Brand New Ren 16 Acting Strange

[rstehle]

I soldered up one of the new Ren 16 boards that I got from wJohn. I began testing it last night and got some strange results but attributed it to being excited and tired. I just got done testing it again and am seeing the same things, so I need help.
Here is what I am seeing: When I trigger a channel in Vixen, the corresponding board channel does not come on......... the channel lineup is weird.
Channels 1 - 8 in Vixen light up channels 9 - 16 on the board.
Channels 9 - 16 in Vixen light up channels 1 - 8 on the board.
The lights will chase great, but I cannot get more than 2 strands to come on solid at the same time. I tried all on, ramp up, ramp down but could not get all 16 channels to come on at the same time at all.
The PIC's I am using are ones that I got from Frank with my Ren 24 boards and have PWM firmware and worked properly in a Ren 24.
I am testing with mini lights, one strand per channel.
(I don't have a scope for troubleshooting.) Any ideas?
Thanks,
Randy

[ben]

I didn't know the Ren16 and 24 PICs were completely interchangable. I knew they were similiar but not excact. Thats good to know.

Ben

[RavingLunatic]

Channels 1 - 8 in Vixen light up channels 9 - 16 on the board.
Channels 9 - 16 in Vixen light up channels 1 - 8 on the board.


Unfortunately, with this batch of boards this is the correct order.
Maybe with the next batch (if another batch gets made) a silkscreen change can be made.

As for your other problems:

All Renard (8, 16, 24, 64) PICs are interchangeable.

Do you have complete control of individual channels?
If so, do you only have problems when trying to control multiple channels?

I would monitor your 5 VDC line (TP6) while you are having problems and see if it is dropping too low. A DMM would work fine for checking this.

[Wayne J]

Edited for bonehead reply. TP6 is 5v .... input is 9 - 12VDC

[rstehle]

Do you have complete control of individual channels?
If so, do you only have problems when trying to control multiple channels?

I would monitor your 5 VDC line (TP6) while you are having problems and see if it is dropping too low. A DMM would work fine for checking this.

I have complete control over individual channels, my problem is whenever I try to have more than 2 channels on at the same time. Once I get past 2, none of the lights will come on at all. With 1 or 2 on, I can ramp on, off, sparkle, whatever.
I have checked the voltage at TP6 and it remains steady at 4.96 volts regardless of the state of the system. It does not fluctuate. What else should I look at?

[Virtus]

See if you can ramp and sparkle channels 1 and 9 together (same time) okay. Maybe the issue involves channels on the same PIC? If that works okay try channels 1 and 2 together and then 9 and 10 together.

[Wayne J]

I know it sounds trivial, but check all the solder joints. Make sure you didn't miss one anywhere.

[ben]

I know it sounds trivial, but check all the solder joints. Make sure you didn't miss one anywhere.

yes do that!! I even have my dad look them over. Another thing I do is hold them up to a light so I can see a little better for those little pinholes.

Ben

[RavingLunatic]

Some other things to consider:

Try testing with only the left side populated. See if that changes anything.

Check to see if the resistor networks (S1 & S2) are installed correctly.

[rstehle]

See if you can ramp and sparkle channels 1 and 9 together (same time) okay. Maybe the issue involves channels on the same PIC? If that works okay try channels 1 and 2 together and then 9 and 10 together.

I can only get one channel from each bank to come on solid at the same time. After 1 each, nothing lights up at all. 1 and 2 together won't come on, 9 and 10 together won't come on. 1 and 9 come on fine, or any single channel from bank 1 and bank 2 will come on. Once I try to activate more than one channel per bank, nothing lights up on that bank. I have checked solder joints (twice) and part polarity. Swapped out all of the pics (not all the MOC's, but did swap a couple of them).

[WWNF911]

Lets divide and conquer. Are you sure all lights are ok? If you try to turn on more than 2 set of lights do you see 110 on all channels you are expecting? Try swapping out light sets. It seems like something is loading the board down when you are trying test. I'm not sure this is a good idea, but perhaps you could turn on 4 at a time on a un-loaded board, then measure voltage to see if you get what we expect? (110)

[Virtus]

I can only get one channel from each bank to come on solid at the same time. After 1 each, nothing lights up at all. 1 and 2 together won't come on, 9 and 10 together won't come on. 1 and 9 come on fine, or any single channel from bank 1 and bank 2 will come on. Once I try to activate more than one channel per bank, nothing lights up on that bank. I have checked solder joints (twice) and part polarity. Swapped out all of the pics (not all the MOC's, but did swap a couple of them).

Is there a current limiting resistor connected to each PIC? (I don't have a Ren16 but just did a bunch of Ren24s). Are they the correct values? Because it kinda sounds like the PIC doesn't have enough umph to drive the outputs past one in this case.

Check your resistor color bands against this photo from Xmus' website.

[RavingLunatic]

Lets try something creative:

Try turning on channels 1 and 8 or 9 and 16. Now with your current problem nothing comes on, correct?

If so, then apply a jumper to either J1 or J2 (depending on which side you are testing) while in this condition.

Did the cooresponding channel come on?

If it did then the problem is related to the PIC signal, if the channel still did not come on the the problem lies with the Opto/Triac section.


EDIT: Another thing to try is this:

Place jumpers on J3 and/or J4. Turn on Ch 2 and/or Ch 10.

Does the cooresponding diag LED turn on? It should.

Now turn on another channel at the same time. Your current problem should cause both channels to be off, right? Did the LED go out and/or dim greatly?

If the LED remained ON at the same brightness, then the signals to the Optos probably are good and the problem is on the Triac side (or the wiring of the lights).

If the LED went completely off, maybe the PIC signals are to blame.

If the LED dimmed significantly from what it was for only 1 channel then I would look at the optos and resistor network again (measure from pin 1 of all the optos to TP6 and you should read 680 ohms, power off of course).

[rstehle]

If the LED dimmed significantly from what it was for only 1 channel then I would look at the optos and resistor network again (measure from pin 1 of all the optos to TP6 and you should read 680 ohms, power off of course).

RL,
The resistance I measure from Pin 1 of the optos to TP6 is 1.35K ???

[RavingLunatic]

That means your resistor network is most likely backwards and you are reading 2 resistors 680 * 2 = 1360

Remove and rotate your resistor network.

[Virtus]

Also check the orientation (pin 1) on the Opto's to make sure they are all aligned the correct way. And confirm the triacs aren't backwards on some of them?? Confirm with picture from above post.

Was the power off (and disconnected) when it measured more than 680 ohms?

UPDATE: Great catch, RL!

[rstehle]

RavingLunatic - You Da Man!! That was it! I (red face from embarrasment) installed the resistor packs backwards. Turned them around and Voila!! All lights on!!! Thanks to all of you that gave me guidance!! I really appreciate it. That's what makes this place so special!!
Now to put together the other 15 of them...........;)

[ctmal]

Looking at the resistor networks, the writing is on the front with the dot to the left, correct? (I'm troubleshooting mine right now)

Chris

[rstehle]

Yes, that is correct. The end with the dot goes to the left where the square is on the board.

[ctmal]

Thanks, that's how I have them.

[WWNF911]

ctmal did you double check the orientation of the optos as virtus suggested? Can't remember if it was this thread or the other.

[ctmal]

Yup, they are all pointing right. I'm when I run Vixen I can't even get the diag led's to light.