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P. Short
07-25-2008, 08:00 PM
This sort of thing comes up so often that maybe we should have a troubleshooting section in the Wiki. Perhaps a Grinch and/or 595 section, and maybe a Renard section (or sections). Or, perhaps just a generic troubleshooting page, not too much specific to any given board.

RavingLunatic
07-25-2008, 09:04 PM
Forgive the thread hi-jack

Phil,

This has been asked by a few others in the past. Each time the topic just kinda dies away because nobody wants to sign up to do the work to make it happen.

I'm in agreement that a troubleshooting section in the wiki would be beneficial (hopefully would cut down on the "help me, it doesn't work" type posts). A dedicated page for each system would be the best way to approach this (IMO).

But now the "rub" on my part:

In the past you had voiced concerns about the wisdom of the wiki pages having unlimited access to editing. At the time, I had voiced in favor of the unlimited access except for maybe the BOMs. But now maybe I see your point of view better.

When it comes to troubleshooting guides, I would be more in favor of protected pages with editing access limited to certain individuals (board designers, moderators, admin). I would hate to have a "well intentioned individual" make an edit that would cause an adverse result if someone followed their directions.

Also, these potential pages would probably require more work than any of the other pages in the wiki. I would hate to see all the effort ruined by careless editing by "well intentioned individuals".


Just my thoughts.....


Maybe you can move this to its own thread and we'll see how much interest there is in getting it done.

P. Short
07-25-2008, 10:18 PM
Hmm...I'm not too worried about damage to the wiki pages, as they can always be reverted back to an earlier phase. And there is more potential for damage in the BOMs than in a trouble-shooting guide, IMO. The biggest concern is the amount of work involved in creating the pages.

AFAIK I don't have moderation rights in this section, so we'll have to wait for someone who does to move these posts into a new thread.

RavingLunatic
07-28-2008, 09:03 PM
More Thread Hi-Jack...

Brian (if you are reading this) could you move Phil's and my posts about troubleshooting wiki pages to its own thread (maybe in site/forum suggestions)?


Hmm...I'm not too worried about damage to the wiki pages, as they can always be reverted back to an earlier phase. And there is more potential for damage in the BOMs than in a trouble-shooting guide, IMO. The biggest concern is the amount of work involved in creating the pages.

AFAIK I don't have moderation rights in this section, so we'll have to wait for someone who does to move these posts into a new thread.

Yes, pages can be reverted but as you state with the amount of effort involved in the pages I would rather have people with inputs submit them to the page creater or other responsible members for addition. That way it would be possible for the creater to voice any objections to the info and/or be able to control where to insert the info to keep the exisiting data flow in tact.

I did a little test run on what I would envision a troubleshooting page to look like. The pdf file doesn't look as good as the wiki page did but you get the general idea. And yes, it was a good bit of effort already and a lot more to go (if I were to continue it).

Wayne J
07-28-2008, 09:36 PM
As usual... very nice work RL ;) I really like the flow chart.
The subject of the wiki came up at the mini weekend. It is true that folks really don't understand the effort that goes into it. After I get all of this display work done, my intentions are to do some wiki additions / editing.

RavingLunatic
07-29-2008, 09:50 AM
The subject of the wiki came up at the mini weekend. It is true that folks really don't understand the effort that goes into it. After I get all of this display work done, my intentions are to do some wiki additions / editing.


Yes, the wikis are a lot of work. Not only gathering all the data together and double/triple checking for accuracy but then you have to go thru the process of formatting the data into the wiki format. It can be a huge headache sometimes (especially when using tables).

To me, the most frustrating thing is that after putting in the effort and finally posting the information, people still ask questions that are answered in the wiki. A recent example was an individual that made a comment that the info in a particular wiki was only "ok" and then proceeded to ask a question that was clearly answered in that wiki. Makes you wonder if it is worth the effort sometimes.

I also feel that most newbies don't know what the wiki has available til they ask a question and get referred to it. Maybe a "sticky" post in The Beginning forum to point them that way would help. I tried to do that but found out that "sticky" posts are avail to mods/admin only.

I'll wait and see what kind of feedback/interest there is for this before I'll put too much effort into it.

deplanche
07-29-2008, 11:14 AM
I also feel that most newbies don't know what the wiki has available til they ask a question and get referred to it. Maybe a "sticky" post in The Beginning forum to point them that way would help. I tried to do that but found out that "sticky" posts are avail to mods/admin only.


I am working on a very basic guide thread, to point newbies to the various sources of good information when they first get here. I'll try to post it by the end of the week. It's basically links to the wiki or other good threads, that people are always referring to. It started off from all the pages I kept bookmarking so I could find them again. Just trying to parse it down to only the things a newbie would understand, not the detailed discussions on building or troublshooting that can be too much when you first get here.

Comments would be greatly apprecaited once I post it.

Jon

RavingLunatic
08-12-2008, 08:04 PM
Ok, after about two weeks of on/off effort I am pretty much 95% complete with a Grinch troubleshooting guide. I'm at the point that I need to put it on a shelf for a couple of days before going back and proofreading it and making final corrections.

So while I'm letting it cool, I'll let it out to the community for inputs and feedback. It isn't a wiki page yet, just a pdf of what it looks like right now. So any inputs will need to be posted or sent to me via pm.


EDIT (added):

For those wondering, I did the Grinch because it is probably the least complicated controller that we deal with on DIYC and I wanted to see how much effort it would take to create the troubleshooting guide. It was a good bit of effort and I can't imagine that any future troubleshooting guides will be any easier.

There are some places in the guide that some folks might think that it is too detailed, which is fine by me, I would rather be too detailed than not enough and miss something. This doesn't mean I didn't miss something, which I probably did, thats why outside input would be helpful.

I have a feeling that the idea of troubleshooting guides is kinda the same as how most folks think about the police. You don't give them a second thought most of the time because you don't need them but when you are in a crunch and need them then you can't seem to live without them. ;-)


EDIT 9/1: File removed

Matt
08-13-2008, 02:11 PM
That guide looks great, RavingLunatic.

Semi-thread hijack here...

I've been working on the wiki a bit in the past couple of days (mainly putting some sensible organization into the Vixen section). I think it's important that we get the wiki together as a resource for the influx of newbies that come in November or December. Even if people are asking questions that are answered there, it's easier to point to the page rather than type out the answer.

To anyone: if you can write the content, I will be more than willing to proof-read for grammar and spelling, format it, and add it to the wiki. Send me a PM.

-Matt

P. Short
08-27-2008, 01:09 PM
A couple of comments on the proposed wiki page...

1) when measuring voltages, specify where each of the probes goes. This may not be obvious to everybody.

2) Perhaps there should be a section on how to bring up the board the first time. Rather than just plug everything in, hope for the best, and back-track if there are problems, maybe there should be a step-by-step procedure in the forward direction. What I'm thinking is to first power up the board (data connector dis-connected, chips removed), measure the voltages. Then plug in the chips and measure the voltages again, then connect the data cable and run a Vixen test-sequence. This way there is less chance of damaging a chip, and more chance of detecting a problem at the earliest phase.

3) In step 2 of the first part, be even more emphatic about disconnecting the input data cable from the host PC. There are ways for the controller to get enough power through the data lines to turn the power LED on, but not enough to run the controller (or not enough to reliably power the it).

4) Step 12 - the voltage on the RLED is not going to be 2V if the LED is in backwards.

RavingLunatic
08-27-2008, 02:56 PM
Phil,

1) I believe that I can work that info in without too much headache.

2) I have also thought of a "Beginners Setup Guide" but not as a part of the troubleshooting guide. My thought is that it could be either a separate wiki page that could be accessed from the main Grinch wiki page or a new section of the main Grinch wiki page (my main concern with this option is whether it would make the page too long). If any of the steps in the "Beginners Setup Guide" don't work as expected then link to the correct section in the troubleshooting guide.

3) Additional verbage can be added.

4) :oops: That whole step needs tweeking.

Wayne J
08-27-2008, 05:53 PM
Just a thought, most of who would be using this guide, will also be new to Vixen. Maybe we can make some test sequences with the appropriate channel count and plugins, make them available for download, and add the links in the file. This would assue that things are setup correctly in Vixen when trouble shooting.

RavingLunatic
08-27-2008, 07:19 PM
Wayne,

The Vixen sequence that I descibe in the troubleshooting steps will be/is available for downloading. That way if the user doesn't want to go thru the steps or if they doubt that they did it correctly, they can just d/l and run it.

Wayne J
08-27-2008, 07:26 PM
Wayne,

The Vixen sequence that I descibe in the troubleshooting steps will be/is available for downloading. That way if the user doesn't want to go thru the steps or if they doubt that they did it correctly, they can just d/l and run it.

Ahhh, just seen that in the guide. :oops:

RavingLunatic
09-03-2008, 01:31 PM
Update - I have decided not to continue with this effort.

Wayne J
09-03-2008, 05:21 PM
Update - I have decided not to continue with this effort.


Ohhhh noooo... what happened? :confused:

RavingLunatic
09-27-2008, 05:26 PM
Ok, folks I have finished (I believe) and posted the Grinch troubleshooting wiki page.

I'm not gonna post a link because you get there from the main Grinch wiki page so you should be able to find it easily.

WWNF911
09-27-2008, 05:31 PM
Looks awesome RL!!

rstehle
09-27-2008, 05:39 PM
WOW!!!!!!!!!! That looks like it was a LOT OF WORK! Fantastic Job!!!

RavingLunatic
09-27-2008, 05:51 PM
That looks like it was a LOT OF WORK! Fantastic Job!!!

Yes, it was.

I thought I had quit on it a couple of weeks ago but after taking some time away from it and doing other things to clear my fragile mind, I was finally able to finish it up.

Oh yeah, and some words of encouragement from Wayne also helped with getting the focus back. Thanks Wayne!

dnesci
09-27-2008, 07:07 PM
Man RL, this is fantastic. I wouldn't have bothered many of you earlier this year if I had this. Great job. Anyway we can talk you into one of the Ren 64 (before I start building them next year)?

Thanks for all your help and what you give back to this group.

Wayne J
09-27-2008, 09:42 PM
WOW!!!!!!

That is amazing! RL, because I have done a couple wiki pages, I can really imagine how many hours that took. :shock:

OK everyone, now we have the ultimate guide to point users with a Grinch having troubles to read. It doesn't get any better than that. :cool:






glad you got your focus back. :wink:

dmcole
09-28-2008, 12:32 PM
RL:

Great job. The worst part is that the people who really need it, don't even know right now that they need it, because for the most part, they haven't even heard of a Grinch yet.

Congratulations on such good work.

\dmc