Time to gauge Renard 64 interest again.

[Mrplow123]

If you do not already know about this project, here is the original post over at the old pidimmer forum.
http://picdimmer.17.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=97

Well I have been seeing a few posts from people about the Renard 64 baord that I successfully built and tested, thanks to Phil. The board is just about ready for a COOP order, just a few updates need to be made to the board and BOM. Once those changes are made I can send it out for a large production order. The only problem is, we need a minimum of 50 boards to make the price anywhere near sane. The price DROPS a bunch, if we could get to the 150+ range. I am pretty sure this number will be pretty un-reachable, unless everyone on this forum wants 1 to 2 boards each.

When I posted about this a few months ago, the interest was too low to justify an order. So here I am again, looking to see if we can get enough people interested in this order.

Here is the price break down. Prices have changed a bit.

With a 4 day turn time...
50 boards = $17.73 ea.
150 boards = $12.26 ea.
250 boards = $11.16 ea.

If I streatch it out to a 4 week turn time..
50 boards = $11.33 ea.
150 boards = $8.06 ea.
250 boards = $7.41 ea.

These prices do not include shipping, but I am pretty sure I can ship atleast 2 boards to each person for around $2.00.

Once again, I have nothing to gain from this. I have enough boards here to fill my needs from the Beta testing order. I would really like to see more people using this design. For the tottal board cost, it is one of the best designs and easiest to setup. If we can not meet the minimum order number, then I would be willing to make a smaller order for those who really want this board, as long as they are ready to pay around $25-$30 each.

I have included a poll, please vote honestly, and please also post how many you would be interested in a post. I will not hold you to this, I just need to see how many boards we can hit. If you are not interested in buying some of these boards at all, please don't vote, it will throw off the counts.

Also, I know the price is lower as the quantity goes up. So let me know how many you would be willing to take if the order was at 50, and also at 150. But just remember if we can get people to comit to atleast 2 boards each, we will hit the lower prices faster.

More to come soon...

[jderba]

David,

I'd really like to get a hold of one of these boards. I'll commit to 2 boards if there is enough interest to make it to 50 or 150 boards.

If there is not enough interest to make it to 50, I would still be interested in commiting to 1 board at the higher price if that was an option.

Thanks for doing this, hope it works out

Jack

[JerryWS98]

I'm in for 2 whether we hit 50 boards or not. If we get up to 150 then I'll order 4.

Thanks for your work! Here's hoping that we have enough interest to get a great price!

[Ronp]

I will be ordering for JeffPen01
3 boards 4 if the price come down

[RavingLunatic]

I'm in for some boards also, here is the breakdown:

If 4 day turn time: 3 boards, if we break the 150 level then 5 boards

If 4 week turn time: 6 boards

Hopefully there is enough interest to make it happen this time.

[bonuts]

I'm ready to buy even though I'm not 100% on how to assemble. I bet if there were a solid BOM and detailed assembly documentation you'd see A LOT of interest in the COOP.

Here is what I will buy.

50 boards = $17.73 ea. (qty 1)
150 boards = $12.26 ea. (qty 2)

If I streatch it out to a 4 week turn time..
50 boards = $11.33 ea. (qty 2)
150 boards = $8.06 ea. (qty 2)

[wingrunr]

I'm in for 2 boards at any price.

Is the BOM on the wiki completely up to date?

http://christmasinshirley.com/wiki/index.php?title=Renard64

Edit: changed # of boards

[Matt]

Probably 2 for me, unless we get to a really low price.

-Matt

[Matt]

How about using Advanced Circuits special where we get a 2-week time at the 4-week price? A 4-week turn might be too long, but those prices in a shorter time might make more people interested.

http://4pcb.com/index.php?load=content&page_id=129

-Matt

[Sean Bowf]

Has any thought been put into who is going to be doing the PIC programming??

I think at a minimum, those showing interest need to be made aware that the PICs will need someone to program them, for the Renard to work.

I am interested in at least 2, and may commit to more when we figure out what the final price is.

My vote is for the longer turn time for the lower price.

Sean

[Wayne J]

I will offer up to program some of the chips. I may even just buy a small lot of chips, program them and send them out.
Thoughts?

:)

[Wayne J]

I also would be in for one board.

[dgreen]

I am in for two.
I would also like to buy a pic already programmed if anyone is doing that.

Thanks all

[bonuts]

I'm assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that I'll be able to buy one of these and program the PIC's easily (I've never done it before). If so, and if it's easy, then I'd probably offer to program other people's too.

http://cgi.ebay.com/JDM-PIC-Programmer-Microchip-16F84-40-18-zif-sockets_W0QQitemZ200137162626QQihZ010QQcategoryZ36 66QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I'd very much appreciate it if someone can correct me if I'm wrong about this programmer. Thanks.

[ErnieHorning]

I'd very much appreciate it if someone can correct me if I'm wrong about this programmer.
That's the chip that we use, so this will work fine.

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/8738/16f688nu5.jpg

[Rod_R]

I am in for at least 2 boards. I may get more if the price lowers.
Brian

[wingrunr]

Is the BOM on the wiki up to date? The 71-CSC08A01-680 resistor networks are not available from Mouser. They are not stocked. Is there an alternative part?

[P. Short]

I've made a few changes to the BOM just now. However, I would not order parts until someone else has reviewed my changes (hint, hint), and it is certain that there is going to be a Renard64 order.

--

Phil

[wingrunr]

Ok, good. If someone could post when the parts list is finalized that'd be wonderful.

I forgot to mention that I also have a PICkit2 so I can program PICs if needed.

[Mrplow123]

Well so far I am counting 23 boards. Some people are holding out for the lower price. We will never get to the lower price if people don't step up and say something. I was contacted by another member today who said he can get the boards made for around $7.00 each. So there is a possibility of getting them a bit cheaper. But so far we can't even hit the 50 minimum.

I will talk to this other member and see if he wants to take this over. I have to be honest, I have 40 ssr boards to assemble, and 2 more Renard 64 boards to assemble. Not to mention I am going to storage this weekend to pull all of my lights and displays out and start sorting and testing stands, and replacing bulbs. I have over 40 ssr's to complete and build outlet boxes for. I already have a cherry picker scheduled to be delivered the 2nd week of November for putting up the lights in my trees. I am shooting for a Thanksgiving evening lighting ceremony. And somewhere in there I still have to sequence over 160 channels to 30+ minutes of music.

So what this means is, I am way toooooooo busy to worry about this coop now. I had the time a few months ago, but time is running out, just incase no one has looked at a calendar lately, there are only 115 days left till December. It might seem like a long time, but not when you are puting together a hugh display. 160+ channels and 30,000+ lights.

All I can say to end this is, this board is one of the better designs out there, and more people should be using it. Good luck everyone.

[wjohn]

Team of fellow Xmas Light Nuts

This is a great opportunity to get with a 64 Channel controller that is dimmable. I have discussed with David the prospect of running a COOP for the board, but we will need some commitment from the Forum.

I know there are a lot of choices out there at the moment, and I dont want to dictate what boards people should use.

The broad choices are controller that are either Non-Dimmable and Dimmable.

The 595 Coop was finished last year, and Brian may not want to run another this year.

The GRINCH is the lowest cost entry, however it is non-dimmable (unless you use the RENC and this is still in testing)

The REN8 was a pilot for dimming, and does not look like it will progress to a full Coop.

THe REN16 is available, but not sure of the future for another COOP.

The REN24 (Frank's) is in final design stages and may progress to a COOP.

The REN64 is a proven design.


I think it is healthy to discuss the merits of various controllers (to dim or not to dim) RS-232/485 or LPT; Olsen, RENARD or DMX, but we need to get behind a couple of the designs and move them along.

Just my 2cents.

[Doug-in-the-woods]

I would be interested in a Renard as it is the main topic of discussion lately.
Built a 595 last year so lets go with a renard.
FIRST - what do I need?
1 -= 595 that I used in 06
I have 18 complete ssr boards w/moc3023 (zero crossing?)
18 more that need to be built
1 595 yet to be built
I understand that the pic programming may be offered by ??
what is estimated cost of building a complete board and how many channels-I keep seeing different number of channels
put me down for 2 boards depending on ansewers to above.
kinda lost in Salmon, Idaho

[Matt]

Doug-In-The-Woods:

-Your SSRs with MOC3023s will work fine. This board has RJ45 connections like the 595.

-PIC programming is easy, but requires a PIC programmer (in the range of $20-$50). I have a PicKit 1 from Mouser, made by Microchip. There have been some offers for people to program the PICs for the coop.

-Cost depends. The cost of the boards, plus the parts. Someone else who's done it already will have to answer in terms of the parts cost. The board comes with per-channel LEDs, and leaving off those and the resistor packs will save you a bit, (plus allow you to use non-PWM firmware, which consumes less power).

The layout looks like this:
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/2981/renard64finalsf6.jpg

The BOM and schematic can be foud here:
http://christmasinshirley.com/wiki/index.php?title=Renard64

And more information on the board can be found if you dig a bit through the picdimmer archives, at picdimmer.17.forumer.com

I hope this answers your questions, if not feel free to post again.

-Matt

[Matt]

I made up a spreadsheet of the BOM with costs. At current prices, parts will be roughly $50 per board, or $60 with LEDs. These could be brought down with a parts COOP, but that's a huge time-consuming task.

8 PICs cost $21.52. Maybe we could do a COOP on just PICs? If we order 100 pics (13 boards worth) the price for PICs per board would only be $11.20 (almost half the cost), bringing the board cost down to about $40. With more PICs we could probably get a quote for even cheaper. However, this all depends on someone being willing to organize it...

The spreadsheet:
http://tools4lights.googlepages.com/Ren64BOM.xls

-Matt

[wingrunr]

I was under the impression the BOM was not finalized yet.

Those PICs are only a $1.07 on Microchip's website direct. You can get samples if you have a business/university e-mail address. You can get 3 for free.

[ErnieHorning]

There are a couple of things that I noticed about the schematic.

The first line of the notes mentions using an external supply. I don’t know what the original intent was, but no power will be obtained from J1.

The line that states “The second possiblility is to install RR9 and Q1” should read “The second possibility is to install R1 and Q1”.


If the cost is $7 or less per board, I’ll take 4. It isn’t worth my time to hand make these at that price. I wonder how many boards we could get for the $500 free deal Advanced Circuits is still running. I also wonder what the criterion is for a company. How many companies can you have?

[P. Short]

That note about J1 should have read U1 (replace the regulator with a connector). Your comment about the "The second..." is correct, there as an error in the note on the schematic.

--

Phil

[wjohn]

Ernie,

nothing is for free ;-)

[Matt]

I'm not sure what their criteria for a company is, but when I tried I couldn't provide a company name and $500 in free PCBs went down the drain.

-Matt

[Wayne J]

I'm not sure what their criteria for a company is, but when I tried I couldn't provide a company name and $500 in free PCBs went down the drain.

-Matt

Same here :cry:

[bonuts]

This is very disappointing to see this coop stagnating. I hope we're still able to pull it off. I would offer to run it but I have to study for the PMP exam until late Oct.

[P. Short]

It's not stagnating...people are posting in another topic.

--

Phil

[Wayne J]

Well so far I am counting 23 boards.

Does that count the folks that are interested from the previous thread?

[wjohn]

i am sure we can hit 50+ with a bit of effort.

[RavingLunatic]

Now that Mrplow123 isn't going take this on (and I don't blame him with all that he has on his plate), do we have someone who is going to get the boards made?

With a 4 week turn time (to reduce costs) we are looking at late September before boards would be delivered and that is if the order is placed fairly soon. Setup time will be upon us before we know it.

[wingrunr]

Yes, I agree we need to get the ball rolling. How much is it per board for 25 or 30 boards? And are we using Advanced Circuits? I may be able to get a decent deal on them because I am a student. I've never ordered PCBs before so a bit more info would be great.

wjohn, are you going to do this per this (http://www.christmasinshirley.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=405) thread?

I'm looking at putting together a PIC coop. If we get more than 100 we can get them for $1.40 per PIC through Microchip direct.
http://www.christmasinshirley.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2660#2660

[Matt]

Advanced Circuits has a deal where we can get boards with 4-week prices and get them in two weeks. Maybe this would be a viable option?

-Matt

[Doug-in-the-woods]

this 64 board is dimmiable for 64 channels?
it needs a 595 between it and pc?
will the ssr boards (Seans design) work for this board? I have 18 still needing parts and a 595 in same state.
approximate end cost for a complete board?
programed pic chips?
looking at Renard 24, 64 and Renard C (needs to be right next to pc and 595-too many cats running through the wall?
I WANT dimming capabilities this year but which on
A comparision chart would be helpful.

[P. Short]

This coop is for the Renard64, which has nothing to do with the 595 board and which does work with Sean's SSR boards.

The distance from the PC to any of the Renard boards is basically RS232 distance (unless you have a RS485 converter after the PC). These distance numbers are a bit fuzzy, but RS232 should be good for up to perhaps 100 feet (even though the RS232 spec says less), and RS485 should be good for up to several thousand feet.

--

Phil

[RavingLunatic]

Doug,

Is this what you are looking for?

I'm sure there will be some who will not be happy that I left off REN-T and REN-C but I just slapped this together to show the differences between each of the controller boards in their original form.

I also didn't show the cost of populating the SSR boards.

Hope this helps you in your decision on which way to go.

[wjohn]

make sure you look in the COOP section of the Forum for the Offical RENARD 64 Coop

John.