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IaRoadKill
01-31-2015, 04:58 PM
Here's what I've done so far.

I went out to Altoona lights and used their Calculator.
http://www.altoonalights.com/star_calculator/star_calculator.html

27365 27366

I made a jig on a 4 x 4 piece of plywood.

27362 27363

I used 12 gauge galvanized steel rods, 4 foot long and cut to length.

I made one complete star and then 2 half stars.

I welded 1 half star on the front and 1 half star on the back of the full star to get a 3-D star.
I added some extra wire in the center to strengthen the unit.


27364

This is my completed 3-D Bethlehem Star skeleton.

DanJ
01-31-2015, 06:02 PM
Very nicely done!

duramadmax
01-31-2015, 06:42 PM
You know that is going to take a special 3d sequencer.... Hmmmmmmm. :biggrin::):):):biggrin::biggrin:

IaRoadKill
01-31-2015, 06:45 PM
Shut up I just blew my budget for this year!

IaRoadKill
01-31-2015, 06:46 PM
No seriously, what's a 3-D sequencer!?! Are you pulling my leg?

Skunberg
01-31-2015, 07:17 PM
Great job! I like it.

duramadmax
01-31-2015, 08:22 PM
No seriously, what's a 3-D sequencer!?! Are you pulling my leg?

Yes I am.... However it would be a thought if you had pixels that were "nested" inside objects. Like boxes or stars.

djulien
02-09-2015, 01:33 AM
No seriously, what's a 3-D sequencer!?!

sequencing software or an effects generators that is 3D-aware. The currently available tools use 2D effects and those mostly look okay on a 3D prop, but there are certain types of effects that require the effects generating software to be aware of 3 dimensions in order to look correct in 3D. For example, if you ran a 2D exploding star effect on a 3D star you would need to arrange the pixel order so that the first lights to turn on are all in the middle of the star and the last ones to turn on are all at the outer tips of the star. It could be made to work, but it's more manual effort to set up than just using a 3D-aware effect generator in the first place.

don

Skunberg
02-09-2015, 11:42 AM
It wouldn't need to be 3d aware. You could have it setup as 3 flat stars (or 4 depending on your star) and you could have them explode together like having 3 arches jump together. 3d aware would be way better but you can get around it.

BillW
02-09-2015, 06:34 PM
Great design, I want one now! Waiting to see the next steps. Great work.

BillW

IaRoadKill
02-09-2015, 07:31 PM
I'm experimenting with different led light spacing. Don't know if I'll have anything up soon.

IaRoadKill
02-09-2015, 07:52 PM
Okay I might as will show you what I'm working on.

27525 27527

The lights on the left are spaced 1-1/2" apart the lights on the right are spaced 1" apart top and bottom, 4" in the center.
(I'm leaning towards the left side)

I'm adding a ball in the center that I will cover with aluminum foil to reflect light or I'll wrap it with more lights.

IaRoadKill
02-25-2015, 11:47 AM
After trying about 10 different ways to mount the lights, I have settled upon this.
27721

Spacing is about 1-1/2" with the black plastic flexible mesh.
I will tuck the wires in on the back side once mounted to the frame.
I'm manufacturing the top and bottom point strings first and will take another picture once I get them mounted.
:thup2:

NDNS00ner
02-25-2015, 12:26 PM
What did you use for the mesh?

IaRoadKill
02-25-2015, 12:41 PM
What did you use for the mesh?

http://t.homedepot.com/p/Tenax-3-ft-x-15-ft-Plastic-Black-Hardware-Net-751397/100384025

NDNS00ner
02-25-2015, 01:16 PM
http://t.homedepot.com/p/Tenax-3-ft-x-15-ft-Plastic-Black-Hardware-Net-751397/100384025

Cool, thank you I have a couple projects that I have in mind that this will work perfectly. :biggrin:

IaRoadKill
02-25-2015, 01:36 PM
Your hand will hurt after installing that many zip ties! I've been wondering why I haven't invested in one of those automatic zip tie guns.

Creativedesign
02-25-2015, 04:29 PM
Considering my wife has been wanting a Bethlehem star add another project to the list......I gotta stop browsing....

IaRoadKill
02-25-2015, 04:53 PM
considering my wife has been wanting a bethlehem star add another project to the list......i gotta stop browsing....

:lol: lol

Not just browsing...If your like me, I think you may need to put a paper sack over your head!
I'm getting ideas from everywhere!

NDNS00ner
02-25-2015, 07:29 PM
Your hand will hurt after installing that many zip ties! I've been wondering why I haven't invested in one of those automatic zip tie guns.

No pain, no gain.... lol

IaRoadKill
02-25-2015, 07:40 PM
I was just at Home Depot and forgot to look at zip tie guns!

IaRoadKill
02-25-2015, 09:11 PM
I'm getting there...

27725

IaRoadKill
02-28-2015, 12:41 AM
Ok. Top and bottom points have lights on them. 8 strings of 50.
POOP! The lights do not dim well. They pause off at the start and then stutter and ramp up fast as the the curve goes up.
I hacked the plug and recepticle and found capacitors in them. I thought I bought dim able lights, but they were just full wave.
I'll need to remove the capacitors.

http://youtu.be/de_J6vV6QYc

IaRoadKill
03-13-2015, 02:20 PM
I have my Ren32 built and all checked out.

I had planned to use the small Renzilla SICSSR's on each string but it seems that the SICSSR is only for on/off and no dimming. Can anyone confirm this?

TazChaLet, I'm reposting my problem and pictures here since the Ren32 is ok.

27934 27935

For communication from the Ren32, I wired the cat5 from the top side (clip side, right to left) :

27937

O/W - not used (should be pin 1, the square solder pad)
O - ch1
G/W - not used
Bl - ch2
Bl/W - not used
G - ch3
Br/W - signal ground
Br - ch4

I need the smallest dim-able SSR i can find. ( I need 32 of them)

Skunberg
03-14-2015, 12:31 PM
Go to the library and look up chasecicles. There's directions for a small single channel SSR from breadboard.

IaRoadKill
03-14-2015, 12:41 PM
Go to the library and look up chasecicles. There's directions for a small single channel SSR from breadboard.

I was thinking about that.

Can I substitute an H1AA11 for the moc?
(Looks the same)

Skunberg
03-14-2015, 01:37 PM
Out of my ability to substitute parts.

IaRoadKill
03-15-2015, 07:42 PM
Should I be able to dim lights with this 27960 http://digwdf.com/store/product.php?id_product=140

Or this

27962 27963 http://downloads.eshepherdsoflight.com/Howidid-ChaseCicles.pdf

LightUp
03-15-2015, 10:08 PM
Should I be able to dim lights with this 27960 http://digwdf.com/store/product.php?id_product=140

Or this

27962 27963 http://downloads.eshepherdsoflight.com/Howidid-ChaseCicles.pdf
Both circuits can do dimming.
Current rating for the 1st one is 1A, the 2nd one I didn't know which triac was used so can't say its current rating.

Skunberg
03-15-2015, 10:14 PM
I don't know anything about Dirks board, I would think it would dim but I'm not the one to ask. The latter breadboard ssr does dim.

IaRoadKill
03-16-2015, 07:59 AM
Hi LightUp

both circuits can do dimming.
Current rating for the 1st one is 1a, the 2nd one i didn't know which triac was used so can't say its current rating.

27967............................................. .....27969.......27970....27971

Triac is BTA06-600CW. _____Can I substitute an H11AA1 for the MOC3023 in this circuit?

27968
The instructions (?) for the second one say to connect +5V and data
That seems wrong to me. Shouldn't it be Data and Ground?

I am using it with a Ren32.
Output Jack Pin Assignments
Pin# Signal
1 +5VDC
2 First Output Channel
3 Not Connected
4 Second Output Channel
5 Not Connected
6 Third Output Channel
7 Signal Ground
6 Fourth Output Channel
Each of the 8 output jacks control 4 channels each.

So for my 1st channel, should I use pins 1&2 or pins 2&7?

LightUp
03-16-2015, 09:36 AM
...Triac is BTA06-600CW. _____Can I substitute an H11AA1 for the MOC3023 in this circuit?
No, you may not. :) It changes the way things work.
The BTA06-600 is a 6A, so it has the oomph...


...The instructions (?) for the second one say to connect +5V and data
That seems wrong to me. Shouldn't it be Data and Ground?
Ahh... the mysteries of electronics.
No, the diagram is correct. The +5V applies power to the little photo diode inside the chip. Pin 1 is the anode. Then to cause light flow out of the diode you need to "ground" pin 2 through a current limiting resistor. Hence they call it "data" because you will be applying this "ground" rapidly in an ON-OFF fashion, also know as PWM.
You may think of this operation as similarly used for "dumb RGB" type lights, but in this case it is only 1 "dumb" light. :)
With regards to your ground, that is the ground of the +5V power supply - which is part of your "data" signal, which swings 0V (ground) to +5V.


...I am using it with a Ren32.
Output Jack Pin Assignments
Pin# Signal
1 +5VDC
2 First Output Channel
3 Not Connected
4 Second Output Channel
5 Not Connected
6 Third Output Channel
7 Signal Ground
6 Fourth Output Channel
Each of the 8 output jacks control 4 channels each.

So for my 1st channel, should I use pins 1&2 or pins 2&7?
Yes and no.
The 1st channel uses 1 & 2,
The 2nd channel uses 1 & 4,
The 3rd channel uses 1 & 6,
The 4th channel uses 1 & 8.

The "common" in this case is +5V, rather than ground - hence your confusion. Think of the pathway as electron flow. It may make more sense to you. Each data line starts at "ground" and electrons flow through the series resistor then photo diode then to +5V of the power supply. For electrons to flow you need a potential difference.
OK, I'll stop here, 'nuf said...

IaRoadKill
03-16-2015, 09:52 AM
Ahh... the mysteries of electronics.
OK, I'll stop here, 'nuf said...

You must have some "Teacher" blood in you! :thup:
That was awesome.
Thank you

IaRoadKill
03-16-2015, 10:14 AM
So if I paid attention in class...:wink:

With this SSR...
27975 27976
The square "G" pad (green wire in 2nd picture) should be signal (pin2)
and
the round "+" pad (orange wire in the second picture) should be the +5V (pin1).

How'd I do teach?

LightUp
03-16-2015, 01:29 PM
You must have some "Teacher" blood in you! :thup:
That was awesome.
Thank you
Yes, but not officially....

LightUp
03-16-2015, 01:35 PM
So if I paid attention in class...:wink:

With this SSR...
27975 27976
The square "G" pad (green wire in 2nd picture) should be signal (pin2)
and
the round "+" pad (orange wire in the second picture) should be the +5V (pin1).

How'd I do teach?
I can't really say since your "report" is fuzzy... :)
I don't have a schematic, nor a board layout pattern to follow. So I can't tell how it is wired.
From the VO2223 datasheet, pin 2 of the chip is the anode, or positive side and the cathode connects to pins 1,3 & 4.
But I can't tell from your picture whether your board requires a current "source" or a current "sink" configuration.
Once I see the schematic of your little board (or its tracks) I may be able to advise you.

IaRoadKill
03-16-2015, 02:23 PM
I can't really say since your "report" is fuzzy... :)
I don't have a schematic, nor a board layout pattern to follow. So I can't tell how it is wired.
From the VO2223 datasheet, pin 2 of the chip is the anode, or positive side and the cathode connects to pins 1,3 & 4.
But I can't tell from your picture whether your board requires a current "source" or a current "sink" configuration.
Once I see the schematic of your little board (or its tracks) I may be able to advise you.

27979 27980 27981

Sorry about the first 2 pictures are upside down. :devilred: (Added challenge)

My drawing should be correct.

LightUp
03-16-2015, 03:14 PM
27979 27980 27981

Sorry about the first 2 pictures are upside down. :devilred: (Added challenge)

My drawing should be correct.
Hehe... I just rotated my laptop to see the picture. You thought I lived in Australia, right? :)
OK, this connection is similar to your previous designs.
"+" is your +5V line.
"G" is your channel data line.

It appears that these designs like to have, LOW, "ground", as turning lights ON, like the mechanical SainSmart relays.
And use "HIGH" to turn OFF the lights. So you may need inversion, of say Vixen channel data, in your controller.

IaRoadKill
03-16-2015, 05:32 PM
It appears that these designs like to have, LOW, "ground", as turning lights ON, like the mechanical SainSmart relays.
And use "HIGH" to turn OFF the lights. So you may need inversion, of say Vixen channel data, in your controller.

My first attempt at building a chase-cicle SSR worked!
(It took me 2-1/2 hrs to build that little $@&&*#%.

It seems that Vixen3, Ren32 and chase-cicle work correctly together.


http://youtu.be/k0VG78OIkKY

I'm going to finish off a Cuba Libre and then try the SCISSR again.

IaRoadKill
03-16-2015, 07:27 PM
OK, this connection is similar to your previous designs.
"+" is your +5V line.
"G" is your channel data line.


YEA! This one works too!


http://youtu.be/9by4lG1nJ2w

Time for another Cuba Libre!:freak:

IaRoadKill
03-16-2015, 08:44 PM
SCISSR - controlling A/C strings of LEDs or incandescent bulbs! REN 32 -SSRs can be either ACSSRs like the (Dirkcheaps, SSRez, SSRneons, etc... ) or DCSSRs like (DCSSR 2.4)

Ok..... I had to try it..:omg::omg:


http://youtu.be/yuNUqZiZIf4

Sooooo... The little SCISSR's work for AC or DC! I guess they are like the Dirkcheaps too....sooo....
(I pm'd dirk)

I was using the wrong wires for signal b4.

dirknerkle
03-16-2015, 11:54 PM
SCISSR stands for "Single Channel In-line SSR".... we left the "O" out of scissor and came up with that instead... A SCISSR is essentially 1/4 of a DirkCheapSSR. That's it. A single VO2223A chip, a resistor; exactly the same exact connections that are in the DirkCheapSSR.

For those who are wondering why the DC voltage works, it's because unfiltered DC still has a zero point in the wave pattern. Straight rectified DC doesn't have a zero cross in the purest sense because the voltage never gets to the negative component of the 60hz wave. However, it still has a zero point, in fact, it has 120 of them, same as 60hz AC power does. TRIACs need the zero point to "turn off" and that's why this implementation still works. The voltage on the TRIAC side of the VO2223A chip reaches zero and the TRIAC ceases to conduct current.

And the reason dimming still works is that the controller's H11AA1 chip is providing the 120hz ZC signal to the PIC chips, and it happens to match the timing of the zero point of the straight rectified DC that's going through the VO2223A chip, so when the PIC issues the control signal to the data side of the VO2223A chip to turn on the chip's internal optocoupler, it still knows how long to turn the chip on before hitting the zero point.

This design won't work with filtered DC however because the voltage through the VO2223A chip would never reach the zero point and the chip would therefore never turn off.

djulien
03-17-2015, 01:10 AM
Can I substitute an H1AA11 for the moc?
(Looks the same)

Assuming you mean the H11AA1 (used for the ZC detect on various Renard boards), no - these parts perform different functions. The H11AA1 has back-to-back diodes on the input side that conduct when there is at least a small voltage of either polarity, and they are used to turn on a photo transistor (on the output side of the chip) which is fairly light-duty compared to a triac. The photo-transistor is typically used to connect one of the I/O pins on the PIC to ground, with a pull-up resistor to +5. This is a low-current circuit, with a few mA running thru the photo-transistor. Also, the photo-transistor is polarized, so it is only designed to turn on a DC voltage.

The output side of the MOC 302X is actually a light-duty triac. It is designed to turn on/off an AC voltage. Typically it is connected to a separate heavier-duty triac so that heavier loads can be controlled. If your lights are low-current, you can actually use the MOC 302X directly to control the lights (without a separate triac), but it's safer to use the extra triac.



27968
The instructions (?) for the second one say to connect +5V and data
That seems wrong to me. Shouldn't it be Data and Ground?

In that particular circuit, the data signals were inverted (ground = "on", +5 = "off"), so it is backwards from what you might expect.

As long as the voltage on pin 1 of the MOC 302X is at least ~ 1.2 V higher than pin 2, then the MOC will turn on, which will in turn also turn on the triac. There are multiple ways to satisfy those "on" conditions - for example:
1. connect +5 to pin 1, and ground to pin 2
2. connect +5 to pin 1, and a data line to pin 2; when the data line goes low then the opto will turn on
3. connect ground to pin 2, and a data line to pin 1; when the data line goes high then the opto will turn on



I am using it with a Ren32.
Output Jack Pin Assignments
Pin# Signal
1 +5VDC
2 First Output Channel
3 Not Connected
4 Second Output Channel
5 Not Connected
6 Third Output Channel
7 Signal Ground
6 Fourth Output Channel
Each of the 8 output jacks control 4 channels each.

So for my 1st channel, should I use pins 1&2 or pins 2&7?

You could do it either way - it depends on what the firmware is doing. If the firmware in the uController puts a low voltage on the data pin when you tell that channel to turn on, then you would connect +5 to pin 1 of the MOC and pin 2, 4, 6, or 8 to pin 2. OTOH, if the firmware in the uController puts a high voltage on the data pin when you tell it to turn on that channel, then you would connect pin 2, 4, 6, or 8 to pin 1 and ground to pin 2 of the MOC.

For the firmware listed on the Ren32 wiki page, there is a constant in the source code called OUTPUT_NEGATIVE_TRUE. According to the comments in there, if this option is on then the data lines will go low to turn on a channel (first case, above), or if the option is off (commented out) then the data lines will go high (which is the second case, above). If you are using the "standard" setting, then it looks like it is set to the first case so you would use pins 1 + 2 of your connector. However, you could verify that just by trying it both ways and see which one works.

The VO2223A acts like a combined MOC + triac, so similar conditions apply WRT how to turn in on. According to the pinout diagram I have, you would need to set pin 2 of the VO2223A at least ~ 1.2V higher than pin 1 or 3 or 4 to turn it on.

don

IaRoadKill
03-17-2015, 09:55 AM
Both circuits can do dimming.
Current rating for the 1st one is 1A, the 2nd one I didn't know which triac was used so can't say its current rating.

What wattage resistor should I be using for the chase-cicle? (2nd item from previous post #28)
I used 1/4w but didn't even think about it.
http://downloads.eshepherdsoflight.c...haseCicles.pdf

LightUp
03-17-2015, 10:26 AM
What wattage resistor should I be using for the chase-cicle? (2nd item from previous post #28)
I used 1/4w but didn't even think about it.
Yes, 1/4W is fine. The pictures also look to show 1/4 watters.
Finally, it is the heating effect that would cause one to decide if it needs a higher wattage component.
However, I won't recommend putting your finger on it while plugged in - just in case you touch the AC area. :)

Skunberg
03-17-2015, 10:46 AM
SCISSR stands for "Single Channel In-line SSR".... we left the "O" out of scissor and came up with that instead... A SCISSR is essentially 1/4 of a DirkCheapSSR. That's it. A single VO2223A chip, a resistor; exactly the same exact connections that are in the DirkCheapSSR.

For those who are wondering why the DC voltage works, it's because unfiltered DC still has a zero point in the wave pattern. Straight rectified DC doesn't have a zero cross in the purest sense because the voltage never gets to the negative component of the 60hz wave. However, it still has a zero point, in fact, it has 120 of them, same as 60hz AC power does. TRIACs need the zero point to "turn off" and that's why this implementation still works. The voltage on the TRIAC side of the VO2223A chip reaches zero and the TRIAC ceases to conduct current.

And the reason dimming still works is that the controller's H11AA1 chip is providing the 120hz ZC signal to the PIC chips, and it happens to match the timing of the zero point of the straight rectified DC that's going through the VO2223A chip, so when the PIC issues the control signal to the data side of the VO2223A chip to turn on the chip's internal optocoupler, it still knows how long to turn the chip on before hitting the zero point.

This design won't work with filtered DC however because the voltage through the VO2223A chip would never reach the zero point and the chip would therefore never turn off.
Thank you for the details. It cleared the fog in my head about this one.

IaRoadKill
03-17-2015, 11:59 AM
I'm trying to teach myself on the chase-cicle circuit.
27987 So pins 3 & 5 do nothing on the moc3032?


Is there a circuit picture for the BTA06-600CW triac?
I've looked but can't find one.

LightUp
03-17-2015, 12:05 PM
I'm trying to teach myself on the chase-cicle circuit.
27987 So pins 3 & 5 do nothing on the moc3032?
Correct. they are not used.

Is there a circuit picture for the BTA06-600CW triac?
I've looked but can't find one.
Yes, it is found in a datasheet, like here (http://www.st.com/web/en/resource/technical/document/datasheet/CD00000670.pdf).

IaRoadKill
03-17-2015, 12:35 PM
Ok, that lead me to this

27988 27989

So a triac is a 2 diode circuit? :hmm:

But it only has 1 DC out? :huh:

dirknerkle
03-17-2015, 12:52 PM
The Wiki is your friend! Google "what is a triac" and you'll find this.... all you ever wanted to know about them...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIAC

IaRoadKill
03-17-2015, 12:56 PM
Correct. they are not used.

Yes, it is found in a datasheet, like here (http://www.st.com/web/en/resource/technical/document/datasheet/CD00000670.pdf).

Is there any reason that I can't connect pin 6 on the moc3023 to MT1 through the 180 resistor instead of MT2?
27990

LightUp
03-17-2015, 12:56 PM
Ok, that lead me to this
So a triac is a 2 diode circuit? :hmm:
Sort of; We call that two SCRs, Silicon Controlled Rectifier

But it only has 1 DC out? :huh:
Think of it as a switch, rather than "DC out".
You see, a triac (and the silicon rectifier) when they are triggered they switch on, with a fraction of a volt drop across it. They stay in the ON state until the current reaches zero. The applied pulsating DC voltage, (e.g. full wave rectified and unfiltered) will reach zero volts every 8.333 ms for a 60 HZ line voltage. When voltage reaches zero so will the triac current, hence shutting it off.

LightUp
03-17-2015, 01:22 PM
Is there any reason that I can't connect pin 6 on the moc3023 to MT1 through the 180 resistor instead of MT2?
You can swap the MT1 and MT2. I think it changes the trigger current sensitivity. But since AC is used it is designed to be triggered from either method. Most circuits use MT2.

IaRoadKill
03-17-2015, 03:53 PM
SCISSR stands for "Single Channel In-line SSR".... we left the "O" out of scissor and came up with that instead... A SCISSR is essentially 1/4 of a DirkCheapSSR. That's it. A single VO2223A chip, a resistor; exactly the same exact connections that are in the DirkCheapSSR.

For those who are wondering why the DC voltage works, it's because unfiltered DC still has a zero point in the wave pattern. Straight rectified DC doesn't have a zero cross in the purest sense because the voltage never gets to the negative component of the 60hz wave. However, it still has a zero point, in fact, it has 120 of them, same as 60hz AC power does. TRIACs need the zero point to "turn off" and that's why this implementation still works. The voltage on the TRIAC side of the VO2223A chip reaches zero and the TRIAC ceases to conduct current.

And the reason dimming still works is that the controller's H11AA1 chip is providing the 120hz ZC signal to the PIC chips, and it happens to match the timing of the zero point of the straight rectified DC that's going through the VO2223A chip, so when the PIC issues the control signal to the data side of the VO2223A chip to turn on the chip's internal optocoupler, it still knows how long to turn the chip on before hitting the zero point.

This design won't work with filtered DC however because the voltage through the VO2223A chip would never reach the zero point and the chip would therefore never turn off.

So I'm trying to figure out why I can't make the chase-cicle SSR work on my DC test.
27991 27993

My only idea's are that the zero cross circuit in the moc3023 is the problem, or the 180ohm resistor is.
The resistor is there to protect the moc3023 right?

LightUp
03-17-2015, 04:20 PM
So I'm trying to figure out why I can't make the chase-cicle SSR work on my DC test...
How are you doing a "DC test"? Fullwave bridge rectifier setup?

... My only idea's are that the zero cross circuit in the moc3023 is the problem, or the 180ohm resistor is.
The resistor is there to protect the moc3023 right?
The resistor is to limit the current and yes, to protect the MOC3032.
The zero cross in the MOC3032 will prevent you from dimming, but not from turning it ON or OFF, like a manual switch.
Perhaps you should have used the MOC3023, which allows dimming.

IaRoadKill
03-17-2015, 05:35 PM
How are you doing a "DC test"? Fullwave bridge rectifier setup?

The resistor is to limit the current and yes, to protect the MOC3032.
The zero cross in the MOC3032 will prevent you from dimming, but not from turning it ON or OFF, like a manual switch.
Perhaps you should have used the MOC3023, which allows dimming.

Yes I am using my full wave rectifier but no lights will light. Nothing.

Yes I am using MOC3023.
I don't see where I called it a 3032.

LightUp
03-17-2015, 07:26 PM
Yes I am using my full wave rectifier but no lights will light. Nothing.

Yes I am using MOC3023.
I don't see where I called it a 3032.
Post #47 and you referred to your part as having a zero crossing built in and I could only find the MOC3032 with a zero crossing circuit inside, just as you showed in one of your little drawings.
Hence I guessed at that part being your problem.

Assuming you wired things correctly,
- do you have a trigger pulse from your controller to trigger the MOC3023?
- do you have a ZCD output to initiate your Arduino interrupt?
- are you getting a dc voltage at your rectifier output?

IaRoadKill
03-17-2015, 07:39 PM
Post #47 and you referred to your part as having a zero crossing built in and I could only find the MOC3032 with a zero crossing circuit inside, just as you showed in one of your little drawings.
Hence I guessed at that part being your problem.

Assuming you wired things correctly,
- do you have a trigger pulse from your controller to trigger the MOC3023?
- do you have a ZCD output to initiate your Arduino interrupt?
- are you getting a dc voltage at your rectifier output?

Well.....

I guess I googled the wrong thing. My dyslexia is showing again!
Your quite the detective!

I am using the Ren32 to send the signal, no Arduino on this project.

I'm hooking it up the same as I did with the SCISSR's. Puzzling? :hmm::hmm:

LightUp
03-17-2015, 07:52 PM
... Your quite the detective!
My middle name is Murdoch... :)


... I am using the Ren32 to send the signal, no Arduino on this project.
Hmm... detective skills slipping.


... I'm hooking it up the same as I did with the SCISSR's. Puzzling? :hmm::hmm:
Do you have enough parts to assemble another one? In case you have a bad part.
Or you have someone to verify your wiring? No offence intended. :)

IaRoadKill
03-17-2015, 08:07 PM
My middle name is Murdoch... :)


Hmm... detective skills slipping.


Do you have enough parts to assemble another one? In case you have a bad part.
Or you have someone to verify your wiring? No offence intended. :)

Yes, I can make 1 more. I didn't think of that.

I will make it tonight and test and post a video.
The last one took me a long time to make.
small parts, BIG FINGERS!

djulien
03-17-2015, 10:54 PM
Yes I am using my full wave rectifier but no lights will light. Nothing.


I've used the MOC3023 + BTA triac SSR circuit with rectified DC, so it should work - attached is a representative diagram:
27996

Could you post a diagram of the circuit you are using, including the bridge and connection(s) from the controller?

don

LightUp
03-18-2015, 08:25 AM
Yes, I can make 1 more. I didn't think of that.

I will make it tonight and test and post a video.
The last one took me a long time to make.
small parts, BIG FINGERS!
Also remember that you don't need a controller to turn the SSR on. Just ground the "Data", or "Channel Data" line, whatever you call it, of the MOC. While this line is grounded your lights should stay ON. If this test doesn't work then you know it's not a controller issue, but something is wrong with your SSR circuit.
Make sure that the ground point you are using is the same ground from where you get the +5V for your MOC.

IaRoadKill
03-18-2015, 10:17 AM
Do you have enough parts to assemble another one? In case you have a bad part.
Or you have someone to verify your wiring? No offence intended. :)

No offense taken. I just started teaching myself electronics July 2014. I started soldering in November!

Here is the new one.

I decided to spread it out. 27998 27999 28000 the black wires are for +

Here is the old one.

28001 28002

LightUp
03-18-2015, 11:50 AM
...Here is the new one... I decided to spread it out. the black wires are for +..
As far as I can tell, your board looks OK. What I can't tell is how you wire up the lights and power.
With a 5V power supply, you connect +5V to the black wire and the ground of the power supply to the terminal with the 680 ohm resistor. This should turn the lights on. No controller needed for this test.

IaRoadKill
03-18-2015, 12:20 PM
As far as I can tell, your board looks OK. What I can't tell is how you wire up the lights and power.
With a 5V power supply, you connect +5V to the black wire and the ground of the power supply to the terminal with the 680 ohm resistor. This should turn the lights on. No controller needed for this test.

It took me a while to hunt up a 5v wall wart.

Ok, both old and new light up lights.

IaRoadKill
03-18-2015, 12:34 PM
In predicting what your going to ask for next,

My Ren32 puts out 5.02v dc on pin 1

My signal wires (tested pin 2) are 5.02v when lights should be off and 0 when on.
When ramping lights from off to full on voltage on signal wire go from 5v(off) and ramp down to 0v(full on)

LightUp
03-18-2015, 02:28 PM
In predicting what your going to ask for next,

My Ren32 puts out 5.02v dc on pin 1

My signal wires (tested pin 2) are 5.02v when lights should be off and 0 when on.
When ramping lights from off to full on voltage on signal wire go from 5v(off) and ramp down to 0v(full on)
Good to hear you got it working.

IaRoadKill
03-18-2015, 02:49 PM
Good to hear you got it working.

I can only make it work with the wall wart. The Ren32 won't make them come on.

LightUp
03-18-2015, 03:01 PM
I can only make it work with the wall wart. The Ren32 won't make them come on.
OK, that begs the question how did you attach the SSR to the Renard?
You indicated that your Renard gets the proper signal out.

How does your Renard get its 5V? That same +5V must be attached to your SSR's black wire.
Then the Renard output will provide the "ground" when going low to your other (resistor) wire of the SSR.

IaRoadKill
03-18-2015, 03:26 PM
OK, that begs the question how did you attach the SSR to the Renard?
You indicated that your Renard gets the proper signal out.

How does your Renard get its 5V? That same +5V must be attached to your SSR's black wire.
Then the Renard output will provide the "ground" when going low to your other (resistor) wire of the SSR.

I will make new video.

IaRoadKill
03-18-2015, 04:44 PM
OK, that begs the question how did you attach the SSR to the Renard?
You indicated that your Renard gets the proper signal out.

How does your Renard get its 5V? That same +5V must be attached to your SSR's black wire.
Then the Renard output will provide the "ground" when going low to your other (resistor) wire of the SSR.

Here it is.


http://youtu.be/WemPuY8DsmE

Skunberg
03-18-2015, 04:51 PM
Could it be the pic? I think the regular Ren vs Ren 48lsd would act like this.

Aurbo99
03-18-2015, 05:08 PM
Hiyas


I've re-read this thread a few times over the last few hours and I'm missing something.

What exactly are you trying to achieve with the lighting? dimming?, breaking a single string of lights into smaller segments to match the star layout? other?

Did I hear you correctly in the last video indicating the rectified 5vdc circuit you created also powers the Ren32?

LightUp
03-18-2015, 05:11 PM
Here it is.
Your SSR works when using the wallwart. Your CH1 now works in the video.
I would look for bad connections somewhere, plug, wires, screws, etc.

IaRoadKill
03-18-2015, 05:55 PM
Could it be the pic? I think the regular Ren vs Ren 48lsd would act like this.

I replaced the wire nut in Chanel 1, that I used in previous attempts, with a solder joint and heat shrink (black). That is probably why it started working.

Chanel 2 works with other SSR's so it is getting good signal. I wonder if the other female end is bad? No wire nut but.....

Skunberg
03-18-2015, 05:56 PM
Hiyas


I've re-read this thread a few times over the last few hours and I'm missing something.

What exactly are you trying to achieve with the lighting? dimming?, breaking a single string of lights into smaller segments to match the star layout? other?

Did I hear you correctly in the last video indicating the rectified 5vdc circuit you created also powers the Ren32?
I think this is a spill over from another thread and is more electronics training than the goal of seperate ssr's for each channel mounted on the prop. So yes it's hard to follow.

angus40
03-18-2015, 06:01 PM
You may find one of these use full in circuit building , design and trouble shooting .

http://www.gearbest.com/development-boards/pp_136572.html?currency=CAD&gclid=CjwKEAjwxKSoBRCZ5oyy87DimEcSJADiWsvgn4o2vHQd joQvl_MFGmXNXYQZt-pHjRfmCj95SAJj0RoCLZLw_wcB

angus40
03-18-2015, 06:02 PM
Google chrome > leave page hiccup< double post

IaRoadKill
03-18-2015, 06:14 PM
Your SSR works when using the wallwart. Your CH1 now works in the video.
I would look for bad connections somewhere, plug, wires, screws, etc.

I'm a DUMB *$&@!

LED's are diodes. They only work one way! I unplugged the 25 ct string (all facing the same way) and reversed the plug (180 deg turn) and they work!

I had a 50/50 chance on all attempts and NEVER picked the correct orientation! IF IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A 50 ct STRING, HALF OF THEM WOULD HAVE WORKED!

I WANT THE LAST 2 DAYS BACK! LOL

Thank you everyone for helping me. I did learn that I'm more dyslexic than I thought, and I learned allot more about electronics.

I will probably NEVER forget that LED's only work one way on DC!

WOW! Drink time! :smoke: Now where was I?

IaRoadKill
03-18-2015, 06:35 PM
Hiyas


I've re-read this thread a few times over the last few hours and I'm missing something.

What exactly are you trying to achieve with the lighting? dimming?, breaking a single string of lights into smaller segments to match the star layout? other?

Did I hear you correctly in the last video indicating the rectified 5vdc circuit you created also powers the Ren32?

Sorry about the confusion.

My star will have 32 channels and the lights that I bought for it do not dim well. Capacitors in the plugs.

So while I'm replacing the ends and getting the correct resistance, yes I will be shortening strings, I figured I would put diodes in each string also. But, rather than put diodes in 32 strings, I thought why not just power the lights with DC. Hence the FULL WAVE RECTIFIER. That's when my problems started, and yes I was working on it in a previous thread as well ( Ren32 v1.0 beginners setup tests ). I decided to move it because the Ren32 was working properly.

If I did say, in the video, that I was powering the Ren32 with DC, that was the RUM talking. Input AC power goes to the FULL WAVE RECTIFIER but I continue AC to the Ren32.

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO PUT DC POWER INTO THE REN32!
I don't know if it would hurt it, but it's to valuable to find out.

IaRoadKill
03-18-2015, 06:42 PM
Oh yea,

I was converting strings to DC.

28004

:biggrin2:

LightUp
03-18-2015, 07:38 PM
Oh yea,

I was converting strings to DC. ...:biggrin2:
Now with those lessons behind we can move forward. whoo hoo....

IaRoadKill
03-20-2015, 11:06 PM
I'm getting there....28025

dirknerkle
03-21-2015, 12:47 PM
How much is that thing going to weigh when it's all said and done? And how many amps? Shaaazzzaaaaaammmmmm!!!! The neighborhood's going to go dark when you power that baby up!!!

Looks great though!!!

IaRoadKill
03-22-2015, 08:04 AM
How much is that thing going to weigh when it's all said and done? And how many amps? Shaaazzzaaaaaammmmmm!!!! The neighborhood's going to go dark when you power that baby up!!!

Looks great though!!!

I only have the rays left to string. WooHoo!28033

LED total will be 1,344 warm whites. I hope it will be bright at full on. :cool2:
Should only draw 1.13 amps.

I don't know about the weight yet, but I'm guessing 20-25 lbs.

This concept started as a 4 ch project and quickly jumped to 16 ch and then to 32 ch. :omg:
I am now planning on 48 ch and looking at making it 64 channels. :whtf:

dirknerkle
03-22-2015, 09:54 PM
I only have the rays left to string. WooHoo!28033

LED total will be 1,344 warm whites. I hope it will be bright at full on. :cool2:
Should only draw 1.13 amps.

I don't know about the weight yet, but I'm guessing 20-25 lbs.

This concept started as a 4 ch project and quickly jumped to 16 ch and then to 32 ch. :omg:
I am now planning on 48 ch and looking at making it 64 channels. :whtf:

That will indeed be bright! Just be careful that you don't run into the old "build a boat in the basement" problem!"

IaRoadKill
03-22-2015, 11:05 PM
That will indeed be bright! Just be careful that you don't run into the old "build a boat in the basement" problem!"

I will be asking for structural engineering help for poles in the near future. :hmm:

The tree that I was going to hang it from will not work.

I think that I want to suspend it between 2 poles, 30' tall, supported from 2 old davit bases. I don't have the spacing measured yet.

dirknerkle
03-22-2015, 11:27 PM
You might contact jrock64 on long poles that support top-heavy things. Joel lives in Iowa, by the way.... which has nothing to do with living in Florida, but your name "IaRoadKill" reminds me of road kill I've seen driving through the fields of Iowa... maybe you're from there???

IaRoadKill
03-22-2015, 11:42 PM
You might contact jrock64 on long poles that support top-heavy things. Joel lives in Iowa, by the way.... which has nothing to do with living in Florida, but your name "IaRoadKill" reminds me of road kill I've seen driving through the fields of Iowa... maybe you're from there???

Your a detective toooo.....

I drive a big white 1ton dooley pickup in Iowa w/a roadkill license plate!

That is where it all started!

IaRoadKill
03-22-2015, 11:49 PM
So if I want to send 64 ch of control to my star, on the fewest wire strands of cat5, how many channels can share 1-5v wire strand (for signal)?

dirknerkle
03-23-2015, 03:21 PM
So if I want to send 64 ch of control to my star, on the fewest wire strands of cat5, how many channels can share 1-5v wire strand (for signal)?

If you're using a conventional controller, such as a Ren64, you need one line for each channel and one for common +5v to trigger the SSRs. That would be 65 strands.

But if you work conventionally, a Ren64 has 16 outputs and you'd need 16 cat5 cables from the controller to the 16 SSRs on the star.... assuming, of course, that your SSRs have 4 channels apiece... Now that's a lot more strands of wire, but it's only 16 connections instead of 65.... easier in the long run...

IaRoadKill
03-23-2015, 04:50 PM
Ok...

If you're using a conventional controller, such as a Ren64, you need one line for each channel and one for common +5v to trigger the SSRs. That would be 65 strands.

But if you work conventionally, a Ren64 has 16 outputs and you'd need 16 cat5 cables from the controller to the 16 SSRs on the star.... assuming, of course, that your SSRs have 4 channels apiece... Now that's a lot more strands of wire, but it's only 16 connections instead of 65.... easier in the long run...

That's more cable than I wanted to send up to my star.

New idea:

What if I hold the ch count down and go back to my Ren32 mounted in my star. I remember reading something about adding ch's to an existing Ren. Are you familiar with that item?

And what if I want to put an Xbee in my star? I can do that with a Ren-W correct?
Then all I need is one power cord.
(Or I get your wireless extension cord!)

Skunberg
03-23-2015, 11:03 PM
Even with the Ren64 and 16 SSRs you only need one power cord to the prop.

dirknerkle
03-24-2015, 12:31 AM
Ok...


That's more cable than I wanted to send up to my star.

New idea:

What if I hold the ch count down and go back to my Ren32 mounted in my star. I remember reading something about adding ch's to an existing Ren. Are you familiar with that item?

And what if I want to put an Xbee in my star? I can do that with a Ren-W correct?
Then all I need is one power cord.
(Or I get your wireless extension cord!)

Putting the controller in the star is a good idea and would eliminate a lot of cat5 and have only 1 power cable. Yes, the Ren-W will work; a Snap-in also works with the Renard Plus 32.

I've heard of such an adapter for adding channels to a Renard... but yes, the wireless extension cord would be an outstanding solution.

IaRoadKill
03-24-2015, 08:13 AM
Putting the controller in the star is a good idea and would eliminate a lot of cat5...
I've heard of such an adapter for adding channels to a Renard... but yes, the wireless extension cord would be an outstanding solution.

You sell the adapter! It took me about 4 hours to find it again!

MINIREN PIC ADAPTER!

Can you add more than 1 to a Ren32 controller?

dirknerkle
03-24-2015, 10:27 AM
You sell the adapter! It took me about 4 hours to find it again!

MINIREN PIC ADAPTER!

Can you add more than 1 to a Ren32 controller?

ROFLMAO!!!! Hah.... yeah... got bunches of 'em... Since I created the PIC Adapter 2 or 3 years ago I've found all kinds of uses for them -- I hacked one last year and turned it into a tiny 8-channel servo controller, I've used them as parallel outputs and even RJ45 interconnects. Turns out it's a pretty versatile little gizmo to have.

A Renard controller typically has only ONE output pin where all the overflow data goes, which is supposed to daisy-chain to the next controller. This is how you can connect two RP32's together and get essentially a 64-channel controller. It would probably be more efficient to do that instead of trying to add four PIC Adapters, daisy-chained into one another, although I suppose it could be done. The PIC Adapter is powered by the original controller and it all depends on how much extra current the controller can provide before it starves itself of electrical current. When that happens, controllers work unpredictably, which is most certainly not something you want... You'd have to chect the capacity of the controller's power supply to determine how much extra it has. My initial guess is that it's not enough. That's why I suggested a second RP32 instead of the PIC Adapters.

But in the DIY world experimentation is what it's all about!

IaRoadKill
03-24-2015, 12:10 PM
Don't hurt yourself!:shifty:

dirknerkle
03-24-2015, 01:44 PM
I'm sorry, I've gotten the RP32 from Renard Plus confused with the Ren32 from Diyledexpress. They both are fine, 32-channel Renard controllers but their design approaches are different: The Renard Plus 32 uses a single PIC for all 32 channels while the Ren32 from Diyledexpress uses four smaller PICs to achieve the same result.

This is one of the great things about this hobby -- there are many ways to make things work and in some ways, having all these fantastic options can be confusing and in other cases, just makes it hard to decide what you want to do.

The good news is that all these controllers have interconnection capability through the common RS485 communication stream, where the output of one controller can go into the input of the next one. To the viewers, it's all transparent. And for the DIY'er, using RS485 to interconnect controllers is a proven, solid good way to make it happen. DMX is the same -- it's essentially running on top of an RS485-type mechanism.

Thing can get a little weird when you venture into wireless though, because the controllers are no longer interconnected -- it all happens in mid air.

IaRoadKill
03-28-2015, 11:30 AM
I need help looking for a fuse holder/clips for the little fuses that are in light string plugs. I want to mount it on a PCB or in-line.
I never have any luck searching mouser.

Any help would be appreciated.

IaRoadKill
03-30-2015, 09:26 AM
I ordered some clips. We'll see if the work.

Here is a progress picture...

28094

At this stage, it looks like something else.....:wink:

Creativedesign
03-30-2015, 01:34 PM
At this stage, it looks like something else.....:wink:

Unique, i'll give you that! Can't wait to see it lit up, should light up the neighbors yards......

IaRoadKill
03-31-2015, 08:54 PM
So, tonight I took a break, under duress, and went to the neighbors for cocktails, and my wife offhandedly refered to my star as "the mistress".....:(

LightUp
04-01-2015, 08:59 AM
So, tonight I took a break, under duress, and went to the neighbors for cocktails, and my wife offhandedly refered to my star as "the mistress".....:(
I hear that Light Therapy maybe helpful for your C.L.A.P.

masterful
04-01-2015, 04:56 PM
Like the look of the star.
I wonder what kind of lux level it will produce. Maybe we will see it from space.....

IaRoadKill
04-02-2015, 04:35 PM
I've been working on my electronics again.
28123

This will be the brains for 72 channels. :pragnie::pragnie::whtf::rolleyes:

IaRoadKill
04-05-2015, 10:37 PM
28159
Almost done wiring and....

28160

)$@@&;!

:bomb:Note to self:
Yes, a zip tie lets it swivel. But it also breaks! :bomb:

algerdes
04-06-2015, 12:18 AM
Tough break. (No pun intended.) Have you had a chance to re-hang it and see what got messed up?

IaRoadKill
04-06-2015, 02:39 PM
Finally repaired. I had to cut the bottom apart to straighten it out.

28161

Now to finish the wiring.
I'm going to have light RAYS coming down to a manger scene, and want to make them in 4 parts.
Does this look correct? I'm using the chase-cicle idea.

28162

IaRoadKill
04-14-2015, 03:28 PM
I finished my control box.

http://youtu.be/giWMqxprrew

Why doesn't the simple Renard series work like my other Renard 32?

http://youtu.be/cbHTyInPPtw

Help!

angus40
04-14-2015, 03:34 PM
I finished my control box.

http://youtu.be/giWMqxprrew

Why doesn't the simple Renard series work like my other Renard 32?

http://youtu.be/cbHTyInPPtw

Help!

try pwm firmware on the ren8 if there is an available file / or the controller is capable of .

angus40
04-14-2015, 03:57 PM
I hope you do not have to address issues within your control box during show time .

IaRoadKill
04-14-2015, 04:08 PM
It's like a random roll of the dice.
If I unplug it, and plug it back in, sometimes I get dimming, sometimes I don't!
Why?

IaRoadKill
04-14-2015, 04:40 PM
After 10 try's, or so, I got the SR32's to work.


http://youtu.be/jeaN9AMFH5E
But if I unplug it and plug it back in, it's a roll of the dice.

IaRoadKill
04-22-2015, 08:33 AM
I re-flashed the pic's on my controller. Here is what I got.

http://youtu.be/0P2Aj3WtTW0
But...
The goofy dimming has been fixed!
Big thanks to Mac for his help!

http://youtu.be/d48u-tCx-d8

http://youtu.be/GPU5jAhIWsA
That was a sequence of ramp up, ramp down, candle Flickr and then twinkle.

Now I'm jazzed again!
Back to wiring it all together.
I only have about two thirds of this side of the star wired together. Probably two or three more days of wiring and soldering to finish the whole star.

IaRoadKill
04-25-2015, 02:54 PM
It works!!!


http://youtu.be/nv3GUPs3Mqk

chadowamsley
04-25-2015, 04:49 PM
Very well done.

NDNS00ner
04-27-2015, 11:34 AM
Good job Roadkill.....