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Macrosill
10-01-2008, 09:44 AM
Do what ever you want.






I see issues arising but no one else does so forget all I said and do what ever you want. I am the Big Bad Wolf. I am wrong and you are right. Forget all my rules and just do what ever you want. Sell everything, who cares. Let me know when an administrative issue arises and I will see what I can do about it. It may be difficult with no rules.

I apologize to offending everyone, my bad. I do not know what I am talking about.

awhaley
10-01-2008, 10:57 AM
Hey Brian! If it matters, you didn't offend me! lol.

I understand it's frustrating - you can't please everyone, and some days you can't please anyone. You've done the right thing in my opinion - telling everyone what you want to see and not see on YOUR forum. These days for 6 bucks a month, or less, anyone can start a forum, so if they need to post somewhere else, they can make their very own forum and try to sell kidneys and talk about how to best integrate C-4 into their christmas displays. None of us have to like the rules, and we only have to live by them as long as we want to post here... But my guess is that because you've built the BEST resource on the subject and you have a proven history of running a top-notch forum, nobody's leaving over this. So grab a beer and let people whine till they fall down, and you'll still have the coolest forum on plugging your blender into your C64 and making it Puree in time to Every Rose Has It's Thorn...

Art

lbro
10-01-2008, 01:32 PM
Brian-

This forum is your (and a few others) child. It is now acting up. You (we) need to be a parent at this time. The rules were set. They were posted. Modified when needed. Held firm when not. The family has gotten as big as it is because of that. Stand firm. It will work out, it has so far.

omzig
10-01-2008, 02:51 PM
Brian, I have been a part of many Internet forums at various levels, and hands down, this is by far the best one in so many ways. A large part it's success is due to the fantastic job you have done running it.

Of course rules are necessary. It would be nice if everyone agreed with all of the rules, but that's never going to happen. You can't please everyone, which makes your job very difficult at times. I don't think that there are many here that would like to see the forum move away from DIY and become commercial. IMHO, things regarding this issue aren't broken, but merely bent a little. I don't think that sudden sweeping rule changes are the best way to get things back on track. This issue needs to be discussed in detail before significant rule changes are implemented. But that's my opinion FWIW.

Brian, don't give up. This issue is obviously important to you (as it is to others) so let's keep it on the front burner and discuss it. Maybe some common ground can be reached. Maybe some compromises can be made and/or rules tweaked to benefit everyone.

BuzzKill
10-01-2008, 03:14 PM
Hmmm...

Part of me would say that it is Brian's baby and should come under the "My house, my rules" doctrine. But...

This board/forum is a few years old now. In Forum years that's a full blown teenager, with an attitude, it's own ideas, and all the answers to everything. So as "Dad", do you rule with an iron boot? Or do you let the teen start making more decisions and learning from their own mistakes more?

The spirit/intent/genesis of this site is DIY. So I agree with Brian when he says those that come here looking for complete Ren24, Grinches, and the like really have no business here. If you want blinky-flashy out of the box, go buy LOR.

Is the hoarding of schematics and PCB files a bad thing? I would say absolutely. Again, it has no place in this community.

Is offering bare boards on web sites outside this forum a bad thing? It is certainly risky. My experience is that designs change fairly rapidly around here. Buying up a bunch of boards at your own expense could leave you with a lot of spare boards. But I would question the ethics behind this. The person doing this is almost certainly not using their own money to stock their stores. They are piggy-backing on an existing group buy to purchase additional boards at a lower cost for resale for personal profit. If the group as a whole does not mind being "used" in this manner, then so be it.

Are they offering the community a service? I think to a certain extent they are. Not everyone that finds this board has perfect timing to get in on a group buy, or just misses the last one, etc. Maybe their display just needs one more board. Maybe a noob soldered all their parts in backwards and would like to get a replacement board. So there is some argument that they are simply filling a need to the community.

Is anything beyond bare boards a bad thing? Maybe. The community here is DIY. And I would like to point out that our DIY community revolves around a single point. And that point is Vixen. KC may not take to kindly to the upstart cottage industry attempts when the very thing being sold requires a certain application that we all currently get for free. Just food for thought... It would suck if a little greed killed the goodwill of probably our most important benefactor.

omzig
10-01-2008, 03:27 PM
Is anything beyond bare boards a bad thing? Maybe. The community here is DIY. And I would like to point out that our DIY community revolves around a single point. And that point is Vixen. KC may not take to kindly to the upstart cottage industry attempts when the very thing being sold requires a certain application that we all currently get for free. Just food for thought... It would suck if a little greed killed the goodwill of probably our most important benefactor.Excellent point!

Wayne J
10-01-2008, 06:10 PM
All I can say right now is... I am really shocked with the lack of supporting Brian. His greatest intentions are looking out for the community as a whole and what does he get in return.... made out to be a bad guy.
NO ONE even asked if he had plans to make the situation better, no one cared I think. I just don't get it. I'm really dissapointed, and just don't know what to say.

rollie66
10-01-2008, 07:11 PM
I wholeheartedly endorse Brian. The idea that there should be ready made kits and other items really goes against the spirit of this endeavor. There have been so many group buys for the boards. Only people that come to this in november and expect everything asap would be helped by this. I actually lurked for a long time during last christmas season. I saw that this was much more involved than a 30 day project. There are many sites that can help the i want it now crowd ie lor. they even have kits to help people save $. Keep up the good work Brian. rules also help keep the lawyers off of Brians back. One failed group buy or commercial venture and everyone will be blaiming Brian for no rules.

holtm
10-01-2008, 07:46 PM
Without course correction we will be so far off course we won't be able to see the destination. (sorry for the analogy) I like rules, I'm a rule follower, rules are our friends. Oh, and we need someone to be in charge.... Brian.

toodle_pipsky
10-01-2008, 09:24 PM
NO ONE even asked if he had plans to make the situation better, no one cared I think.. . .

Coming out with a statement which appears to be a surprise to a lot of people, plus no solution other than all trade to cease and with an "everyone open your cupboards, this is a raid" vibe - what was expected? Should have more been a call to the community to ask if this was the general feeling, has anyone else had this problem? Or at least a post outlining the problem exactly as it stands and this is how it's going to be fixed - problem and solution all together. This is what's happened in the past and it's worked well. But that's not what happened, and that's not how it panned out. It's get over it and move on time.

I am not a fan of the "victim" attitude. But then by the same token, I don't condone bullying. I think everyone is guilty of a whole bunch of yelling and nothing really gained. As for people flooding inboxes with whinging - that just fuels the fire. Think about it, this same argument wouldn't be happening if people were face to face - it's much easier to type to a faceless crowd. . . . .

I really enjoy my time on this board, sharing, swapping, learning, buying stuff - it's given me all the tools I need to get the display happening. If someone wants to charge me to cover cost of materials, fine I don't mind. If they want to give it away, fine I don't mind. If they want to charge for something previously free because it's costing too much for them to handle themselves, fine I don't mind. My experience has been that even if people do charge, they usually go above and beyond with their service - extra pieces chucked in for free, express post for no charge, that sort of stuff.

I really would like to hear from Brian about the specifics of the problems happening (because I wasn't even aware there was a problem) and yes, finally a solution please so everyone can move on and this distrust of one another can stop.

PS - Sorry, I thought I would add I like Brian - he's a nice guy. I've had occasion to chat with him and he's given me grief about my name ;) (TP) but chat is always a hoot. I really like this place Brian and I think you do a smashing job, that's why I took the effort to pay membership because it's absolutely worth it and the effort of hosting should be rewarded. There are lots of people on this board who have become what I consider mates, and even more people who have been a great help. And for all these reasons I hope this has a positive outcome.

rlilly
10-01-2008, 11:04 PM
"everyone open your cupboards, this is a raid" vibe - what was expected?

ROFL! That's exactly how it came across! (I was waiting for 'this is the spanish inquistion' haha....but it never came....)

I've been thinking about what Brian is trying to communicate. I understand things were different several years ago. (That's always the case, no matter what you're talking about).

I sense nostalgia. I wasn't around back then, but I understand people were more open 'with a sense of urgency' about getting the hardware/software to work, and wanting & needing input from those of like mind.

Things change. Now there's hardware designs that work. Now there's software that'll handle it all. The struggle is now not so much a struggle. They're both readily available. Stocking proven designs, store fronts, what next? Government bailouts of failed DIYC businesses? Someone stop the maddness!

My impression is that it's just natural evolution. I've no sense of 'greed' or 'hoarding'.

Now DIY and LOR are compatable via DMX. It's early in that game, but don't be surprized when a bunch of LOR users start popping up here in the not so far off future. How will that be handled?

I've really enjoyed this year, talking and sharing with you folks. Let's hope it doesn't retrograde radically from what we've come to enjoy.

mrpackethead
10-02-2008, 04:52 AM
Hey, Brian, how about another post, what were you really trying to say?? Cuase it seems most of us have missed the point?

Michael Sullivan
10-02-2008, 05:53 AM
Everything in life matures and grows with the times and I think the Forum is no different.

Now I think that if the forum does not age and grow to suit the times it is going to break up into smaller groups to fill those needs and we will end up a Christmas light group spread out all over the net where it is going to be very hard to find and keep up with so much infomation.

I think the most important question we need to ask is do we want all of these other forums popping up or do we try to supply as much as we can for the most part that can help everyone no matter there ability.

I see a forum that I have gained more than I could ask for and thanks Brian for that.

When I got into DIY I found it very hard and I come from an electrical background where I purchase a 32 channel electronics kit from a local electronics shop as I was not ready to create a PCB or willing to solder all the wires required for bread bord controllers so I was greatfull I could purchase a controller in kit form and for me this is DIY.

I would never even attempt my own bouble side PCB or at this point surface mounted components.

This is where coops come in and I have done a few of them where they take way to long and by the time most people learn what they are doing it nearly Christmas.

There is no dout this forum needs to continue to grow with the requirement of the members in order to prevent destruction and the greater loss of experiance.

We are able to run polls on the forum so why are we not doing this to see what the member want and this way at least we can try to keep the people happy with what there needs are as now more than ever we have much more new people with very little skills required to make most of what is asked to get what we enjoy up and running.
lets move forward by putting it out there and see what everying wants and ideas as to which direction we should move in.

As far a group buys and coops go and mass stocking of part and even full kits, people know what they can get themself into and the good and bad things connected to them as they do with ebay but I realy think that there is a need for all of this to fill the needs of the multipul skill levels people have and are able to obtain.

People who do the wrong thing buy other member or are found to be ripping them off are going to be found and the other member will take care of them when the word spreads.

If the board do not move in the right direction we are going to end up a scattered mess across the internet.

These are my thoughts on the forum that supports the Blinky Flashy I love so much.

Micheal

g2ktcf
10-04-2008, 11:01 AM
Just some thoughts from the newbie here.

1. The information on this site is INCREDIBLE.
2. I love the open sharing of information and will do anything I can to support it.
3. IMHO, when dealing with people from all works of life (that I do every day) you will never please everyone. Brian, you have done an excellent job here. The children need leadership and sometimes that is hard.
4. Also IMHO, this is not a place to make extra money. If you need boards, then you sign up for true group buy (which is an amazing thing BTW). Profit making can create greed and angst that is totally counter productive to the DIY experience. Will that keep some folks from joining? Absolutely! But, those that do join will feel a strong sense of "what can I do to give back to the community".

Maybe just a little more than my 2 cents worth but I felt like this had to be said.

Chris

5childrensleep
10-05-2008, 05:50 PM
Brian is most definitely right, and so is everyone else. It is his forum and he is being made look like the bad guy. Some of you forget, he is the one who spends HIS time and money so that we can have a place to learn and share our ideas about Christmas lights among other things. At points Brian does not get the respect he deserves, and with that I say good luck to you Brian and I hope you are able to regain control of YOUR forum.

davetv102
10-05-2008, 10:35 PM
I thought I would chime in with my two cents for what its worth, I was a newbie a year ago when I found this site. I was all ready to build it all and go Blinky Flashy, but to my dismay many advised me that the end of Sept. was too late to start from zero for Christmas. You know what, they were right, and the direction they gave me has me ready to go for this Christmas. Brian created a great place here for all Christmas lighting addicts to gather and share. I support Brian and his direction for this site, wether you like it or not without rules you have chaos. Brian started this site for all of us, and we as his guests should act no different here than we would as guests in someone else's home. There will always be a difference of opinion, but I think we need to do our best to keep the DIY in DIYC.

wjohn
10-06-2008, 02:50 PM
Dave,

you are never to late to start. I was still adjusting lights on Xmas eve, Santa needs as much illumination if he is going to find our houses.

robots4joey
10-07-2008, 01:27 AM
Brian,

You have an amazing number of people who will support you in whatever you would like to do with your site. We just didn't post in the last thread because we didn't think about it. Now we realize that all you got were negative responses- those of us who were fine with it stayed quiet.
Thus it feels like everyone was against you- But the majority of us aren't.

God bless!

coolspot
10-07-2008, 02:04 AM
i just read this <moderated language>

Macrosill
10-11-2008, 09:36 AM
So today is my 1st post since October 1st. I have tried to stay away but I must admit I am addicted.

Anyway I will be here to take care of any Admin issues if I am contacted about them, as I have this past week. Otherwise I will just be another person here reading. I will not make the same mistake again. This place has grown into its own animal and there seems no one can control it.

Maybe we should simply follow the 3 rules on Planet Christmas, positive, christmas centric and family friendly. Everything else will just be a free for all. Any public thoughts or input.

Thanks to everyone who sent me an email and/or PM in support. I have not answered most of them be be sure I read them.

I hope everyone has a very successful and happy display season!

wjohn
10-11-2008, 10:08 AM
welcome back, we all respect the work you do, and the place is better for your efforts.

coolspot
10-11-2008, 11:11 AM
you definetly work hard since ive been here i have not seen a problem with the forum

mrpackethead
10-11-2008, 04:17 PM
Maybe we should simply follow the 3 rules on Planet Christmas, positive, christmas centric and family friendly. Everything else will just be a free for all. Any public thoughts or input



That is a great idea! Nice to see you back.

Matt_Edwards
10-11-2008, 04:19 PM
So today is my 1st post since October 1st. I have tried to stay away but I must admit I am addicted.


Brian,
Thanx for a great forum.
Thanx for your hard work.

You have my respect as admin. As johnw said this is a better place due to your efforts.

I for one am glad this forum did not implode.

Cheers
Matt