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livinglightshows
07-14-2014, 10:19 AM
How many channels are you Vixen 3 users running? Have you had any problems with stuttering during show playback? I had some last year and this year am planning to add quite a bit more channels and am concerned. In a perfect world I would export the show and use a linux based player like xLights or Raspberry Pi but export is not an option yet. Just looking for feedback from those of you who have more channels than me (I have around 7000 channels)

Thanks.

jcarney
07-14-2014, 10:22 AM
I have about 4,000 and it runs fine. It is also my primary home machine and doesn't have an issue. However it is a very powerful machine.

jchuchla
07-14-2014, 10:44 AM
It actually has more to do with how many effects you have rather than how many channels. Often more channels mean more effects. But not always. For example if you have a pixel roofline with 500 pixels, that's 1500 channels. But if you have them all in one group and use a single effect to set it red, that's a fairly efficient operation.
The things that are really performance hogs are things like nutcracker effects and twinkle where each pixel is doing it's own thing.
Also sequences imported from vixen 2 can often be very inefficient until you go thru them and create proper V3 effects taking advantage of the V3 style effects and grouping.


--Jon Chuchla--

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

livinglightshows
07-14-2014, 11:04 AM
4000 pixels or 4000 channels?


I have about 4,000 and it runs fine. It is also my primary home machine and doesn't have an issue. However it is a very powerful machine.

jcarney
07-14-2014, 11:06 AM
4000 channels. And I am adding another ~1800 this year. Yes most are pixels except ~250

livinglightshows
07-14-2014, 11:10 AM
I have quite a few nutcracker and individual pixel effects. I built everything from scratch last year in Vixen3 so V2 import is not an issue. I am concerned about what I am going to do this year because looking at other sequencers I do not think they have as much power as V3 for doing the effects that I have so I cannot "start over" but I am pretty sure playback is going to be choppy with V3.

What is the status of the development team on V3? I noticed there are no new releases in quite a while. Have they abandoned the project?


It actually has more to do with how many effects you have rather than how many channels. Often more channels mean more effects. But not always. For example if you have a pixel roofline with 500 pixels, that's 1500 channels. But if you have them all in one group and use a single effect to set it red, that's a fairly efficient operation.
The things that are really performance hogs are things like nutcracker effects and twinkle where each pixel is doing it's own thing.
Also sequences imported from vixen 2 can often be very inefficient until you go thru them and create proper V3 effects taking advantage of the V3 style effects and grouping.


--Jon Chuchla--

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

davrus
07-14-2014, 11:29 AM
The Vixen 3 Development Team has not stopped working on the project.
A couple of key developers had home/work situations which reduced their "free time" available for what is effectively a hobby.
And the Development Build process computer was no longer available.
There are now "temporary" builds available. I would wait for the next one (the July 8 build had introduced a problem with Nutcracker grid effects, which now seems to be fixed.)

jchuchla
07-14-2014, 12:10 PM
Davrus is correct. The dev team is very much active. There was a build as recent as last week. Most of the work lately has been related to the sequence editor and many usability improvements.
The elephant in the room has been the performance issues related to the execution engine. This is a tricky one to solve and as I understand it, it's quite invasive to the whole playback engine. There's only one or two guys who have a good enough grasp on this very complex part on the code, so that's what's been stalling this work. First because those few guys have had limited time. And secondly because it's such a big task. There's a few things all connected to this task. First is native playback performance. And secondly is the ability to export. And lastly is how the scheduler might interact with the new features of the updated execution engine. So it all falls into order. Once the huge task of reworking the EE is complete, then you'll start seeing things like exporting and scheduler enhancements.
Remember this is beta software, patience is the key.


--Jon Chuchla--

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

algerdes
07-14-2014, 12:24 PM
Other than sitting quietly while they work (something I can do, but my wife almost moved out the last time I tried), what can we do to help?

jchuchla
07-14-2014, 12:52 PM
Unless you're an experienced C# coder and can quickly get up to speed on the codebase, I don't think there's a whole lot that most of us can do at this point. (myself included)

algerdes
07-14-2014, 01:01 PM
I'll give my wife the heads up. :sad:

james70818
07-19-2014, 11:41 PM
I saw the last Beta release and was hoping the performance had been enhanced. But like you said, it is the white elephant.

Jon, I know the guys are working on it when they can and I as well as the rest of the community appreciate all the work that has gone into Vixen 3. But is it realistic for us to hope that the performance issue will be fixed for this season's show? Just trying to figure out what I will be adding this year and what to do with the show. I'm sure more and more people will be getting online over the next month or so getting ready for the mad rush! Plus I really want to use the Jumbo Tron I built last year! :) It was just too much for V3 last year.

James

Gnarmstr
07-20-2014, 05:38 AM
This is my first year and I have around 20,000 channels and am now finding V3 to be stuttering when I do some detailed effects and thats not even using the two matrix I have. I have a feeling that it's not going to work too well unless there is some major V3 performance improvements. I may have to dumb my sequence down a bit just to get by until the performance is improved. I want to stick with V3 because I do love how easy it is to sequence and the way they have made the groups and patching is awesome.

I even just upgraded my PC last week with the latest components, this has helped but still not perfect.

jeffu231
07-20-2014, 09:20 AM
I have turned my focus onto the engine and the enhancements needed to improve the performance. Michael and I have some ideas that we are currently working through deeper analysis on. So rest assured there is work going on, and we want to have it ready for this season, but it is not a simple task. The one thing I cannot do is make any promises as life could get in the way at any time.

Jeff

james70818
07-20-2014, 09:36 AM
Jeff,

I know you guys are working diligently on the issue. I also understand you guys are doing this for free for the community and the work is greatly appreciated! I wish I could help.

Thanks,
James

Traneman
07-20-2014, 10:48 AM
Jeff,

I know you guys are working diligently on the issue. I also understand you guys are doing this for free for the community and the work is greatly appreciated! I wish I could help.

Thanks,
James

Ditto here

Thanks

livinglightshows
07-20-2014, 11:27 AM
I really think you guys should NOT focus on revamping the playback engine but instead focus on creating an export for xLights instead. Take a look at Matt's work on the xLight code and you will see that he has made a lightning fast playback engine scalable to tens of thousands of channels. I do not think you can do any better espeacially using .NET languages. In addition you can export from xLights to the Falcon player. Just my two cents.

jchuchla
07-20-2014, 12:48 PM
The two actually go hand in hand. The way it works, we can't get to an export to other formats without doing the engine work. The vixen file structure is nothing like any of the other common sequencers. All of the other sequence formats are timeslice based. V3 stores much higher level data, and it's the engine that would have to render this format generate output. That output is either live controller data, preview data, and also this much desired exported file. Also, the engine not only affects scheduled playback for your show, but it also affects being able to sequence and preview large files in the previewer, so it's a very necessary step.

battle79
07-24-2014, 09:18 AM
I understand all these improvements are required to move forward with performance and export, and I cannot wait as I'm planning 18,000 channels.

What I would dearly love is a quick, simple update of 3.0.11 that makes the arches stay around so that my wife can start sequencing (and get off my back :-( ). I have built my preview using multiple rotated stars and starbursts that do not allow we to go back to 3.0.10.

Hopefully this is possible as I'm almost at the point of sleeping with one eye open. LOL

Cheers,
Rowan