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GrumpkaXmas
02-08-2014, 11:03 PM
Hello,

So, I'm looking for a bunch of Triacs to build my SSRNeons with (and some other projects).

BTA06-600C would be a nice option. Can I use those? Has anyone tried?
I noted that the most recent group buy offered BTA06-600CW, which is a higher gate of 35mA, verses C, which is actually less at 25mA. Rest of the specs about the same.
On state of S is 1.65 vs 1.55 of C. S only has a trigger of 10mA. However, if the CW is what you just used in the GB, certainly the 25mA would work with the MOC3023?

Ok, I'm way over my abilities and hurting myself with all these specs. If someone has used 600c on REN builds or SSR's w/ MOC3023's let me know.

Much appreciated.

Wayne J
02-09-2014, 12:05 AM
I think the question here, which you did not address is, why move away from the BOM?

corytcline
02-09-2014, 08:15 AM
I second Wayne J stick with the BOM lots of smart guys have already done the leg work to find what works the best!

GrumpkaXmas
02-09-2014, 08:33 AM
I think the question here, which you did not address is, why move away from the BOM?

Well, mainly on the count of cost savings. Second, my application may allow for a much lower load requirement than the original design. These aren't commercial builds, and the whole point of DIY and an open community is to experiment, explore, discuss, and learn from each other. I think the question about substitutions comes up often. If I can pick up 100 triacs on ebay for less than half the BOM spec, and I am in safe and reasonable parameters of the original design, why not? I saw the the Triacs of the Renards have changed a few times over the years. Even the most recent GB on Ren 24 spec'd BTA06-600CW. The BOM still listed BTA04-700's I believe. In my case, I plan on using LED's on the SSRNeons. Unfortunately, the BOM material for the BTA06-600S costs a lot more. Build one board, a few dollars more, no problem. Build 25 boards, that's a lot of money.

Ok... figured I'd ask. I know other forums they get very upset if you question the original design... I was guess this was a general question and a good one.... maybe not???

PS: I respect and appreciate the amazing work put into Renard by you guys. However, I'm new, so I'm going to ask questions. Maybe, even stupid ones...

P. Short
02-09-2014, 09:16 AM
There were a lot of difficulties a few years back with LED strings flickering that was largely resolved by careful selection of triacs. People aren't really interested in resurrecting those problems by re-opening the triac selection question. The problem is not very well understood, but I think that it has to do with the dV/dt rating of the triacs, with the triacs false-triggering due to noise on the AC power line caused by other channels powered from the same line turning on.

At this point I would say not to use the BTA06-600S parts, as they have the lowest dV/dt rating and are most likely to be associated with flickering problems. The best parts under discussion would be the CW parts (snubberless, with the highest dV/dt rating), followed by the C parts (non-snubberless, with an intermediate dV/dt rating). That said, I think that you will get similar responses as the earlier ones on this thread if you come back in nine months with flickering problems.

P.S. People are going to be unhappy with you if there are ten threads started by other people asking about this, that, or the other triac that they found on eBay trying to save a few dollars.

Donny M. Carter
02-09-2014, 10:17 AM
There were a lot of difficulties a few years back with LED strings flickering that was largely resolved by careful selection of triacs. People aren't really interested in resurrecting those problems by re-opening the triac selection question. The problem is not very well understood, but I think that it has to do with the dV/dt rating of the triacs, with the triacs false-triggering due to noise on the AC power line caused by other channels powered from the same line turning on.

At this point I would say not to use the BTA06-600S parts, as they have the lowest dV/dt rating and are most likely to be associated with flickering problems. The best parts under discussion would be the CW parts (snubberless, with the highest dV/dt rating), followed by the C parts (non-snubberless, with an intermediate dV/dt rating). That said, I think that you will get similar responses as the earlier ones on this thread if you come back in nine months with flickering problems.

P.S. People are going to be unhappy with you if there are ten threads started by other people asking about this, that, or the other triac that they found on eBay trying to save a few dollars.

Phil, I completely agree with everything you said except the comment about people being unhappy! Not that my opinion was asked, but no one should be told that there questions will make people "unhappy with you"!

Skunberg
02-09-2014, 11:37 AM
GrumpkaXmas, you should feel free to ask questions, the only dumb question is the one that isn't asked. I think you'll find that very true here with only a couple of exceptions and you happened to run into one, being kicked off RJs site for asking questions or talking about the latest split up are a couple of touchy subjects here. I personally am sorry that you have been jumped on (maybe overstated) but I think Phil turned it around and got your question answered.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

GrumpkaXmas
02-09-2014, 12:26 PM
Thanks guys. And thank you so much Skunberg, I do appreciate that. I guess rather than ask questions here, I can ask elsewhere without fear of this nonsense. This hobby quickly becomes a turn off when you need to fear asking the "Wrong" question. Is what it is.

Phil, I do understand what you are saying. That was WHY I asked the question. I searched "BTA06-600" and many variations. Nothing came up specifically. Otherwise I wouldn't have asked the question. There are thousands of threads/replies. Nearly impossible to find answers from older threads in some cases. No worries though. There are other places to ask....

P. Short
02-09-2014, 12:29 PM
Thanks guys. And thank you so much Skunberg, I do appreciate that. I guess rather than ask questions here, I can ask elsewhere without fear of this nonsense. This hobby quickly becomes a turn off when you need to fear asking the "Wrong" question. Is what it is.

Phil, I do understand what you are saying. That was WHY I asked the question. I searched "BTA06-600" and many variations. Nothing came up specifically. Otherwise I wouldn't have asked the question. There are thousands of threads/replies. Nearly impossible to find answers from older threads in some cases. No worries though. There are other places to ask....

I'm sorry that I jumped on you, it was not a good choice on my part.

GrumpkaXmas
02-09-2014, 12:42 PM
I'm sorry that I jumped on you, it was not a good choice on my part.

Apology accepted. Thank you.

Wayne J
02-09-2014, 12:59 PM
Jumped on???!!!! You are kidding right?

Wayne J
02-09-2014, 01:57 PM
I am trying to figure out where it was said you asked the WRONG question?? What you did do is, left the question with holes in it, no rhyme or reason to why you were looking for different parts. Hence MY question. Phil then answers your question VERY clearly, what he did say about folks being unhappy is starting a trend of asking question from new folks about parts replacement for no reason, which you did not have in the original post.


THEN... you make this statement above..... and then it makes complete sense where this comes from, when, I read what you wrote elsewhere on the internet about this thread. That is "nonsense".

arw01
02-09-2014, 02:08 PM
I would email the ebay supplier, ask for a couple three samples to try out and see what they do with your strings. In the world of LED strings a year or two is eternity and what was a problem before my longer be now, or a new problem my come up. Perhaps you are fine with putting a single incandescent on the end to act as a snubber and you save a bunch of money doing it.

THurrle
02-09-2014, 02:10 PM
My comments: (all in jest)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSQCeIO-ix8

GrumpkaXmas
02-09-2014, 02:24 PM
Bottom line, I apologize for causing trouble. I don't want to feed fires between boards. It was an honest question, but the rest wasn't needed on my part Wayne, You are right.

jklingert
02-09-2014, 05:36 PM
I searched "BTA06-600" and many variations. Nothing came up specifically. Otherwise I wouldn't have asked the question. This is the thread (http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showthread.php?19262-Replacement-Triac-For-Renard-SS-controllers&p=194666#post194666) that discusses the current triac choice and why it is a better choice.

ErnieHorning
02-09-2014, 07:46 PM
Bottom line, I apologize for causing trouble.
Yeah know, it's still do it yourself. There's nothing wrong with experimenting on your own and if you have problems, you already know why. It's how you learn. They may very well work just fine for you. Just know the potential risk.

LightUp
02-09-2014, 09:06 PM
Unfortunately, there is no easy solution to new members asking questions about issues that have been covered elsewhere on this forum. Nor do I see the problem going away soon. The search engine, in my experience, isn't sophisticated enough to only gather contextual information for a particular question, and leave the unrelated material out of it.

There is no automated FAQ, nor index, generated as time goes on. All the information is scattered throughout the forum. Who wants to spend hours looking for a bit of information that may, or may not exist, when a new thread might get it more quickly?

I have, in the past, spent a few hours, on and off, looking for a specific Renard schematic that I eventually found. But I didn't want to start a new thread for fear of someone telling me to use the WIKI or the SEARCH function, (which I actually did do, but still couldn't find it at the time).

Skunberg
02-09-2014, 09:42 PM
Being that your cost and low load (led) searching, maybe drop the triac and go in the DirkCheapSSR direction.
Just a thought if you haven't looked at them yet.

GrumpkaXmas
02-09-2014, 10:59 PM
I thought of going the VO2223A direction. I do have those on order. My search is for the triacs on the SSRNeons, so I have flexibility. Might drive animated reindeer, other decorations around the yard that will be incandescent, just not sure. Good thought though. Thank you.
I think I'll end up building one with BTA06-600CW, and another with 600c, and maybe even a third with something else. I have lots of time to test these. As it was suggested, I'll order a few of each triac and try them out.

dirknerkle
02-09-2014, 11:08 PM
A good way to test these things is to make a single, 4-channel SSR and put four different triacs in it. Then keep it handy for testing with various kinds and brands of lights, because they do differ and of course, LEDs and incandescents are apples and oranges!

There is such as thing as a triac socket, but they're pretty expensive. Perhaps building the testing SSR with triac sockets would make the most sense -- then you could just swap different kinds in and out and chart which are the best for your particular installation.

Hmmmm.... a triac tester with a triac socket... sounds like something the DIGWDF engineers ought to work on.... hmmmmm....

P. Short
02-09-2014, 11:15 PM
If the old problem with flickering is present, it may not necessarily make itself visible until you some number of channels. Off-hand I can't say how many channels are needed, but it may be more than just four. The typical symptom is that channel A flickers on and off by itself when some other channel(s) are either turned on and off or their intensity is ramped up/down. And not all people experienced the problem.

kingofkya
02-09-2014, 11:24 PM
If the old problem with flickering is present, it may not necessarily make itself visible until you some number of channels. Off-hand I can't say how many channels are needed, but it may be more than just four. The typical symptom is that channel A flickers on and off by itself when some other channel(s) are either turned on and off or their intensity is ramped up/down. And not all people experienced the problem.


IN my experance on the old renardSS triacs with leds it was the length anything past 10-12ft and i had flicker issue with lights.
Edit: the cord on the output.

Wayne J
02-09-2014, 11:32 PM
IN my experance on the old renardSS triacs with leds it was the length anything past 10-12ft and i had flicker issue with lights.
Edit: the cord on the output.

I had seen it on 6' cords myself. (in my own testing)

ErnieHorning
02-09-2014, 11:33 PM
So we actually don't have any oscilloscope pictures, just theories of what it could be? So we just attributed it to dV/dt, found a TRIAC that worked and left it at that? Nothing was ever added to the wiki?

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P. Short
02-09-2014, 11:48 PM
Ernie,

Yes. It was two years ago, and I don't remember that I was ever able to observe the noise (if that's what it was) on a scope. I never actually had the problem here, likely because I have only one or two LED strings. I did observe the phenomenon at another members house, but was not in a position to set up a scope there. Are you in a position to set up for viewing the situation on a scope yourself? Even at this late date it would be useful to have confirmation.

ErnieHorning
02-10-2014, 12:00 AM
I haven't used LED's in my display in past years. Though I'm still partially setup, it's 100% incandescent. I do have a scope if anybody locally can reproduce this phenomenon. I'd be glad to stop by and snap some photos.

If we can at least get an idea of what the noise looks like, it could be reproduced in a lab situation. Then it would be easier to recommend appropriate TRIAC's and/or come up with a fix for the existing one's.

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P. Short
02-10-2014, 12:06 AM
My conjecture is that the noise induced on the power line (if that's truly the problem) is independent of the TRIAC selection, and so it should be observable even the the 'C' or 'CW' triacs. But like I said, this is conjecture, and a true test would involve using board(s) with the previous TRIAC selection. I may still have some around, although most of TO220 triacs that I've purchased over the years are T410 or similar parts, rather than BTA/BTB parts.

ErnieHorning
02-10-2014, 12:23 AM
I have some BTA TRIAC's, just not sure what the postfix are. I understand the dV/dt issue but it's typically caused motor commutation. I think the problem is also related to power factor. One picture could potentially make the problem clear though.

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kingofkya
02-10-2014, 12:46 AM
Another thing to add, at least in my case i was also getting flicker when ever the garage door is running. It looked like it would trigger once every couple seconds, for maybe a single cycle?

However it was a different flicker. I don't think its related still.

ErnieHorning
02-10-2014, 12:59 AM
The garage door thing is caused be the commutation of the motor referred to above. Similar but this thread is about noise caused by other TRIAC's.

In the case of a motor, the noise is caused by an inductor being disconnected from power. I think this thread is in reference to the point when another TRIAC(s) turn on.

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LightUp
02-10-2014, 01:01 AM
Was the problem related to a specific series of boards?

I have a DMX16 ACSSR by RPM, but don't recall if anyone had an issue with flicker of his boards. I was not involved with a coop but bought my own parts. I bought the BTA06-600SRG triacs but have not yet populated the board with them.

So, I'm interested in this thread. :)

Don6699
02-10-2014, 01:39 AM
I have been using the BTA06-600C Triacs for a stand alone project that I pulled together that's a four channel led display, programmable suing a ATtiny85 ic with no problems,
what I see is the inductive current triggering the triac if you were to short cycle causing a spike and the led are not inductive at least as I use them, maybe at a larger load.
23114
23115

budude
02-10-2014, 02:09 AM
While it's good to get data points, I'm not sure much may be gained by folks saying "I've been using XYZ TRIAC for years with no issues". It may be it doesn't matter which ones you had because for whatever reason, the conditions were not present to cause issues in the first place. What we may want to look into are those folks that had issues and clearly fixed them with replacements. Again, the other data may be good to collect as well but not sure it helps determine the root cause.

From what I recall many folks had issues during particular portions of their sequences - semi consistently. Also - quite a few folks cured their issues with various methods including adding snubbers and/or using power strips with built-in conditioning circuits, etc. Definitely lots of pieces to this puzzle...

You could always go DC of course! :wink2:

Don6699
02-10-2014, 03:52 AM
Your right, no inductive current using DC, or filter with a hand full of caps to chop the top off of spike. The age old Edison vs Tesla story

LightUp
02-10-2014, 03:15 PM
Another factor is that a triac's higher junction temperatures lower the dv/dt parameter.
Wonder if any noticed whether their unit was hot (temperature wise) during a flicker episode?

Skunberg
02-10-2014, 04:18 PM
I believe that the flicker was more common in the warmer climates but not limited to them. So temperature was kinda ruled out or limited to a contributing factor. I believe that most people with the issue added snubbers to clear the issue, again not all. And I recall at least one that snubbers didn't work. It was all over the board and no one could nail down a single issue for all. But it does seem to be history as we don't see several complaints this year.

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LightUp
02-10-2014, 06:28 PM
...It was all over the board and no one could nail down a single issue for all. But it does seem to be history as we don't see several complaints this year.

That's a good epidemiological point.

TED
02-11-2014, 07:59 AM
So we actually don't have any oscilloscope pictures, just theories of what it could be? So we just attributed it to dV/dt, found a TRIAC that worked and left it at that? Nothing was ever added to the wiki?

Don't hold back Ernie--tell us how you really feel! ;)

TED

TED
02-11-2014, 08:20 AM
I think the question here, which you did not address is, why move away from the BOM?

I second Wayne J stick with the BOM lots of smart guys have already done the leg work to find what works the best!

One of the ways that improvements are made is by asking questions and trying different things. If no one ever tried something different there wouldn't be 85 different types of renard boards listed in the wiki!


Well, mainly on the count of cost savings. Second, my application may allow for a much lower load requirement than the original design. These aren't commercial builds, and the whole point of DIY and an open community is to experiment, explore, discuss, and learn from each other. I think the question about substitutions comes up often. If I can pick up 100 triacs on ebay for less than half the BOM spec, and I am in safe and reasonable parameters of the original design, why not? I saw the the Triacs of the Renards have changed a few times over the years. Even the most recent GB on Ren 24 spec'd BTA06-600CW. The BOM still listed BTA04-700's I believe. In my case, I plan on using LED's on the SSRNeons. Unfortunately, the BOM material for the BTA06-600S costs a lot more. Build one board, a few dollars more, no problem. Build 25 boards, that's a lot of money.

Before I even read your reply I was thinking the same thing. You can save a substantial amount of money by shopping around for some of these parts. (If you are buying small quantities then Mouser is one of the most expensive places to buy.) Sometimes you happen upon a deal just by searching through some of the parts sites. I just happened upon some BTA10-400CRG triacs for 23 cents and the minimum quantity is 1. That's more than $1 savings per triac compared to the price (of the BTA06 part) at Mouser. Check it out:
http://parts.arrow.com/item/detail/stmicroelectronics/bta10-400crg#gQJE

TED

ErnieHorning
02-11-2014, 08:43 AM
You can save a substantial amount of money by shopping around for some of these parts. Realize though, if you don't know what you're looking for, it could actually cost you substantially more. You could get something that doesn't work or doesn't work very well. Of course it's possible that you could destroy your board too.

It's good to experiment with unproven ideas but Thomas Edison had a few things that didn't work too.



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corytcline
02-11-2014, 09:15 AM
I ment nothing negative or discouraging in my comment, was simply trying to help. He wanted to use led's I knew about the flickering issues that seemed to be mostly fixed by the triac change so thought it would save him more money to not go down the same flickering road.

Wayne J
02-11-2014, 03:26 PM
One of the ways that improvements are made is by asking questions and trying different things. If no one ever tried something different there wouldn't be 85 different types of renard boards listed in the wiki!



Before I even read your reply I was thinking the same thing. You can save a substantial amount of money by shopping around for some of these parts. (If you are buying small quantities then Mouser is one of the most expensive places to buy.) Sometimes you happen upon a deal just by searching through some of the parts sites. I just happened upon some BTA10-400CRG triacs for 23 cents and the minimum quantity is 1. That's more than $1 savings per triac compared to the price (of the BTA06 part) at Mouser. Check it out:
http://parts.arrow.com/item/detail/stmicroelectronics/bta10-400crg#gQJE

TED

So Ted... what you are really saying it is only certain questions are encouraged, right? I asked WHY stray from the BOM. I wanted to know the intention, purpose, reason for it so I could give a better more informed answer. But according to your logic, (and others who have seemed to jump all over this), we are to simply answer the questions willy nilly with no regard to what the situation is, if possibly it could be a safety hazard , etc, etc.....
I never said, hey, you have to use the BOM, Hey, dont ask questions. I can however in the future, just give Yes, or No answers to these potentially dangerous questions if that will encourage MORE questions so we can further promote this hobby without the fear of having to answer a "why" question, and hey, if someone gets hurt, at least they got an answer without being asked why they wanted to change parts, right?

ErnieHorning
02-11-2014, 03:34 PM
I ment nothing negative or discouraging in my comment...All I’m saying is if you choose to use different parts than the ones that we’ve found to work and though may work for you in your particular situation, don’t expect them to do so in all situations. If you ever have problems, the first place to suspect is where you changed from the recommended BOM.

If they work fine for you then great! But if they don’t then you’ll spend more time and money than you originally thought you were saving. Just know your risks and what you’re willing to accept.

That said, I hardly ever use what’s in the BOM’s. I use what I have on hand first. I have the ability and equipment to troubleshoot unknown anomalies. It’s also only Christmas lights. If they don’t work, it’s not the end of the world. Trouble shoot and fix or replace and move on. I’d prefer that stuff doesn’t break though since it’s dog gone cold out there.

CaptKirk
02-11-2014, 07:54 PM
<gets on soapbox>

This particular subject seems to be quite a "touchy" subject! It looks like there is an element of "dark art" in finding the right part to use. It is quite a frustrating situation to have. It is also frustrating to not know why a change is working. I am sure that frustration feeds into some of the responses here.

Maybe something to keep in mind is that the designs ARE the "baby" of the designer and someone asking about making changes is like attacking the baby! However, I too am always on the looks for a cheaper way to do things and saving something like $1 a part on a high count part REALLY adds up. It is not very helpful to say "use what I say because I say so!" rather than having a GOOD, open-minded reason for the original decision.

<gets off soapbox>

Ok, I will shut up now...

Wayne J
02-11-2014, 08:15 PM
<gets on soapbox>

This particular subject seems to be quite a "touchy" subject! It looks like there is an element of "dark art" in finding the right part to use. It is quite a frustrating situation to have. It is also frustrating to not know why a change is working. I am sure that frustration feeds into some of the responses here.

Maybe something to keep in mind is that the designs ARE the "baby" of the designer and someone asking about making changes is like attacking the baby! However, I too am always on the looks for a cheaper way to do things and saving something like $1 a part on a high count part REALLY adds up. It is not very helpful to say "use what I say because I say so!" rather than having a GOOD, open-minded reason for the original decision.

<gets off soapbox>

Ok, I will shut up now...

Nope... not it, sorry.

Sometimes people want to change parts simply because they found a deal, or sometimes because of a design change, and other reasons I am sure. BUT.. to just jump on ebay or tayda or where ever and start throwing up part numbers and saying, "Hey will this work?" without saying WHY you want to use it, leaves the question wide open. Sooooo, when we ask, why the change, it all the sudden becomes a "TOUCHY" subject to those who want to stir the pot.
So is it so bad to want to know why a part change is wanting to be made so more sound advice or answers can be given? Or are we to simply shut up and say Yes or No without even knowing the application? And really, how can the question even be answered if there is no WHY explanation attached.

Sorry Kirk, no big conspiracy, just some simple application questions to try and help people with better choices. Nice try though.

angus40
02-11-2014, 08:33 PM
Is/was the flicker issue with incans and leds or just leds ?

I have read on the web where various people have posted dimmer issues with leds and have solved it with a parallel incan .

I gather this would be the snubber solution ?

Being that I have a few ren ss boards I have yet to experience flicker on my snowflake leds.

One thing i do notice is that my snowflake leds seem to sometimes be on at very low power with no sequence going on . .

would the snubber be used to bleed off this low power issue ?

Not trying to hijack just would like to gain the know how .

Cheers

Richard

Skunberg
02-11-2014, 09:07 PM
Yes, I think snubbers will solve your problem but not bleed off. It adds load for a more complete shutoff.

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Wayne J
02-11-2014, 09:24 PM
Yes, I think snubbers will solve your problem but not bleed off. It adds load for a more complete shutoff.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

I would clean the board first. I experienced this on a single string last season and dampness was the cause.

CaptKirk
02-13-2014, 06:34 PM
Nope... not it, sorry.

Sometimes people want to change parts simply because they found a deal, or sometimes because of a design change, and other reasons I am sure. BUT.. to just jump on ebay or tayda or where ever and start throwing up part numbers and saying, "Hey will this work?" without saying WHY you want to use it, leaves the question wide open. Sooooo, when we ask, why the change, it all the sudden becomes a "TOUCHY" subject to those who want to stir the pot.
So is it so bad to want to know why a part change is wanting to be made so more sound advice or answers can be given? Or are we to simply shut up and say Yes or No without even knowing the application? And really, how can the question even be answered if there is no WHY explanation attached.

Sorry Kirk, no big conspiracy, just some simple application questions to try and help people with better choices. Nice try though.

Wayne- I read the same question and although not OVERTLY answered, it was pretty understandable TO ME why he wanted to try the other part - because for HIM it would be a "nice option" which to me equates to price/availability/good shipping options. You jumped to the "why" question abruptly and in what read to me to be a brusque/grumpy voice. You did not even give the WHY for your why question which would have helped soften the response. I stepped in NOT to "stir the pot" as your own conspiracy theory postulates, but because you were pushing away a new member. I know this because I was in touch with him directly and was asked "what your issue was..." and I wanted to try to reduce any hurt feelings. I also know from asking or making similar types of suggestions that "do as I say" seems to be a TOO common answer with these sorts of topics.

I did not mean to annoy you more than you already seemed from your posts even though I thought I was better tuned into both sides of the disconnect, but, alas, that did not work out.

So maybe the way I would have answered his question would have been more like:

"You did not say why you wanted to deviate from the BOM recommendations, but I will try to answer your question without knowing the full reason for the need to change. Electrically the 600C or S will work, however, with LEDs and some other incandescent applications, there has been a channel flicker issue that is difficult to root cause. We have found the recommended part, the 600CW seems to minimize the flicker (without knowing fully why it does so) so we would recommend using the CW part but you certainly can try the others without burning anything up."

Make sense?

Wayne J
02-13-2014, 08:09 PM
:lol:.... talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill. You guys just don't quit. :lol:

CaptKirk
02-13-2014, 09:51 PM
There is no "you guys", no conspiracies, no one is out to gain ANYTHING from people just trying to respectfully help people who just want to blink their lights. In the grand scheme of things- this is a hobby site, and if it went away, we would be sad, but not drastically impacted. I'm not sure why you act like it is anything bigger than that. It seems like you primarily are making a big thing out of nothing or at least the attitude that comes through your posts indicates issues. It is only a big deal because you are a moderator and a face for the site. When you are brusque or gruff with someone, it carries a bit more "weight" than if a member was to be rude or insulting. We understand when members do that and usually we can work it out, but I would hope a moderator would be held to higher standards than members.

So again- CW are recommended because of flicker, but C or S will function but might see inter-channel flicker and no one is sure WHY that is the case although the gate trigger levels and noise generated on the mains are suspected.

Richard U.
02-13-2014, 10:03 PM
Being new here, is there a new part that I should buy for my new controller? I really don't want to buy the wrong thing, especially if the BOM is wrong.

P. Short
02-13-2014, 10:11 PM
The BOM is not wrong. The entire discussion here is about the suitability of a particular substitute for the preferred part that is listed on the BOM.

angus40
02-13-2014, 10:24 PM
:lol:.... talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill. You guys just don't quit. :lol:

HaHa :) lmao



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeZ6C6-s0nE

GrumpkaXmas
02-14-2014, 05:19 PM
Being new here, is there a new part that I should buy for my new controller? I really don't want to buy the wrong thing, especially if the BOM is wrong.

Hi Richard,

Please realize that you should follow the BOM's as they are listed. This is really the only safe way to be sure the builds work as designed. There are countless folks who have built, tested, and continue to use the boards as they were designed. My OP was specific to SSR Neon's, not a control board. I'm a little more inquisitive and willing to try different builds at the risk they might have some issues, or might not work. I'm confident in my own skill level and background with A/C line voltage, therefore not too worried about having safety issues, or putting anyone else at risk by changing a part out. I put all lighting on GFI's and test everything that is accessible to others in a display or otherwise.

I would strongly suggest, as many other's have commented, STICK to the BOM if you are new and want to be sure every thing works the first round. I'm interested in saving money, but before I ever changed a part out from the BOM, I like to ask those who have been around. I also make sure to read as much as I can and try to really understand the parts, the specs, and how changing them may affect the outcome.

Long and short, you'll be happy with the Group Buys, kits, and other opportunities that are put together by the BOM. Don't let this thread side track you.

Just my opinion. I'm pretty new to all this as well. Learned a lot from all these guys in a short period though.

Good luck in the hobby.

hasoon
06-06-2014, 07:42 AM
Threads like this are why I almost didn't even post my "RJ45 Breakout Board Alternative" thread last night.

When I stumbled across that part I thought "wow those are cool, I should let my fellow DIYers Know". So I typed up a post, then as I was reading it I worried that I may offend the people who make the breakout boards. I re-wrote my post a couple times, gave up, deleted.

A half hour later I convinced myself that someone may actually want to use them so it was not fair to keep them to myself so I typed up the post again. That post took me about 20 minutes to write. I knew I had to compliment the original PCB, point out the ways it was better, but I didn't want it to sound like I was groveling.

The first thing I did this morning when I woke up was to grab my phone and check to see if anyone was mad. (the second thing I did was to read this thread, but I see it is old so I have no idea why it was at the top of the front page. If it was on the front page yesterday I never would have made my post.)

I wonder how many people have found their own cool alternatives to things and just don't bother to share out of fear.

ErnieHorning
06-06-2014, 09:13 AM
I wonder how many people have found their own cool alternatives to things and just don't bother to share out of fear.
I'm sure it does happen but making it public may also point out things you didn't consider. I don't post everything I do either. Not because of fear but because I don't necessarily follow any of the DIY standards and don't want to confuse anybody.

It would be best to start a new thread on this topic though.


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