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livinglightshows
10-10-2013, 01:59 AM
When I am in the preview mode if I click the preview checkbox to close the window it crashes the program. Once the program is opened again all my segments are greyed out and messed up out of order. I revert to a saved version of my file and it says the EFFECTS database must be rebuilt, then when I click Okay it gives the following error:

"Rebuild Failed on <myfile>_EFFECT, isam_err = 485, sysiocod = 5"

I know this post is multiple bugs but its the order of operations that I did. Now I have no way to retrieve all my work! I remember last year having a lot of problems with HLS crashing and was hoping it was more stable by this year. I have a pretty complicated sequence planned for this year I am hoping that when there is a Rebuild Failed I will be able to at least retrieve my previous file. Please Advise.

angus40
10-10-2013, 02:33 AM
try here

http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showthread.php?27335-Rebuild-error-HELP!&highlight=isam_err+485%2C+sysiocod

livinglightshows
10-10-2013, 09:09 AM
Admin mode worked, thanks.


try here

http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showthread.php?27335-Rebuild-error-HELP!&highlight=isam_err+485%2C+sysiocod

livinglightshows
10-10-2013, 09:10 AM
I have seen other people have the problem where when they open up the sequence the segments are greyed out and out of order, has there ever been a determination of what causes this?

JHinkle
10-10-2013, 09:46 AM
When I am in the preview mode if I click the preview checkbox to close the window it crashes the program. .

I can not duplicate this behavior. You will have to provide more information.

Joe

JHinkle
10-10-2013, 09:50 AM
Once the program is opened again all my segments are greyed out and messed up out of order.

I've never seen this behavior.

Please tell me how to create it. Note -- don't use the uncheck preview button - because that works just fine and does not produce the failure you state.

You might have something with your computer that is resulting in this behavior - please describe.

Joe

livinglightshows
10-10-2013, 10:37 AM
I am using VMWare Fusion on my Mac and running HLS on a windows 7 virtual machine, maybe that is the problem?

The way I am using segments is to represent different light patterns, these patterns involve sharing some of the same pixel channels. Once I have segments for each pattern I create a display group of all the segments. I then turn each segment on for one second one after another in my sequence, the goal is to flip through the patterns. When I opened up HLS after it shut down, my sequence is all out of order and the segments are grayed out

Am I using segments incorrectly here? I could just as easily use display groups to represent my patterns but then I have to switch what display group I am working on constantly. Using segments is just much quicker and cleaner.

By the way, these patterns are all custom line strings, not matrix or trees or anything (not sure that matters to address this issue)

I do need to feel confident though that HLS is not going to mess up my sequences though because the are complex and going to take a lot of time to build, I can't keep starting over. Hopefully that is enough info to help? I can send you my sequence file as well if you wish, just tell me how.

JHinkle
10-10-2013, 11:29 AM
HLS is not the issue.

You are asking to perform tasks which uses Segments and HLS is conveying the Segment information back to you as "gray effects".

So -- let me explain what a segment is and why they are turning gray.

A Segment can be considered a "virtual channel" that only exists in a Display Group. When the Display Group is drawn in the Grid - the Segment channel is created and effects are drawn on the Segment channel to reflect the effects contained in ALL of the channels associated with the Segment.

The purpose of using a Segment to to apply the SAME effect to multiple channels. As long as ALL of the channels in the Segment contain the same exact effect - it is displayed as the effect. If the Segment detects that ALL of the channels do NOT contain the same exact effect - it displays GRAY to tell you that differences exist.

You made the statement that you are using multiple Segments which contain many of the same channels. During the current edit session (until you display a different Display Group or you restart HLS which start a new Display Group) - all of the effects will appear as you created them.

When a new Display Group is shown - the Segments starts to compare every effect in every channel associated with the Segment and draws a "gray" effect to indicate that this span of time tics do NOT comply with the definition of a Segment - meaning all effects are exactly the same.

The GRAY effects do NOTHING to your sequence except tell you that the Segment has "Non-Segment" effects contained. The channels will Preview and Show as designed.

If you want to see the actual channels -- make a Display Group showing them.

I would NOT copy and paste Segments if the are not PURE segments. I would copy and past the channels instead - then you can achieve what you are attempting to accomplish.

Joe

livinglightshows
10-10-2013, 12:07 PM
Yes, I understand segments and how they work, the problem was that on restart using the same display group, the effects were incorrectly rendered on the sequence grid AND they were gray. I will mess with it some more when I get home so I can tell you how to reproduce it.

JHinkle
10-10-2013, 12:37 PM
I'm sorry - you say you understand but you don't!

Please reread what I stated on WHAT is shown on the Segment channel when HLS is started.

Your channels are fine -- The effects in the Segments channel are telling you something and DO NOT reflect the actual effects on the associated channels.

Again -- please reread.

Joe

livinglightshows
10-10-2013, 02:41 PM
Maybe I did not give enough detail. I understand that segments must be pure. The problem is the segments do not overlap one another, so for the time frame that the segment has the effect it is the only instance of those channels being used and they are the exact same for the duration of the time tics that the effect is used. For example, if ONLY segment A is lit from 1 to 2 seconds and no other segment is lit it would be impossible for the channels contained in that segment to be different from one another.

What you are saying makes sense if I have overlapping segments using common channels during a time frame, but that is not the case.

livinglightshows
10-10-2013, 02:50 PM
Okay, I just duplicated the problem I was talking about. I did the following:

1. Opened the file and showed the display group with all my segments.
2. Created a level effect for each segment for the duration of one second (no overlap!)
3. Closed the file
4. Re-opened the file

You can see how it messed up the sequence in the screenshots below. When it is re-opened the sequence is completely messed up. There is nothing lit until 9 seconds (hence why I started the screen shot at 9 seconds). You can see that from seconds 1 to 8 HLS completely removed the effects and then overlapped them after that. Does this help in determining what the problem is?

BEFORE:
20615

AFTER:
20616

P.S. When I changed the display group to show ALL channels after re-opening the file, I confirmed it was really messed up ruling out that the problem is just an issue of how the segment is rendered on the grid.

P.P.S. I just tried the same thing on my Windows machine (in case it was a Fusion problem on my MAC) but it did the exact same thing


Thanks.

angus40
10-10-2013, 03:09 PM
Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator.


your attachments links are bad

angus40
10-10-2013, 03:13 PM
attachment test >>

livinglightshows
10-10-2013, 03:18 PM
Odd, I uploaded the file using the image attachment. Let me try using the attachment manager instead.

JHinkle
10-10-2013, 03:24 PM
You keep saying the effects are messed up but you only show Segments --- not the channels that actually contain the effects.


Zip up the PCM and HLS files and post them in my upload site.

I will take a look.

Joe

livinglightshows
10-10-2013, 03:33 PM
Joe, where is your upload site?

Also, I did check it with all channels as well, I just did not screen cap it. Take a look at my "P.S." on the previous post, I edited it after the fact...

Matt

angus40
10-10-2013, 03:55 PM
it looks like the Channel #9 is getting set to start @ the .09 mark

livinglightshows
10-10-2013, 05:50 PM
What is Joe's upload site URL and what credentials do I use to authenticate so he can look at this problem?

JHinkle
10-12-2013, 01:34 PM
Please read my earlier posts on Segments because the sequence you sent me clearly shows you have a misunderstanding as I will outline below.

I was sent the sequence that was suppose to demonstrate the HLS had an issue handling Segments. I kept stating that "GRAY" effects were shown when ALL of the channels in the Segment were NOT exactly the same.

I hope that statement is straight forward and very clear because as I'll show below - the sequence violates that requirement - hence getting the GRAY effects as on INDICATION to the user that HE violated the requirement.

I drew two simple effects - one one Segment Digit 1 and one offset in time on Segment Digit 2.

20634

I saved the sequence and restarted HLS. In the restart - HLS has to decide HOW to CONVEY the content of the channels associated with the Segment to the user ... GRAY stating that NOT ALL CHANNELS CONTAIN EXACTLY THE SAME EFFECT!!!!!

20635

The results shown are what this posts implies is an issue. Notice that I did not draw effects in the other Segments yet they now show GRAY effects .... As I stated earlier ... NOT ALL CHANNELS CONTAIN EXACTLY THE SAME EFFECT!!!!!

This is the result of Segments sharing a channels with SOME Segments but NOT ALL --- see below

I then opened the Segment Manager to see what channels were assigned to Segment Digit 1 --- as you will see below --- channel 1 and all channels from 32 up to and including channel 61.

20636


I then used the Segment Manager to open and view the channels associated with Segment Digit 2. You should not that Segment Digit 2 contains SOME of the channels in Segment Digit 1 BUT NOT ALL OF THEM.

The two Segment SHARE the following channels:

Channel 1, channels 24 to 46, and channel 61. This PARTIAL sharing is what will result in the GRAY effects.

20637

I created a new Display Group - just showing the 2 Segments.

20638

Notice --- first effect of Segment Digit2 is GRAY because SOME - NOT ALL - of the channel effects are not exactly the same.

I created a new Display Group to show the actual channels that are associated with Segment Digit1

I can only show 5 pictures per post so I'll have to extend this discussion to the next post

JHinkle
10-12-2013, 01:44 PM
Continuing from above:


I created a new Display Group to show the actual channels that are associated with Segment Digit1

20639


No I select that Display Group to show on the Grid

20640


So --- going back to the definition of when HLS shows a GRAY effect ...

You can see the first block of effects ... all channels have EXACTLY the SAME effect - hence the effect is drawn.

The second effect is GRAY for Segments Digit1 -- because even though the USER did not draw in Segment Digit1 for the time frame --- there ARE effects in the Segment Digit1 channels -- AND ALL Channels do not have EXACTLY the SAME effects - hence it is GRAY.


HLS is working AS Designed. The user wants it to work differently than how it is designed.

Looking at what Idleup is trying to accomplish with Segments - the current design implementation does not fit his needs.

I'm going to ponder awhile since I may be able to put a Segment control inplace that would keep Segment processing as it is today or change to the following ....

If all channels contain the SAME effect - paint effect.

If all channels that contain an effect contain the SAME effect - paint the effect (new) ... this would do what Idleup wants.

If any channel contains an effect NOT the same as another channel - paint GRAY (new).

I will ponder and implement this change in the near future.

Joe

angus40
10-12-2013, 01:51 PM
An Age old adage , " if it ain't broke don't fix " :)

just my .02

livinglightshows
10-12-2013, 02:46 PM
Joe,

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Can you explain why when I opened it back up it changed the order of the effects to completely different time tics in the grid? If you notice my first screenshot from the original post I step through each segment starting from the beginning of the sequence, when closing and opening the first 9 seconds of the sequence are completely blank and then the effects start after 9 seconds are stacked instead of staggered.

JHinkle
10-12-2013, 03:17 PM
I am assuming your statement relates to the display of the various Segment channels.

As I've tried to convey in earlier posts - your effects - as laid on the actual channels - are as you laid them. The effects drawn on a Segment is drawn in an attempt to convey the number of time tics the effects on the physical channels are out of sync - so the Segment may show multiple GRAY effects merged into just one.

Again - the GRAY effects are NOT effects and do NOT depict the REAL effects on your channels --- they can be viewed as a Virtual Effect meant to convey out-of-sync information.

Joe

JHinkle
10-12-2013, 05:24 PM
idleup:

I have implemented a different possible strategy that would accomplish what I thought would help you.

When I displayed the results of my work -- Segment Digit1 also displayed the effects you placed on Segments Digit3 and Digit4.

I looked at the physical channels you assigned to Digit3 and Digit4 --- BOTH contain EVERY channel you identified for Digit1.

From a Segment Grid Display point of view - HLS can't tell Digit1 from Digit3 or Digit4 because 3 & 4 have Digit1 as a subset.

I like my new display method - see 15W out soon - but it does NOT provide you with what you are trying to accomplish.

I have thought of a "slight-of-hand" that you could use that would work perfectly.

Remember -- any channel that has Universe 0 assigned to it is NOT transmitted. They are what I consider WORK channels.

I suggest you ADD one addition channel to Segment Digit1 that is NOT in Digit3 or Digit4. THAT would then make Digit1 NOT and exact subset of 3 or 4 and my new Display process will work as you had wished it would.

You may need to add other WORK channels to your other Segments to keep them unique.

I'll post here when 15W is released so you can give it a try.

Joe

JHinkle
10-12-2013, 05:54 PM
I just released 15W.

idleup -- you will need to do the following.

1. Add 1 additional channel to Raw Channels for each Segment you are using. I would suggest calling them SegDummy or something like that. Keep them in Universe ZERO.

2. Go into Manage Segments and assign one of these new dummy channels to each or your Segments ... one unique to each one.

This does not correct for past sins ... so you will have to BLOW all of your previous effects away ... but as you lay new ones down --- given you did what I stated above --- your grid will display the Segment effects like I think you were looking for.

I was trying to keep the USER from making mistakes --- and if they did --- report those mistakes.

When you are dealing with Segments --- MISTAKES on the user part is EASY and will show really odd results. As an example --- all works fine in what you are doing as long as you don't OVERLAP. If you OVERLAP --- you might not lokie what you see. THAT will not be an HLS issue but a user issue since HLS can only do so much and itSegments presents the opportunity for so many user mistakes --- HLS just can't detect slap your hands on all of them.

Thanks for showing what you were try to do. I suspect other users may try the same thing --- that is why I decided to change HLS's behavior.

Good luck.

Joe

JHinkle
10-12-2013, 09:23 PM
Actually my threats of gloom and doom for overlapping Segments appears to be ill founded.

I just did some testing and the Segment channel always displayed properly.

I like this latest change.

Joe

livinglightshows
10-13-2013, 01:06 AM
Thanks Joe!


Actually my threats of gloom and doom for overlapping Segments appears to be ill founded.

I just did some testing and the Segment channel always displayed properly.

I like this latest change.

Joe