Pics of my grinch & ssroz for RL or anyone else who has 10c worth of knowledge!

[toodle_pipsky]

As promised pics.

Off to the beach today, but will be looking at this stuff when I get back. I know, I know, how dare I go OUTSIDE, ANYWHERE when there blinky flashy to be troubleshooting. ;)

Thanks for your help, it's appreciated.

Cheers,
Ingrid

[Wayne J]

Looks good!

I do see one thing that I think you should really consider. Using sockets for the optocouplers. Two reasons...... You don't risk zapping one while soldering, and if you need to replace one, it can be done real quick if the display is running. (given you don't have spares, I always keep 5 spare units on hand as backups.)

[toodle_pipsky]

Thanks for the tip Wayne - that's one thing I've learnt in this hobby, keep lots of spares! hehehehehe. I did actually go to get ic sockets, but they were fresh out of the itty-bitty ones. They're on backorder now for me, plus the fuse holders, cleaned them out of that as well, all 2 of them. This is just put together for testing purposes, only got one put together.

Cheers!

[TERBObob]

Not sure I understand , but , why did you do your wiring like you did ? ( on the SSR )
I'm not sure I quite catch what your doing there .

[Macrosill]

Terbobob,
On the 4 channel ssr the neutral does not go on the board. The 110v hot goes to the board and the switch legs come off the board. The neutrals get tied together with a wirenut or other connection off board, under board in this case. :D


edit: In answering Terbobobs question I forgot the say how good the boards look. Great Work Toodle!

[RavingLunatic]

For Everyone: toodle_pipsky posted pics of her boards because she is having problems getting everything to work. We believe the Grinch is functional but now the SSR doesn't appear to be working.

toodle_pipsky: Boards look great for a self-professed beginner.

The SSROZ appears to be correct (hard to tell the color codes on the resistors).

I put the resistor values that you should have on the picture . I'm assuming 240AC for you. You can use your handy-dandy new multimeter to confirm the values. :D

Also hard to tell which way the ICs are installed but I put a red dot where pin 1 should be.

You can also check for continuity (0 ohms) from where your AC is coming in at to the center leads of the triacs (with no power applied). This will make sure that your fuse/connection is good.

I'm also assuming that the other lead for the AC coming in and the second light wire are connected together but not seen (hidden by board).

Also plug-in all four of your outputs of the SSR to see if you get any activity on the other channels. You could just move the wire from channel 1 to the rest and run the sequence over to see what happens.

How about your cable going from the Grinch to the SSR? Checked it yet?

Keep your chin up, we will eventually get your lights blinking. By then you will also be a pro in troubleshooting. :D

[deplanche]

Looks good!

I do see one thing that I think you should really consider. Using sockets for the optocouplers. Two reasons...... You don't risk zapping one while soldering, and if you need to replace one, it can be done real quick if the display is running. (given you don't have spares, I always keep 5 spare units on hand as backups.)

What is an optocoupler?

[Macrosill]

The Optocoupler or opto is the white chip on the relay board. They come in black also. In its simplest form it is a led that turn on inside the chip when 5vdc is supplied to it. When the led turns on it activates a light sensitive switch that closes the connection and activates the triac turning on the lights. There is no physical connection between the input and output side of the opto.

So an opto is an led that turns on the power.

[kmc123]

The Optoisolators are in correctly, and I'm having a hard time with the resistor colors as well...

They should be 680 ohms for the 5 that go to the Optoisolators and the LED, and 360 ohms for the 4 that connect to the triacs (For 240VAC)

Toodle - Any chance you could include a shot of the bottom of the circuit board?

[TERBObob]

If you zoom in on the opto's , they have an indent on them , which is right where you placed the dot . ( just trying to help )

[kmc123]

I zoomed in to 400%, and it looks like the 5 resistors for the optoisolators are blue, green,brown, gold - which if i'm reading the colors right is 650 ohms. They should be 680, but I think these will be ok - Can someone confirm that???

The 4 for the triacs look to be brown, grey, brown - which if i'm reading the colors right is 180 ohms - THIS IS A PROBLEM - 180 ohms is for 110VAC - They should be 360 ohms for the 240VAC

Toodle - Can you confirm the values / colors?

[piesrule58]

I zoomed in to 400%, and it looks like the 5 resistors for the optoisolators are blue, green,brown, gold - which if i'm reading the colors right is 650 ohms. They should be 680, but I think these will be ok - Can someone confirm that???

The 4 for the triacs look to be brown, grey, brown - which if i'm reading the colors right is 180 ohms - THIS IS A PROBLEM - 180 ohms is for 110VAC - They should be 360 ohms for the 240VAC

Toodle - Can you confirm the values / colors?

I live in OZ (240v) and I too am using 180 ohms for the 4 triacs. I have built 8 SSR's and have another 38 to go. I was given the parts list from wjohn who is also in OZ. Do I now have to ditch the 180 ohms transistors and redo the lot with 360 ohms? I am using 680 ohm for the opto's.

Cheers, Terry

[kmc123]

Yes - You will have correct the 4 you built, and finish the rest with 360 ohm resistors.

On my ssr boards (Both 2.5d and 2.5e) it's silkscreened on the board that 180 is for 110vac and 360 is for 240vac...

[piesrule58]

All of my SSR's will be connected to either 24v or 36v transformers. 240v will only be going to the transformers, not the SSR's. Does this mean 180 will be OK?

[kmc123]

That I can't comment on - I just don't have the experience with the 240vac stuff - Better left for someone who's done it...

I'm just telling you what's printed on my boards...

[piesrule58]

Thanks Kevin. I will confirm with wjohn that 180 is OK before I build any more.

[prof]

The sticky in the SSR forum (and a couple of other posts) go through the maths/reasons for the resistor values. Last year I used 180 ohms with lights running at 24V and 36V and had no noticeable issues with the brightness of the lights. But this was only on-off control of the lights. This year I will be dimming the lights so I have used resistor values of 36 ohm for 24V lights and 51 ohm for 36V lights hopefully to give the best possible dimming range.

[synnie]

As for the resistor values im using 100 ohm for 24 and 36V lights also, had no problems last year with them like Prof and am trying dimming this year. They were spec'd a bit high after going through the formula to get the values

[toodle_pipsky]

Back from the beach! WOOT!

Thank you so much everyone - it’s all worth more than 10c for sure. And thanks for the positive encouragement. My head is spinning with all this info! You'd think RL I'd be oh so knowledgeable about this and the Queen of troubleshooting, although at best I'm hoping I will not burn myself or blow myself up. ;) Compiling a nice big list of troubleshooting options which I hope someone might help me add to the wiki if they thought it was actually helpful. But I'm getting ahead of myself, gotta get it working first.

Raving Loonie: Aussie here, so 240AC is right (I think!). Resistor values are 180 (brown, grey, brown, gold) and 680 (blue, grey, brown, gold) ohms. Dumb dumb me just realised the pic I posted is upside down. So first “row” of resistors is 680ohms and second is 180ohms. This was according to the nifty list I was given, which I believe originated from John. Being the diligent little person I am, I just ordered straight down the list - however on closer inspection, and reading the posts, I’m thinking the 180ohm resisters should be changed to 330ohm resistors. . . . Is that right?

The ICs match up with your red dots.

The light wire is connected - I only snipped one side. You’re right the board is blocking it, sorry.

The cable from the ssr to grinch is ok - tested ok.

The fuse . . . . .mmmm it’s not sitting right. I hadn’t noticed before because I was concentrating on the grinch. I can’t get the fuse to sit properly so it keeps falling out.
This might be applicable to anyone in Australia who has used these parts to make sure I’m doing it right or got the right part - especially the fuse holder.
The fuse holder:
SZ2038 at http://www.jaycar.com.au/
The fuse:
520FUSES5A at http://www.futurlec.com.au/

When there’s no fuse in the holder, it closes ok. With the fuse is in, it doesn’t close (it has a little twisty top). I measured the fuse, it’s 20mm (and 5A 240V - as described, so I wasn’t sent the wrong one). Is there a trick to this I’m missing? I actually could only get one fuse holder - originally I thought I had bought 2. So is it a possibility I got a dud part?

Also if it’s still any help, here’s the underside of it. Yes, I know I should clean the flux off, and I know I can “tidy” it up a bit by snipping sticky-out bits. Be gentle, it’s only the fourth thing I’ve ever soldered.

Phew, what an awfully long post! Thank you again everyone. Happy Easter!

[RavingLunatic]

The fuse . . . . .mmmm it’s not sitting right. I hadn’t noticed before because I was concentrating on the grinch. I can’t get the fuse to sit properly so it keeps falling out.
This might be applicable to anyone in Australia who has used these parts to make sure I’m doing it right or got the right part - especially the fuse holder.
The fuse holder:
SZ2038 at http://www.jaycar.com.au/
The fuse:
520FUSES5A at http://www.futurlec.com.au/

When there’s no fuse in the holder, it closes ok. With the fuse is in, it doesn’t close (it has a little twisty top). I measured the fuse, it’s 20mm (and 5A 240V - as described, so I wasn’t sent the wrong one). Is there a trick to this I’m missing? I actually could only get one fuse holder - originally I thought I had bought 2. So is it a possibility I got a dud part?



If you can't get your fuse to seat correctly in the holder then you probably aren't getting your AC to the triacs, so it won't work.

I don't use the on-board fuse holders so I don't know of any special tricks to get it to seat correctly. For now, you could always take off the fuse holder and put a jumper wire where the fuse holder went.

Maybe someone else who uses those fuse holders can chime in and offer some assistance......


As far as whether or not your 180 ohm resistors are going to work or not seems to depend on what voltage you are actually hooking to the SSROZ board. Are you doing like piesrule, prof and synnie, and hooking the low voltage to the board or are you hooking the 240VAC to the board? The Aussie sector of the community will have to be your experts on that for you.


I think that you need to solve your fuse issue first tho....

[kmc123]

The trick is to stick the fuses into the cap first, then put the fuse / cap assembly into the holder...

[rlilly]

The trick is to stick the fuses into the cap first, then put the fuse / cap assembly into the holder...
Then press the cap down (compressing the spring) and then turn the cap clockwise to lock it.

[jmccoh]

The trick is to stick the fuses into the cap first, then put the fuse / cap assembly into the holder...

I've had some caps where the "contacts" were very out of round and had to really force the fuse into the cap so that it could be closed properly.

[ben]

I've had some caps where the "contacts" were very out of round and had to really force the fuse into the cap so that it could be closed properly.

I can contest to this as I put all the fuses in the olders before shipping these COOP orders. They ARE out of round to hold the fuse and its the way they are manufactured.
IMHO

Ben

[synnie]

How are you switching your lights Ingrid, are they on the input side of the transformer or the output side?

Ropelights are pretty much the only thing that is allowed to be used outside at 240V with all your other styles being 24 or 36V when used outside.

Here is the bible i guess you could say for SSR's http://www.simpleio.com/design/triacout/AppTriacOutGateResistor.asp

Cheers Synnie

[toodle_pipsky]

How are you switching your lights Ingrid, are they on the input side of the transformer or the output side?

Thanks for this, ummmmmm . . . . . I'll try and have a stab at answering this, I think I understand your question. Only been doing this for about 3 months so be patient! Every light string I have (with the exeception of one and I don't even know where it is at this point in time) uses wall warts, so that's the output side? A big nasty plug doesn't leave you with much options! Actually I think I read instructions somewhere that said "30-80cm from the light side of the transformer".


Here is the bible i guess you could say for SSR's http://www.simpleio.com/design/triacout/AppTriacOutGateResistor.asp

As for the link for the ssr info - thanks for that, hello favourites. It was an interesting read, probably only understood about 1% of it, but hey, I've been reading a lotta stuff in the last few months and it's the only way I'll learn. I take it that answers the question "are the 180ohm resistors ok"? And I take it that the answer is yes?

Thanks heaps. If I've totally answered wrong or missunderstood your question/info, please let me know.

[synnie]

Yep the wall wart plugs into your mains either directly or it has a cord from the big black box which goes to the mains power point. The lights then plug into this to get your 24V or 36v depending on the type. I switch my lights on this side.

[synnie]

Have posted a pic of the 2 types of transformers (wall warts) that i use. the left hand one has a lead which plugs into the power point the right hand one plugs direct into power point. The small plug and lead at bottom then plugs into these and is connected to the light strings. This plug could be any shape or style, i think i have 3 different types but the job is the same. if you read the label on your transformers it will say something like input 230/240V 50hz output 24V 24VA or 35V .Sometimes it doesnt say the volt/amps, just amps or watts.Hope thats not too confusing

[toodle_pipsky]

IT'S WORKING IT'S WORKING! I'm doing a little jig right now!

Thank you soooooooo much Kev (klanger) and RavingLunatic (I don't even know your name) and everyone else who posted tips and tricks and bits of info and mates in chat who talked me through stuff. You have one grateful girl dancing in the front room disturbing the neighbours. Virtual hugs to you all!

For anyone who is mildly interested in knowing what the problems turned out to be, it was getting the right pins in the parallel port plug, getting the fuse in the fuse holder on the SSROZ (which I ended up getting my mr muscles to do) and stepping down the power by putting a diode on the power in.

Now the journey begins . . . . . Thank you, thank you again.

[rlilly]

Congratulations, toodle!


What is an optocoupler?

Answering questions just got SO much easier!

DIYC Glossary (http://christmasinshirley.com/wiki/index.php?title=Glossary#O)

(Thanks again, RL & dmcole!)

[RavingLunatic]

IT'S WORKING IT'S WORKING! I'm doing a little jig right now!



Now this is the type of post I like to see when I first log on. :D

Congratulations Ingrid!!!

[scorpia]

IT'S WORKING IT'S WORKING! I'm doing a little jig right now!

Thank you soooooooo much Kev (klanger) and RavingLunatic (I don't even know your name) and everyone else who posted tips and tricks and bits of info and mates in chat who talked me through stuff. You have one grateful girl dancing in the front room disturbing the neighbours. Virtual hugs to you all!

For anyone who is mildly interested in knowing what the problems turned out to be, it was getting the right pins in the parallel port plug, getting the fuse in the fuse holder on the SSROZ (which I ended up getting my mr muscles to do) and stepping down the power by putting a diode on the power in.

Now the journey begins . . . . . Thank you, thank you again.


FANTASTIC NEWS. good to see you stuck with it and now its going.

All you need now is to build the ren-c and DIYCPS and dimming here yoyu come :)

peter

[mrpackethead]

Toodle, not sure if the journey begins, or just continues!!!

[klanger]

Ingrid thats great news::D Those late nights in chat where worth it:D

Now if anyone else has a problem we can ask Ingrid to help, I think she now qualifies as a troubleshooter:D

[wbuehler]

Good Job

Bill

[JEEPGUY]

Scorpia,

DIYCPS? Is that another term that needs to go into the glossary? Is that a reference to a DIYC Power Supply?

[rlilly]

Scorpia,

DIYCPS? Is that another term that needs to go into the glossary?
Yup.

Is that a reference to a DIYC Power Supply?
Yup,
Wayne christened the Ren-T replacement board recently HERE (http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2747&page=5&highlight=DIYC)

[Macrosill]

Just a friendly reminder to keep things on topic.

[aussiephil]

Ingrid,

WELL DONE.

Glad you stuck with it.

Phil

[wjohn]

Well Done Ingrid,

John.