View Full Version : Updating V3. What is the correct procedure?

10-21-2015, 06:20 PM
I am ready to update an older version of V3 but don't want to loose what I have already done.

I read the instructions and they say to delete the old version or install in a new location.
If I install in a new location can I move all the files needed to preserve the working sequences?
If so, what files do I move?

Or is there another way that is better?

I remember seeing a thread on this a while back but can't locate it. :pinch:

10-21-2015, 06:22 PM
3.2u1 does a good job of doing everything for you. But if you want to play it safe just delete the vixen 3 program folder in c:\program files. Then install the new version. Don't touch anything in your documents folder or any other profile location you might be using and your data will be safe.

--Jon Chuchla--

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10-21-2015, 06:25 PM
Thanks for the quick reply!

I always cringe when doing a delete.

10-21-2015, 06:40 PM
Vixen doesn't store any user or machine data in the program files folder. We actually follow the windows rules for this. Machine specific settings are stored in appdata. And user config into is in the documents folder. The only time anything gets written to the program files\vixen folder is when you install it.

--Jon Chuchla--

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10-21-2015, 07:30 PM
I don't like the black background Windows, can I change them?

10-21-2015, 07:56 PM
Nope. Sorry.
But you just installed it. A lot of people have that comment at first. But after spending a few hours in it most find it much more comfortable on the eyes and much easier to work with color.

--Jon Chuchla--

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10-21-2015, 08:34 PM
Ohhhhhhhhhhhh kaaaaaaaaa

10-21-2015, 09:09 PM
Ummm... Still hasn't "grown on me" yet. :(

10-21-2015, 11:58 PM
Hasn't "grown on" me either. I find it much harder to read the text and on some screens its almost unreadable. :cry:

"Most" of us were taught how to read and write with black letters on white paper. Early computer screens had light text on dark background and they evolved to dark text on light background because most people prefer it. Seems like Vixen3 took a step backwards. :huh:

With that said, i understand some people may like it. But it sounds like most people do not. I really really really hope this new "theme" concept is going to allow user choice in the near future. :v:

10-22-2015, 12:46 AM
here's a few screenshots from the most popular professional and semipro graphics, video and lighting software on the market.

Video Editors:
Final Cut Studio: 29853
Blender: 29852

Media Server:
Arkaos: 29851

Hog4PC: 29854
Madrix: 29855

10-22-2015, 12:55 AM
Actually the dark theme is becoming very popular, especially amongst graphics, photo, video, and lighting software. It is much easier to view color on a dark background and without a lot of other bright stuff around it. The new Windows 10 base theme is dark in the start menu and task bar. Where I work we are moving to much darker contrasting colors for our application designs. I think this trend will continue in the industry over time.

There are a few areas that the new colors did not get applied correctly or need some tweaks that we are working on fixing up. The dev builds have a couple of those fixed already and there will be more to come.

10-22-2015, 01:05 AM
Adobe Premier: 29856
Adobe Photoshop: 29857
ProTools: 29858

Even consumer software is following suit:
iMovie: 29859

Even Windows 10: 29860

Get where I'm going with this? I would hardly say that Vixen is devolving. It's borrowing from the success of the research dollars of the big software companies. There is a significant amount of research and work involved in this theming. I frequently work in several of the above quoted software. It's much easier on the eyes. It puts the content front and center, and the controls in the background. This goes hand in hand with memorizing and using all of the keyboard shortcuts. One hand on the mouse and one hand on the keyboard at all times. You really don't need to even read the screens after a while. You just need to twiddle sliders and colors and watch the content change. That's the direction we're following with the modern workflow. Labels will get deemphasized and lose focus, and content will move front and center and get more focus.

I'll admit that some of our forms aren't the nicest looking with this new theme, but that's a result of beating the old winforms controls into submission to blend with the newer WPF forms. It wasn't worth our time at this point to completely rewrite a lot of the forms just to fit the theme, so we accepted what we could do with the old. They'll be further improved as they get replaced and rewritten over time. There's a lot planned for rewrites of many of the forms. Things like the color and gradient editor forms will eventually get overhauled and lose prominent data entry boxes in favor of visual controls. Things like display setup will get more graphical and less text and list based.

10-22-2015, 10:46 AM
Ok perhaps its the tweaking that still needs to be done. I don't mind the darker "theme" per se. The problem I'm having is the lack of contrast. In many cases there is dim white text on a light grey background. Also, many of the buttons do not have a contrasting color between when they are pushed or not pushed. Items which are selected do not have enough contrast or boldness to distinguish which are selected and which are not.

Here is a perfect example and this is the screen where I spend the most time.
1. Is "looping enabled? hard to tell
2. Is "draw mode" or "selection mode" enabled? hard to tell
3. Is "snap to" enabled? hard to tell
4. Are any elements selected? Which ones? hard to tell (hint: some are and some aren't)

Most of the other setup menus/screens have a small font with dim white text on a light grey background with very little contrast but I can get past it since I don't use those screen often. However, the Sequence Editor screen gets used a lot and items like the ones mentioned above make it less user-friendly than the previous version.

10-22-2015, 12:48 PM
Those are very good points. Some of it is artistic related and some is limitations of the current software implementation. While I am a GUI designer, I am not a graphic artist and we are lacking on that on the dev team. So icons and button choices often are at the mercy of what open source and public domain icon sets we can find to use. This even includes things like creating adequate on/off states for icons that are otherwise good. If there are any graphic designers out there and interested we could certainly use your help.
Most of the text size issues are related to poor dpi support in WinForms itself. WinForms was developed in the days of 800x600 and 1024x768 monitors. There wasn't a lot of variation in display dpi. Displays have changed quite a bit since then. So the result is that text on these controls gets tiny on the higher resolution displays and modern operating systems. We are slowly migrating to more modern methods for new controls but there's a good number of existing forms that work, so they're lower on the priority list to change over simply because there's more important things to work on. In fact 3.2 brought in a few new significant UI elements that use newer UI methods. We also got rid of a lot of forms in the process. The new theming is a result of the need to blend the new and old together better. And it also served as an exercise to touch every form and identify inconsistent controls so we could normalize the UI. This will help us migrate the rest to the newer style as we get the resources to do so. Some of the UI problems are the best we can get until they form gets rewritten. Some need some simple tweaking. The effect editor pane is an example of the newer style form. It's the target we're working toward.

--Jon Chuchla--

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10-22-2015, 01:36 PM
Of the items I mentioned above, #4 is the most frustrating. In the processes of creating a new sequence, selecting one or more effects on the timeline is paramount. With this new theme, it is very difficult see which effects are selected and which are not. In the picture above, some effects are selected and some are not but its almost impossible to see the difference. I've been giving the "UNDO" button a good workout :)

The other items are a nuisance, but not a show stopper. However I'm finding this low visibility on the selected effects to be tedious and painful enough that it makes me consider other sequencers. I realize there are many things on the to-do list for Vixen and only limited resources. But I also think the issue with #4 warrants a higher priority and if possible do something to enhance that without having to redo the whole theme. Maybe use a white box around the selected items instead of a black box against a dark grey background. Could that be done quickly?

BTW, I do like the new Effect Editor pane. :v:

10-22-2015, 04:41 PM
looks like effects 3-10 were selected.

10-22-2015, 05:11 PM
I don't think we even changed the selection indicator for effects. I thought it was always like that.

--Jon Chuchla--

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10-22-2015, 08:01 PM
The actual grid color and the effect selection color was not touched in the new theme. They were already grey and black. Any other color for selected other than black could blend in with the actual effect color. Black is the only color that would not be used for an effect. If you use white as you suggest and you use a white set level effect, you can't see it at all. I think you have the worst use case with the lip-sync, so maybe the background on that effect could be lightened a bit to help. That would certainly be pretty easy.

As far as the others, we can definitely tweak on some of those to get them better, so I think that will improve. Suggestions that call out the specific items are definitely more helpful than plain I don't like it comments. We do listen to suggestions and if they are reasonable many of them get implemented.

10-22-2015, 08:26 PM
I tried looping and it appears not to work. No way of telling if it's selected. After several clicks I locked up. Now I don't even bother to use it. However, I think I found an issue with Vixen 3. Going into the controller setup a there is a choice for reversing pixels order. I had earlier reversed the pixel order and I made some changes and wanted to go back to the original order. Since I'm using an E6804 I thought I reversed the pixels on the E6804 setup. Nope, the box wasn't checked. I went into Vixen controller setup and the reverse order was not checked. Okay, it took me awhile to realized that checking reverse doesn't stay that way. Yes, it reverses but the check mark disappears. No wonder I couldn't figure out how to reverse back. Seems to me when that box is checked it should stay that way. Am I wrong?

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10-22-2015, 09:25 PM
Looping works fine for me. I use it all the time.........

The reverse order check in the patching options is only used during the actual patch when you are patching items. It is not intended to show state of already patched items.

To reverse back, un-patch and then patch them again not selecting reverse.

10-22-2015, 09:35 PM
The reverse checkbox is in the center patching section, not the left hand element section. Things that have to do with elements are in the left section. Things with controllers on the right. And things that have to do with the patching are in the middle. The reverse check boxes aren't properties of the element nor the controller. They are simply instructions on how to execute the patch operation. Once it's patched, you can see how things are patched by looking at he graphical view.

Looping seems to work just fine to me. Set your play cursor marks in the timeline and select the loop button. I'll admit that the indicator is hard to see but it's there. It's a dark box around the icon when it's active.

--Jon Chuchla--

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10-23-2015, 02:37 AM

I want to be able to see what settings are in Vixen! I'm setting up controllers right now. While in there, it is really hard to see.

For example...http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29874&stc=1

The text on this chart for setting Universe and Size just isn't there for some eyes!!! I should not have to click on the item to see what setting is in the box.

But when I do, the start information disappears...http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29875&stc=1

In this example I just threw up a quick new profile, but when there is a lot of information listed, it can get really "different".

ALL text needs to have contrast with whatever background it is on. Black on white, white on black, dark grey on light grey, yellow on black, etc.

This is light grey on lighter grey (almost white).

As I tell my 5 year old granddaughter to say... PLEASE!

10-23-2015, 06:42 AM
I just downloaded the latest version of V3 on the download site. I like the dark interface. I am at home in Lightroom and CS6 so it works well for me. V3 is always a work in progress.

I say Great Job Dev Team! Some tweaks will make it that much better as time goes on.

10-23-2015, 07:20 AM
The controller tab grid has already been fixed in the dev builds.

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