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Pcguy17
11-04-2017, 10:12 PM
Edit post #47 should now be the correct way.


okay, I hooked it up just to find out if it's right don't worry I'm not going to plug anything in. I still waiting to get my SSR
but trying get this project closer. I built a encloser todsy to hold the SSR and these outlets. plan to use the socket that has all 3 leads in the box for a regular socket so I could plug my 5v power into it or a power supply or whatever I might need... I have power wire to each outlet to the next.. the lables are for the wires that will be coming from each of the 8 SSR I've cut the hot tab on all 4 outlets that's mounted so I can have 2 separate outlets on each one.. I relized at least I think i have to run a hot wire from.the one socket to the SSR board also then kinds like I did with the outlets piggy back from one ssr channel to the next one.. correct?
I have try to read and watch videos and there are a ton of videos showing people's hooked it up but Noone really explains at least for this guy how to connect it where I 100% understsnd..
electricity isn't something I like to play with if it was just 12v ild just try it and say heck if not right but not when comes to 110v or higher. I don't want to catch anything on fire..

thanks muxh everyone on this site has been so helpful to everyone



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MikeKrebs
11-05-2017, 01:27 AM
it looks right from a wiring standpoint. if it were me, I would only use green for the ground. white for the neutral, black for hots. It conforms to the standard that way.

MikeKrebs
11-05-2017, 01:30 AM
hold on.... do you have the relay plugs' neutrals connected to the hot side of the first plug? not right!

Pcguy17
11-05-2017, 01:54 AM
hold on.... do you have the relay plugs' neutrals connected to the hot side of the first plug? not right!
I just picked a color I guess. the left side of the outlet is connected to the left side of all the other outlets..
the hot side I clipped the hot bar off is the side the relays hook to right?

was hoping some the guys recently did this would see this

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Jediosu
11-05-2017, 02:44 AM
What the previous person is saying is that you Daisy chained your four relay outlets together on their neutral, which is correct, then you connected those four chained outlets to your feed outlets hot, this is NOT correct. Using the standard for green ground, white neutral, and black load will help keep you straight. Chain your relays neutrals to the feed neutral, chain the grounds to feed ground. Then the feed hot (black wire) goes to one of the terminals on each relay. The other terminal on each relay then goes to the hot on one outlet. At no point should a neutral connect to a hot.

mrGrumpy
11-05-2017, 02:45 AM
First, let's define what the SSR switches; the Line or the Neutral.
In the normal world you switch the LINE (black) not the neutral (white), however if the SSB switches the neutral then you are forced to use that, otherwise switch the line (black)
Never use green for anything except ground. Buy some fresh wire from Home Depot or Lowes. Wire is cheap, life is only once.
Use Black for your Line and White for your Neutral.
If SSR can switch Line, Use switching Line and bring Black wire to receptacles. If you are forced to switch the Neutrals, then bring White wire from the SSR
Brass color screws are Line (black) Silver screws are Neutral (white)
Don't try to switch power supplies, except on for the show and off after the show. There is too much of a delay to blink flash thru power supplies.
You say you cut the hot tabs.....did you cut the Brass tabs (hot-line-black) or the Silver tabs (neutral-white)

mrGrumpy
11-05-2017, 02:52 AM
What the previous person is saying is that you Daisy chained your four relay outlets together on their neutral, which is correct, then you connected those four chained outlets to your feed outlets hot, this is NOT correct. Using the standard for green ground, white neutral, and black load will help keep you straight. Chain your relays neutrals to the feed neutral, chain the grounds to feed ground. Then the feed hot (black wire) goes to one of the terminals on each relay. The other terminal on each relay then goes to the hot on one outlet. At no point should a neutral connect to a hot.

I also agree with this wiring issue. We can see the miss wring based on the ground location. Align all ground terminal to the bottom and you will see the receptacle with the plug is wired differently.

wirenut1980
11-05-2017, 09:20 AM
3800538006
This is the setup I used in the past. Just as the others said, change out that green wire with a white one then connect it to the white wire on the outlet you don't have mounted yet. On that same outlet a black wire connected to the black wire you already have connected will then go to supply power to each of your relays. Then use black wire to make the connections to the relays from each outlet. This will make things much easier especially when making future repairs. Break the tab only on the copper screw side and leave the tab intact on the silver screw side. Each relay will connect to a single screw on the copper side of the outlet providing 2 separate outlets as the picture you have depicts.

Pcguy17
11-05-2017, 10:06 AM
I broke the tab on the copper side. and I have wire I just used green. the drop cord had green,black,white wire I didn't know what color to use this is just to find out if it's right. ever single outlet including the non mounted on has the green wire connected to the silver side of the outlet and I left the copper side open for my relays to connect.
a friend of mine keeps trying to tell me white is hot and black is neutral but I think he's confused. I've got to get some ends to put on the wires I will use white wires in the end.
so the wire from the group of plugs needs to go to the left side also on the separate outlet. where does the white wire from the plug in need to go then?


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Pcguy17
11-05-2017, 10:11 AM
3800538006
This is the setup I used in the past. Just as the others said, change out that green wire with a white one then connect it to the white wire on the outlet you don't have mounted yet. On that same outlet a black wire connected to the black wire you already have connected will then go to supply power to each of your relays. Then use black wire to make the connections to the relays from each outlet. This will make things much easier especially when making future repairs. Break the tab only on the copper screw side and leave the tab intact on the silver screw side. Each relay will connect to a single screw on the copper side of the outlet providing 2 separate outlets as the picture you have depicts.
Thanks, I think i understand now. I just changed that one wire so this is right

post #47 now should be correct.

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ezellner
11-05-2017, 01:56 PM
Thanks, I think i understand now. I just changed that one wire so this is right now? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171105/6806c3d2376ba42bc642c1aec0f7e4f2.jpg

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The connections look right now. I would change the green wires to white (except for the ground wire on the first receptacle) and make sure you use black for the hot wires. It might keep you or someone else from electrocuting themselves. For standard house wiring, black is always the hot wire. Someone told me the way to remember is that black means death. I've never forgotten. Again this assumes your SSRs switch line voltage and not the neutral.

Pcguy17
11-05-2017, 02:35 PM
The connections look right now. I would change the green wires to white (except for the ground wire on the first receptacle) and make sure you use black for the hot wires. It might keep you or someone else from electrocuting themselves. For standard house wiring, black is always the hot wire. Someone told me the way to remember is that black means death. I've never forgotten. Again this assumes your SSRs switch line voltage and not the neutral.
alright I'm going to change them to white tonight.
So there more then one way to switch them on? I'm just trying to do it however needs to be done. again lots utube videos but Noone really goes into details on how to wire it up. guess they assume most understand this stuff more then I do..

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Bwinter
11-05-2017, 03:24 PM
alright I'm going to change them to white tonight.
So there more then one way to switch them on? I'm just trying to do it however needs to be done. again lots utube videos but Noone really goes into details on how to wire it up. guess they assume most understand this stuff more then I do..

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You're dealing with 120 AC, which can be lethal. For the safety of everyone around you, you shouldn't be doing this without a firm grasp of what you're doing. Right now, you're merely doing this based on a hodge-podge of youtube videos and a few random commentors who can't even assess your whole plan/devices.

Look at how easily the rest of us make mistakes in the 12v world. We get a puff of smoke when we mis-wire. At 120v, it's much worse.

Pcguy17
11-05-2017, 04:10 PM
You're dealing with 120 AC, which can be lethal. For the safety of everyone around you, you shouldn't be doing this without a firm grasp of what you're doing. Right now, you're merely doing this based on a hodge-podge of youtube videos and a few random commentors who can't even assess your whole plan/devices.

Look at how easily the rest of us make mistakes in the 12v world. We get a puff of smoke when we mis-wire. At 120v, it's much worse.
Yes they can cause there are people who has done this same thing.. it's just Noone has posted detailed to how to hook it up. The reason why I posted to have other double check what I've done before snything is plugged in so nothing does smoke.

hooking a raspberry pi to ssr for christmas lights isn't new look on YouTube tons have done it just Noone goes into full details of the wiring they just say hey look at my lights.

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mrGrumpy
11-05-2017, 06:31 PM
Take a look at this - RED are your white wires....couldn't draw white wire this week.
38014

Pcguy17
11-05-2017, 06:49 PM
Take a look at this - RED are your white wires....couldn't draw white wire this week.
38014
Thanks, so your supplying the relay line and power both from.the ssr right
I thought you only supplied from the relay for making it come on and off

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mrGrumpy
11-05-2017, 07:18 PM
Thanks, so your supplying the relay line and power both from.the ssr right
I thought you only supplied from the relay for making it come on and off

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The neutral should come from the SSR along with the line. I show it with 1 neutral every receptacle because a single wire to all 8 receptacles may be too much load for one wire or one terminal point on the SSR.

Pcguy17
11-05-2017, 08:24 PM
The neutral should come from the SSR along with the line. I show it with 1 neutral every receptacle because a single wire to all 8 receptacles may be too much load for one wire or one terminal point on the SSR.
I had only seen it done with the one wire that seems be how everyone does it so the way you do it you feel gives you better power to each outlet.

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Jediosu
11-05-2017, 08:49 PM
I used this SSR:
https://www.amazon.com/SainSmart-8-Channel-Duemilanove-MEGA2560-MEGA1280/dp/B006J4G45G/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1509927805&sr=8-6&keywords=sainsmart+relay

it only switches the line or neutral, not both. I chose to switch the line. I tried to draw out a rough diagram of how I did it. Again, I'm not a licensed electrician or anything of the sort, I'm a computer programmer so take it as you wish. If you have questions find someone who understands wiring AC outlets or take it to your local hardware store and ask them to "reality check" your setup before you plug it in.

I used black, white, and green wire as per standard use. my picture has different colors so you can see it.

38016

wirenut1980
11-05-2017, 08:55 PM
The set up looks better. If you can, post the info of the ssr relays you are getting. This way we can draw an accurate wiring diagram to help out. I'm glad you are asking for help so that you can learn. That's what this hobby and fourm are all about.

Pcguy17
11-05-2017, 09:05 PM
I used this SSR:
https://www.amazon.com/SainSmart-8-Channel-Duemilanove-MEGA2560-MEGA1280/dp/B006J4G45G/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1509927805&sr=8-6&keywords=sainsmart+relay

it only switches the line or neutral, not both. I chose to switch the line. I tried to draw out a rough diagram of how I did it. Again, I'm not a licensed electrician or anything of the sort, I'm a computer programmer so take it as you wish. If you have questions find someone who understands wiring AC outlets or take it to your local hardware store and ask them to "reality check" your setup before you plug it in.

I used black, white, and green wire as per standard use. my picture has different colors so you can see it.

38016
Okay, so the ground also needs to run from each outlet also? none ever showed a ground that i could see anyways so was wondering..
your red wire is how i planed to do mine just go from each channel on the SSR to the next one...
then the black from each channel on the SSR to each outlet for the 8 channels

Pcguy17
11-05-2017, 09:09 PM
The set up looks better. If you can, post the info of the ssr relays you are getting. This way we can draw an accurate wiring diagram to help out. I'm glad you are asking for help so that you can learn. That's what this hobby and fourm are all about.

this is the one i have on order and will be using to start with... Im thinking to switch to a USB one however but there all about the same right
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0057OC5WK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
One thing i still not sure is driffrence from a 5v or a 12v one..
this is the usb one https://www.amazon.com/SainSmart-Eight-Channel-Relay-Automation/dp/B0093Y89DE/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1449201348&sr=8-1&keywords=usb+relay&linkCode=sl1&tag=cabo0a-20&linkId=1eec23eb8e74cef314d69cbb7216da82


i am one of those that say until you do something you will never know how to do something. i am a mechanic, have always worked on my own cars. i learned by watching and asking questions.. I wanted to learn HTML and i taught myself it by reading online.

Pcguy17
11-06-2017, 03:06 PM
okay I redid my wires, did them the colors yall said I should.. I guess I should add a green from the hot outlet to the 4 other plugs also
I just used what wire I had left from before

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171106/ce98399a01e4e1e05ab4c6c9b665d34d.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171106/ac891733280a142770c9cc86cc634f0b.jpg

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ezellner
11-06-2017, 07:17 PM
okay I redid my wires, did them the colors yall said I should.. I guess I should add a green from the hot outlet to the 4 other plugs also
I just used what wire I had left from before

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171106/ce98399a01e4e1e05ab4c6c9b665d34d.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171106/ac891733280a142770c9cc86cc634f0b.jpg

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Definitely add the green from the hot outlet to the others otherwise the ground wires aren't doing anything.

mh99
11-06-2017, 07:50 PM
looks good now! I think

Pcguy17
11-06-2017, 07:57 PM
Okay so I got my SSR and no instructions, oh well been trying to find pictures online of one's hooked up and seems most only show how to connect the gpio pins to them not connecting anything else so ok is this right. I know each red wire needs to be together and conector to the main outlet but I couldn't get two wires in the holes on the ssr together so I'm going to use something to conector them all together.
the black wires are the ones to turn on the outlets. I've only hooked up the first 4 outlets. wanted make sure was right.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171106/69f7f9f0d41b9d65a9c62b861821eaf3.jpg

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wirenut1980
11-06-2017, 08:58 PM
So far so good. The only thing I can see you need is; all the red wires that you have going to the center screw for each relay will need to be connected to the Black wire on the Plug. I made a diagram for you to follow. I was trying to get something together for you to have as a guide. 38054

Pcguy17
11-06-2017, 09:10 PM
So far so good. The only thing I can see you need is; all the red wires that you have going to the center screw for each relay will need to be connected to the Black wire on the Plug. I made a diagram for you to follow. I was trying to get something together for you to have as a guide. 38054
thanks for the diagram, yeah the black wire is huge and doesn't like to bend was going to use it where the red is. but don't have any smaller black wire. I will post when get more finished.

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jmruth72
11-06-2017, 10:00 PM
Hello,

I see several layers of issues at the moment. So I have some questions.

1) How many Amps is each SSR rated?
2) Do you intend on EVER pushing each SSR to it's limits?

Depending on the answers to these two questions there are a number of specifications that may have to change to ensure electrical safety.

Specifically, I am concerned about overloading wires, plugs, relays, etc. leading to fire, shock, or destroyed equipment.

Regards,

John.

wirenut1980
11-06-2017, 10:01 PM
You could run a separate black wire to each relay and use a connector like this 38055

Pcguy17
11-06-2017, 10:29 PM
Hello,

I see several layers of issues at the moment. So I have some questions.

1) How many Amps is each SSR rated?
2) Do you intend on EVER pushing each SSR to it's limits?

Depending on the answers to these two questions there are a number of specifications that may have to change to ensure electrical safety.

Specifically, I am concerned about overloading wires, plugs, relays, etc. leading to fire, shock, or destroyed equipment.

Regards,

John.
10 amps from what i understand
the outlets are 15amps
So No i don't plan to max them out... But i think im using bigger wires then most use... its 14 gauge


You could run a separate black wire to each relay and use a connector like this 38055

what are those called? not seen them before.. i planed to use some quick connectors like this https://www.delcity.net/store/Quick-Splice-Connector-!-18!14-Gauge/p_9373.h_152554 but after thinking a little more not sure they would work well... that one you show would be better i think if i had what 4 of them i could connect them all together.

Pcguy17
11-06-2017, 10:34 PM
Now i have the board i have another question are you guys just running the SSR from the 5v power on the Pi?
the ground is open the the jumper is on the two right pins..... if i wanted to use a separate 5V power supply i would just not connect the 5v from the gpio and take the jumper off and connect a 5 volt charger to the the ground and jd plug?
Im still not sure how it works having a 110V power and 5v or 12v depending on the relay going to it.I understand the Christmas lights need power im guessing that's why the 110v is needed.
I found a good deal on a LOR controller. and want to buy it, im going to try to get it next couple days and this project will end up being something else to play with cause im still not 100% sure about it.

wirenut1980
11-06-2017, 10:45 PM
The connecters I posted are called push in connectors. They should have them at the hardware stores. If not try Amazon. The blue connectors you posted are to be used for low voltage wiring only. Like in your cars 12v system. Do not use them to connect AC current as this could be dangerous. The way the relays work is there is a 5v side {if that's what the rating is on yours} that is the controlling side from the pi. The switching side is the high voltage side. They work kinda like your light switch. There is 110v in your home walls. Pretend you are the raspberry pi. Your brain says turn on the light. You use a low voltage energy {your hand} and flip the switch controlling the high voltage. Like a relay you are physically touching the switch but never the high voltage. The 5v and 110v are going to be somewhat in the same location but never touch.

wirenut1980
11-06-2017, 10:47 PM
The lor board will be a learning curve also. But will have the heavy work done for you as far as the circuits go.

jmruth72
11-06-2017, 10:51 PM
10 amps from what i understand
the outlets are 15amps
So No i don't plan to max them out... But i think im using bigger wires then most use... its 14 gauge.

Ok, So my concerns are confirmed and it leads me to a few more questions.
1) How many power feeds are you going to have coming in to this enclosure?
2) How many Amps per feed?
3) Are you going to fuse the outlets?
4) If yes, what size fuses are you going to use?
If the SSR’s are rated at 10 Amp and you only load them to 5 Amps with 8 relays you are still looking at 40 Amps. Of course fully loaded that is 80 Amps and this is a huge problem with how you are wiring them. The daisy chained neutral is not big enough to handle anywhere near 40 Amps, much less 80 Amps. I am not sure that your Ground is even big enough in the event of a case short to Ground.
Some more detail as to what you are trying to run with this as far as electrical load would be immensely helpful in helping you build a safe and functional circuit.
Regards,
John.

Pcguy17
11-06-2017, 11:25 PM
The connecters I posted are called push in connectors. They should have them at the hardware stores. If not try Amazon. The blue connectors you posted are to be used for low voltage wiring only. Like in your cars 12v system. Do not use them to connect AC current as this could be dangerous. The way the relays work is there is a 5v side {if that's what the rating is on yours} that is the controlling side from the pi. The switching side is the high voltage side. They work kinda like your light switch. There is 110v in your home walls. Pretend you are the raspberry pi. Your brain says turn on the light. You use a low voltage energy {your hand} and flip the switch controlling the high voltage. Like a relay you are physically touching the switch but never the high voltage. The 5v and 110v are going to be somewhat in the same location but never touch.

Oh, i didn't even think about that with the connectors.. only hardware store around my town is a family owned place that never had what i need. but i bet another place i know about would have them or i will just order some online.

The lor board will be a learning curve also. But will have the heavy work done for you as far as the circuits go.
Why you say that? its already build.. just plug up the two cords, and a Ethernet cable and set the Vixen for it and turn it on should be...
your right i wont have to be building anything.


Ok, So my concerns are confirmed and it leads me to a few more questions.
1) How many power feeds are you going to have coming in to this enclosure?
2) How many Amps per feed?
3) Are you going to fuse the outlets?
4) If yes, what size fuses are you going to use?
If the SSR’s are rated at 10 Amp and you only load them to 5 Amps with 8 relays you are still looking at 40 Amps. Of course fully loaded that is 80 Amps and this is a huge problem with how you are wiring them. The daisy chained neutral is not big enough to handle anywhere near 40 Amps, much less 80 Amps. I am not sure that your Ground is even big enough in the event of a case short to Ground.
Some more detail as to what you are trying to run with this as far as electrical load would be immensely helpful in helping you build a safe and functional circuit.
Regards,
John.

1> Power feeds? only one, as main power. it have 5v from the PI then the 110 from the plug in.
2>Amps, not sure i have to test some lights and do some math
3>fuse the outlets? you mean from the outlets themselves? isnt that what the Relays do? im not sure how you would fuse those... I mean all christmas lights have fuses inside the plug in for them
4> its 10 amps per relay.. and so there are just 2 sockets on one outlet.. so you don't think you can pull 20 amps through 14 gaudge wire?

I don't get why it would be any driffrent from me plugging in (6) 100 light sets of lights into a 100 foot drop cord that is plugged into a outlet on the side of the house?

I know for a fact that Christmas lights really don't pull that many amps.. LED christmas lights even less...
I run 2 sets of 100 light Christmas lights, along with a lighted candy cane, a 2 foot Santa Claus figure off of a 200 watt power inventor on my truck every year it runs all of that just fine. I think i was at around 2 amps total. its been a while since i checked it i will be checking them again this year want to add more so might use my 400watt inventor. Are you a licensed electrician?

You should check out this guys set up.... it looks.... interesting to say the least

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m83UdW67hVY

Bwinter
11-06-2017, 11:50 PM
You’re given a lot of good VALID advice. I don’t understand why you won’t listen.

Pcguy17
11-07-2017, 12:22 AM
You’re given a lot of good VALID advice. I don’t understand why you won’t listen.

What do you mean? I came here looking for help from people who has done the same exact thing i am wanting to do.. and i have tried to do what people have told me.

Jediosu
11-07-2017, 10:25 AM
1> Power feeds? only one, as main power. it have 5v from the PI then the 110 from the plug in.
2>Amps, not sure i have to test some lights and do some math
3>fuse the outlets? you mean from the outlets themselves? isnt that what the Relays do? im not sure how you would fuse those... I mean all christmas lights have fuses inside the plug in for them
4> its 10 amps per relay.. and so there are just 2 sockets on one outlet.. so you don't think you can pull 20 amps through 14 gaudge wire?

I don't get why it would be any driffrent from me plugging in (6) 100 light sets of lights into a 100 foot drop cord that is plugged into a outlet on the side of the house?

I know for a fact that Christmas lights really don't pull that many amps.. LED christmas lights even less...
I run 2 sets of 100 light Christmas lights, along with a lighted candy cane, a 2 foot Santa Claus figure off of a 200 watt power inventor on my truck every year it runs all of that just fine. I think i was at around 2 amps total. its been a while since i checked it i will be checking them again this year want to add more so might use my 400watt inventor. Are you a licensed electrician?



There isn't a difference in running 2 LED light strings off this or off a single extension cord. But that is the information people need to know to tell you if your wiring will work. Each relay is rated for 10 amps, making the relay board capable of passing 80 amps. However, your "feed" power cord isn't rated for 80 amps, and most likely the outlet you'll run this off of isn't rated for 80 amps, and the wire daisy chain isn't rated for 80 amps etc. The point they're making is they need to know what the max load you're designing for is. No one can tell you "your setup looks correct and safe" without knowing what you're going to plug into it. If you plan on using less than 2amps per outlet, that is what people need to know to help you.

Pcguy17
11-07-2017, 10:57 AM
well channel I know for a fact that these will have these amounts on them
channel #8 )50 lights LED
#7)50 lights LED
#6 )200 lights LED
#5) 100 or 200 at max encans
#4-1 are the ones I need to test. I want those to run my megs tree ( it's only a 10 ft tree with encans lights) also I wanted it to run 200 lights on each of my mini trees. but maybe that would be to much power? I've not got my tester out to test them yet.

so what is a safe amount to run through this set up? I know the LOR boxes have 2 110v plug ins for power. and been told they need to be plugged into driffrent outlets on driffrent breakers to get there full 30 amps of power but I'm sure I'm not pulling 30 amps at least never at once... these are sqenced lights so there never all on at the same time..

I appreciate the ones trying to help and well you just built same thing how many lights are you planing to hook up to urs?

So sold all of the daisy chained neutrals and white wires be split in the middle and have a input plug on each half? hard to half 5 of something guess 2 could be on one side and 3 on the other .

at this point I'm so frustrated I'm about to just drag out my Mr christmas box and use it again. and spend the money I was going to buy a lor box and buy lot more led lights
thanks

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Jediosu
11-07-2017, 11:15 AM
My SSR is rated for 2 amps per relay, total of 16 amps at max. I built mine with a max of 16 amps in design, but I'm only using .5 amp per outlet and don't intend to ever have more than 1 amp per outlet. With 100 count LED strings from Wal-Mart this equates to about 10 strings for 1 amp (1000 lights!). If you can't fit 2 wires in your relay to chain them then I would recommend running a short wire from your "feed outlet" to each relay instead of using smaller wire.

ezellner
11-07-2017, 11:15 AM
well channel I know for a fact that these will have these amounts on them
channel #8 )50 lights LED
#7)50 lights LED
#6 )200 lights LED
#5) 100 or 200 at max encans
#4-1 are the ones I need to test. I want those to run my megs tree ( it's only a 10 ft tree with encans lights) also I wanted it to run 200 lights on each of my mini trees. but maybe that would be to much power? I've not got my tester out to test them yet.

so what is a safe amount to run through this set up? I know the LOR boxes have 2 110v plug ins for power. and been told they need to be plugged into driffrent outlets on driffrent breakers to get there full 30 amps of power but I'm sure I'm not pulling 30 amps at least never at once... these are sqenced lights so there never all on at the same time..

I appreciate the ones trying to help and well you just built same thing how many lights are you planing to hook up to urs?

So sold all of the daisy chained neutrals and white wires be split in the middle and have a input plug on each half? hard to half 5 of something guess 2 could be on one side and 3 on the other .

at this point I'm so frustrated I'm about to just drag out my Mr christmas box and use it again. and spend the money I was going to buy a lor box and buy lot more led lights
thanks

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One standard outlet has a maximum rating of 15 amps so that is the most you should plan for. If there are other things on this circuit that will be on at the same time, you need to consider those, too, so the total doesn't exceed 15 amps. Your wiring should be 14 gauge or better. If your wiring is 14 gauge, you don't need to split the neutrals. Your house wiring is set-up in a similar fashion, i.e. multiple plugs on one power feed. Frustration is part of the learning process but as with many things, the end result is worth it. Hang in there!

Pcguy17
11-07-2017, 11:34 AM
My SSR is rated for 2 amps per relay, total of 16 amps at max. I built mine with a max of 16 amps in design, but I'm only using .5 amp per outlet and don't intend to ever have more than 1 amp per outlet. With 100 count LED strings from Wal-Mart this equates to about 10 strings for 1 amp (1000 lights!). If you can't fit 2 wires in your relay to chain them then I would recommend running a short wire from your "feed outlet" to each relay instead of using smaller wire.
oh wow only 2 amps. I thought they were all 10 amp I guess like anything you can get driffrent rated anything .

my mega tree has 1300 lights on it so I'm guessing that's to much for this set up. it's not 1300 on one channel it has 4 sets of lights on it red,green,blue,clear it has 300 of each color on it and i wanted to hook each color to a driffrent output.
so maybe that wouldn't be to much but there not led so I have to test how many amps they pull

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Jediosu
11-07-2017, 11:43 AM
It sounds like you got a mechanical relay where I have a solid state one, thus the difference in ratings. The above advice for designing around 15 amps maximum sounds like a good idea. Once you know how much power each string and decoration uses you'll have a good idea of what you can do.

Pcguy17
11-07-2017, 11:51 AM
It sounds like you got a mechanical relay where I have a solid state one, thus the difference in ratings. The above advice for designing around 15 amps maximum sounds like a good idea. Once you know how much power each string and decoration uses you'll have a good idea of what you can do.
mines suppose to be a SSR it's the sainsmart 8 channel one. from amazon
I will figure out the amps for everything today

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caretaker
11-07-2017, 05:30 PM
Yes, but you should still use white for the neutral and green for ground....

Pcguy17
11-07-2017, 06:06 PM
Green is ground and white netural

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171107/6d9aec7dc928087ad286c6db1b67de84.jpg

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jmruth72
11-07-2017, 11:00 PM
Hello,

In the interest of clarity I am going to answer one question at a time.
1> Power feeds? only one, as main power. it have 5v from the PI then the 110 from the plug in.
Yes that is what I mean. If your 115 volt supply is the only thing on that circuit breaker you will normally have a maximum of 15 Amps (I say normally because most houses do not have a dedicated breaker where only one outlet is on it, much less a 20 Amp circuit.) If you have a dedicated circuit that is 15 Amp, please DO NOT change the breaker for a 20 Amp without confirming that the wire leading to the outlet is big enough. If it is and you change the breaker, change the outlet to a 20 Amp outlet to prevent confusion.
2>Amps, not sure i have to test some lights and do some math
This is important information as it allows you to select the correct size wire for the job.
3>fuse the outlets? you mean from the outlets themselves? isnt that what the Relays do? im not sure how you would fuse those... I mean all christmas lights have fuses inside the plug in for them
Yes, a fuse in between each SSR and the outlet assigned to that SSR. Relays are not fuses. A fuses job is to protect everything else in the circuit before the fuse. In this case the wiring, the SSR, your house, and most importantly your life. Select your fuse size based on the WEAKEST link in your system. (Example; if the wire you select is only rated for 5 Amps but everything else is rated to 15 Amps, then select a 5 Amp fuse. Yes, Christmas lights have a fuse but it only really protects that string. Try to connect to many in a row and it will blow the fuse, but if that fuse has a higher rating than the wire you select for the outlet then you will fry the wire and possibly cause a fire.
4> its 10 amps per relay.. and so there are just 2 sockets on one outlet.. so you don't think you can pull 20 amps through 14 gaudge wire?
NO, 14 gauge wire is only rated at 15 Amps. If you google Ampacity chart one of the first links that comes up is from a company called Cerrowire and is quite handy for just about anything over 14 gauge wire. Please notice that different types of wire have different ratings. Not all 14 gauge wire is created equal. Also when you daisy chain outlets like that if you expect every outlet to be able to carry the same load then the primary feed wire must be rated to carry the total load. The next jumper must be sized to carry the total load minus the first load, and so on until you are down to the last outlet in the string.
(example 4 outlets rated at 15 Amps. The primary lead MUST be rated 60 Amps, the first jumper MUST be rated at 45 Amps, the second jumper at 30 Amps, and the last jumper at 15 Amps. Now that is assuming that ALL outlets are going to carry 15 Amps and you have a 60 Amp service. If your service is rated at 15 Amps, then all wiring can be rated at 15 Amps because the service breaker will not let the current go much over that). There is a fair bit of design that goes into this and it can be overwhelming, but you apparently want to learn and that is a good thing.

I don't get why it would be any driffrent from me plugging in (6) 100 light sets of lights into a 100 foot drop cord that is plugged into a outlet on the side of the house?
Essentially it isn't, but just like your drop cord you have to make sure you don't connect so much stuff that you pop a circuit breaker or cause a fire. That is why for the house we rent I had to make an exterior rated circuit breaker box that I could power from our dryer outlet to power our Christmas decorations.

I know for a fact that Christmas lights really don't pull that many amps.. LED christmas lights even less...
Depends on how many you have. We have somewhere around 20 Amps worth of lights and about another 20 Amps worth of inflatables. Thankfully the power box I built can safely handle 60 Amps at 115 Volts.

I run 2 sets of 100 light Christmas lights, along with a lighted candy cane, a 2 foot Santa Claus figure off of a 200 watt power inventor on my truck every year it runs all of that just fine. I think i was at around 2 amps total. its been a while since i checked it i will be checking them again this year want to add more so might use my 400watt inventor.
That's awesome, but how many Amps are you pulling. This is where it gets confusing. Some electrical items are rated in Watts, others in Amps. Bulbs for example are rated in Watts, as are generators, invertors, and you are charged by the electrical company for how many Watts you use. Fuses are rated in Amps, as are refrigerators, freezers, and a number of other things. So what is the difference at that is hard to explain. However it is much simpler to tell you how to convert from one to the other.
To convert from Watts to Amps is = Watts (your inverter puts out 200) / Volts (your inverter puts out 115) = Amps (Your inverter puts out 1.74)
To convert from Amps to Watts is = Amps (your inverter puts out 1.74) * Volts (your inverter puts out 115) = Watts (your inverter puts out 200)
I hope that this is starting to make sense.

Are you a licensed electrician?
Nope, I spent 8 years in the Navy as an electronics type technician, 5 years post Navy building hydraulic power supplies and the shop defacto electrician, among various other electrical and electronic jobs since. That is how I was able to design and build my power box. I can fix pretty much anything with even half decent documentation, but I also know when to deviate from a design because it is stupid unsafe. I did it a lot a the company where I built hydraulic power supplies because the designers were constantly doing dumb things like putting 115 Volt rated items in a 230 Volt circuit. After a while it became expected that I would just fix it, so they didn't care to do so themselves.

You should check out this guys set up.... it looks.... interesting to say the least

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m83UdW67hVY

Yep, that is an interesting setup and maybe one day I will build something similar. However with that small of wire I would have had every output fused to prevent accidently putting something that draws enough Amps to do damage

Hope this helps explain my concerns and makes your learning curve a little simpler.[/QUOTE]

Regards,
John.

Pcguy17
11-07-2017, 11:13 PM
I gave up this project. I am to worried to try and plug power to the outlets I made. I am just going to keep using my Mr christmas box. I think someone makes a updated one that will take a mp3 player for ur own music. maybe one day I can figure all this stuff out. Thanks to everyone's who's posted in this thread to try to help me. if I had the option to close it I would.
Thinking about trying to put retro pie on the Raspberry and use it for gaming.

I might buy some 12 volt christmas lights and just hook them up to relays and not need the 110v power



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jmruth72
11-07-2017, 11:34 PM
I gave up this project. I am to worried to try and plug power to the outlets I made. I am just going to keep using my Mr christmas box. I think someone makes a updated one that will take a mp3 player for ur own music. maybe one day I can figure all this stuff out. Thanks to everyone's who's posted in this thread to try to help me. if I had the option to close it I would.
Thinking about trying to put retro pie on the Raspberry and use it for gaming.

I might buy some 12 volt christmas lights and just hook them up to relays and not need the 110v power



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I'm sorry to hear that, however it is better to be safe than sorry. If you want to PM me with specs (SSR ratings for example) and what you want it to do (like power 8 single outlets) along with a pic of the equipment involved I could draw you up a simple to follow schematic complete with wire gauges, wire color coding, fuses, etc.

Regards,
John

Bwinter
11-08-2017, 07:50 PM
It's never too early to start planning for next year. Think about what you want to accomplish, and start draft up some plans/sketches. Watch what other people are doing, and get some ideas.

I think part of your problem was that you simply started too late (2 months prior to Christmas) and never had a clear plan for what you wanted to accomplish (you originally wanted some simply chasing arches, then ended up with 120AC on/off relays).

Start early, and play around a bit (try smart LEDs vs simple on/off AC strands). Look at what products other people are using (there are plenty of AC relays kits available that are used). It can be difficult (for everyone involved) to try to make a random Amazon/Ebay/Alibaba product work. Is AC really the path you want to take in your design (i.e., is that really what you want to invest time in learning and purchasing?).

Pcguy17
11-08-2017, 10:39 PM
Well when already have 6,000 or so regularly lights, but would like to add some.RGBs next yr I'm try learn more about them after the new yeah.

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