords anyway, so what makes you choose one or the other. thanks again for the quick response.

SSR's onboard gives a better solution to running a lot of things that are grouped semi-close together in your yard. i.e. the tree which has the need for 16 channels you would have a very neat enclosure with your extension cords for power coming out but only 1 cat5 going in. This vs having 4 cat5's and all the extension cords for 4 SSR's with possibly 4 enclosures all bundled in a neat little pile or wart on the back of that tree. Thats how mine,.. I mean ....Or so I've heard :rolleyes:

[rstehle]

IMO, the Ren 16 is ideal for Mega Trees........ one of our experts developed what he called a Bazooka (4" PVC pipe with caps on the ends) that easily hold up to 3 or 4 boards (depending on how long you make it), which gives you up to 64 channels for a Mega Tree, strobes, stars, etc.. Here is a pic of one of my trees, you can barely even see the controllers near the base...... used a tripple with short cords for the tree, and a single with longer cords on it for the mini's. 1 cat 5 data cable and power, no extension cords at all.

[WWNF911]

IMO, the Ren 16 is ideal for Mega Trees........ one of our experts developed what he called a Bazooka (4" PVC pipe with caps on the ends) that easily hold up to 3 or 4 boards (depending on how long you make it), which gives you up to 64 channels for a Mega Tree, strobes, stars, etc.. Here is a pic of one of my trees, you can barely even see the controllers near the base...... used a tripple with short cords for the tree, and a single with longer cords on it for the mini's. 1 cat 5 data cable and power, no extension cords at all.

I started making plans to make the Bazooka, but settled on making "The Turret" ;)

Leon

PS - Really nice Randy. Youre right. You can barely see it. But "no extension cards at all"? Howd you do that? Plug lights straight to the board?

[rstehle]

But "no extension cards at all"? Howd you do that? Plug lights straight to the board?

Sorry, what meant was that no extra extension cords were needed. The controllers had cords of the proper length to reach their intended light strings.

P.S. great idea on the "turret"!

[JEEPGUY]

Chicorook,

Welcome to the board and Merry Christmas!

"I am very excited about taking the next step and going animated (my wife calls it obsessed but i prefer exited)."

LOL.

First, your wife is always right. Repeat after me "My wife is always right" HaHa. I have been married for 16 years.

Second, Admit that you are obsessed, or you will have to admit it after being on this board for any length of time.

Third, don't be afraid of the soldering iron. Last year I decided to go animated and found this site and had never used a soldering iron. I built two Grinches, 32 SSRs, a Ren C, a Ren T, and a LEDTricks. All have had no problems at all.

I will be adding some Renards to the line up next year for my trees.

Leon, You crack me up. "Turret" LOL

[djulien]

Sorry, what meant was that no extra extension cords were needed.

Actually, it is possible to do it with *no* extension cords (other than the 1 main one feeding the SSRs), by mounting the SSRs in a central location, say, at the base of the tree.

There are some photos of a centrally mounted SSR in this post:

this is my first year with a mega-tree (so I may be doing something stupid), but here are some pics of what I have so far ...

[EDIT] I finally wrote up what I did. It is at http://downloads.eshepherdsoflight.com/Howidid-MidiTree.pdf. There is a section showing the SSR connections and wiring, etc.

don