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View Full Version : Grinch meets Olsen 595. Indicator leds, home etch file.



Vadoo
02-06-2008, 10:27 PM
I have redesigned the Grinch to include led channel indicator lights in this file. I have already built and tested the board and it works geat. Ya some of the traces are a little close, and that is a little bit of a pain, but I designed it basicaly the same as the Olsen 595 which has the same close tollerance(I will definitely use a smaller tip soldering iron next time I solder this board!). I set it up to be powered from the pc power supply(no power connections are on the board).
Although the original idea behind the Grinch was to make it as cheap as possible, I believe even with the added cost of the leds, the Grinch still has a lot of advantag over the 595(still less cost, fewer components). I thought it would be nice to have an option to combine the best parts of both boards. Even if you dont want to spend the extra money right now on the leds, you can easily run it without them now and add them later on:)

kmc123
02-06-2008, 10:40 PM
Way to go!

RavingLunatic
02-07-2008, 10:27 AM
I wonder if wjohn can be talked into finding out how much more a Grinch Plus (w/on-board LED provisions) PCB would cost versus the current Grinch PCB.

If it only add a couple $ to the cost then maybe it would a good option to have. Those wanting to keep costs down could always not install the LEDs.


Just a thought......

wjohn
02-08-2008, 02:35 AM
i'll have a look at what could be done, however is Brian doing a new 595 board?

klanger
02-08-2008, 06:42 AM
i'll have a look at what could be done, however is Brian doing a new 595 board?


I dont think so, just a coop for it.

Wayne J
02-08-2008, 09:47 AM
I had started on a LED Grinch some time back, but never finished it, because I didn't think there would be a demand for it.

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/8576/grinchledlk5.th.jpg (http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=grinchledlk5.jpg)


Really though, if one wants LED on their controller, then the 595 board would be the way to go.

docwakins
02-08-2008, 02:59 PM
Not an expert - but a Grinch with indicators? Isnt that a complete 360 from the actual theory and purpose of the Grinch?

KISS "Keep it Small and Simple" -

isnt a grinch with LED indicators already called the 595?


I vote to call this new PCB the Anti-Grinch <g>

ppohlman
02-08-2008, 03:25 PM
I was always told that K.I.S.S. stood for "Keep It Simple, Stupid"

P. Short
02-08-2008, 04:21 PM
My 2 cents...

1) It's getting pretty late to have any changed board ready for the big coop buy (although nobody asked me, I personally think that having smaller, faster, more frequent coops might be better).

2) If there is going to be a new board, I would strongly encourage people to make provisions for a 74HC04/HCT04/HC14/HCT14 chip to be added to the front end to make it easier to deal with parallel ports that have a low-voltage data signal output.

3) If there is going to be a new board, I think that adding an on-board regulator would be a good idea. If the change above was incorporated, I would use a 7805 regulator. Otherwise, a LM217/317 regulator would be a good idea (so that the voltage to the chips can be easily adjusted). In either case, the usual input and output caps and diodes from the data sheets should be added as well. It's an open issue in my mind as to whether an on-board transformer should be included.

4) If demand warrants, the LEDs can be added as well. If so, the power supply components listed above may need to be adjusted.

Although some of these items increase the complexity of the board, they can simplify the use of board once it has been assembled.

--

Phil

Wayne J
02-08-2008, 04:31 PM
All very good points Phil. I think it was a conversation with you on some of those points, is why I never finished the board. ;)

RavingLunatic
02-08-2008, 04:46 PM
2) If there is going to be a new board, I would strongly encourage people to make provisions for a 74HC04/HCT04/HC14/HCT14 chip to be added to the front end to make it easier to deal with parallel ports that have a low-voltage data signal output.



How about provisions for pull-up resistors on the 3 data lines instead? That way if you find you don't have a problem you don't install the resistors but if you need them you do. With the chip you would be committed to using it no matter what.

P. Short
02-08-2008, 04:53 PM
Adding resistors haven't been shown to help in many situations, and the chip isn't expensive.

--

Phil

Vadoo
02-08-2008, 07:24 PM
Not an expert - but a Grinch with indicators? Isnt that a complete 360 from the actual theory and purpose of the Grinch?

KISS "Keep it Small and Simple" -

isnt a grinch with LED indicators already called the 595?


I vote to call this new PCB the Anti-Grinch <g>

If you compaire the 595 to this "Grinch Plus" you see it is much more simple with considerably fewer parts , resulting in less cost, less board space, less build time, and a much more "simple" design without sacrificing what many seem to consider a good feature, the channel indicator leds. Those were my reasonings for building this board and throwing it out as a suggestion for a 595 and Grinch update/replacement? Upgrade in the sense that it has only 4 chips total to do the work of 16 as with the 595. Repalcement(?) since it sacrifices very little of the simplicity of the Grinch, and offers a nice option to build into it now, or later.

Vadoo
02-08-2008, 08:01 PM
1) It's getting pretty late to have any changed board ready for the big coop buy (although nobody asked me, I personally think that having smaller, faster, more frequent coops might be better).Phil
Ya I agree but my understanding is that the bigger orders help make the boards cheaper for everyone. How big of a differance would it be on cost if we did have more frequent smaller coops?


2) If there is going to be a new board, I would strongly encourage people to make provisions for a 74HC04/HCT04/HC14/HCT14 chip to be added to the front end to make it easier to deal with parallel ports that have a low-voltage data signal output.Phil
I had no problems with power. I dont know how often people have this problem but from what I understand its not a lot. Would it be possible to design a small inline board(between pc and controller) that could offer a fix for the people who do have these problems while keeping the board simple for everyone else?

dnesci
02-08-2008, 08:13 PM
I understand the desire for the indicators. I too wanted them, but as the Grinch is hidden in a case, on board indicators would do me no good. My appraoch, is I'm building and indcator board to display with my patch panel. This also, allowed me to use a separate power supply for the LEDs all connected through a common buss. I'm not yet done with the indicator board, but rather than redisign the Grinch, there are other alternatives to indicator lights. I like the simplicity of the Grinch and the low cost. Whistes and bells are all specific to the user.

That's my 2 cents. I'm not adverse to any changes, I just don't see a need for the board to be all things to all people.

Vadoo
02-08-2008, 08:36 PM
I understand the desire for the indicators. I too wanted them, but as the Grinch is hidden in a case, on board indicators would do me no good. My appraoch, is I'm building and indcator board to display with my patch panel.
I would love to see a picture of that. The only problem i see, if you plan to do what i think, is all of the cables involved, from controller to led board.

I actually started and finished a completely differnt design before i had even finished testing this one for that reason. I realised i eventually would like to have a nice enclosure setup. I came up with this from radio shack. Model: 270-1809
I decided to make the simplest board possible, very easily home etchable, with only 32 channels so i could get all inputs and outputs on one side and stack them long ways in the enclosure. I would cut spots in the lid for the RJ's to stick out. I could fit 6 in all together giving me the option to add 32 channels at a time as my display grew till i had a full 192 channel enclosure, then start another one.

P. Short
02-08-2008, 09:53 PM
Ya I agree but my understanding is that the bigger orders help make the boards cheaper for everyone. How big of a differance would it be on cost if we did have more frequent smaller coops?

This is way off-topic, but it becomes a problem if the coop becomes so huge that it ends up being a once-per-year event. That's fine if you are there for the coop and are prepared to make an order. It's not so great for those people who find out about this site at the wrong time of the year, or don't have your plans in place at the right time. At the moment this is more a problem for parts than for boards, since wjohn is stocking a number of different boards.

But this is just my 2 cents. It doesn't affect me that much because most of my designs are a bit different from the mainstream, so the coops wouldn't help me that much anyway.

--

Phil

dnesci
02-09-2008, 10:57 AM
Vadoo

Yes there are a lot of cableing (wiring), but I'm not going from the board to the LEDs, I'm going form the RJ45 patch panel to the LEDs. They are short runs of less than 8 inches. The board is intact.

Now that we're talking about it, I guess I wont work on SSRs today but work on the LED panel.

Vadoo
02-09-2008, 12:56 PM
I had thought about putting an IDE cable connection on the board(maybe two? I'm not sure what sizes they come in other then 40 conductor?) and using that for an LED output, but quickly decided it would be nearly imposibly to make it work on a singly sided board(maybe even a doulbe sided board) But the idea sounded neat:)

grages
02-13-2008, 06:59 PM
This is way off-topic, but it becomes a problem if the coop becomes so huge that it ends up being a once-per-year event. That's fine if you are there for the coop and are prepared to make an order. It's not so great for those people who find out about this site at the wrong time of the year, or don't have your plans in place at the right time. At the moment this is more a problem for parts than for boards, since wjohn is stocking a number of different boards.

But this is just my 2 cents. It doesn't affect me that much because most of my designs are a bit different from the mainstream, so the coops wouldn't help me that much anyway.

--

Phil

We have been very lucky that wjohn has stocked so many boards, and that they are almost at coop prices. Otherwise it would be a lot harder.

Shawn

Rivenheart
02-19-2008, 03:24 PM
I had thought about putting an IDE cable connection on the board(maybe two? I'm not sure what sizes they come in other then 40 conductor?) and using that for an LED output, but quickly decided it would be nearly imposibly to make it work on a singly sided board(maybe even a doulbe sided board) But the idea sounded neat:)

You could use 80 pin SCSI2 Cabling

ben
03-09-2008, 03:28 PM
here's my version. I am making my own without RJ45 jacks to use with a patch panel. I like the LEDS for this application looks cool!

Ben

Vadoo
03-09-2008, 07:26 PM
here's my version. I am making my own without RJ45 jacks to use with a patch panel. I like the LEDS for this application looks cool!

Ben

I think you may want to move some things around a little. Some of the traces are very close or touching. Bottom right resistor pak and bottom right led to ic trace for example.

ben
03-09-2008, 09:55 PM
I didn't realize how to turn layers off. After I did that I can see how the traces were.

Here is the revised version. I bought some iron on and peel off resist from Electronics Express. I'll see how well it goes.

Ben

Macrosill
03-10-2008, 10:00 AM
Also there are some traces going through the rj45 mounting holes on the right side.

You are going to attempt to home etch that board? Its not going to work. You have too many traces on 2 different payers. You have top layer traces terminating under the rj45s. They can not be soldered from underneath. I would suggest you do some re-designing or send the board out to be made at a pcb supplier.

ben
03-10-2008, 05:25 PM
Also there are some traces going through the rj45 mounting holes on the right side.

You are going to attempt to home etch that board? Its not going to work. You have too many traces on 2 different payers. You have top layer traces terminating under the rj45s. They can not be soldered from underneath. I would suggest you do some re-designing or send the board out to be made at a pcb supplier.

I do need to redo it. Like I said, it was hard when I was trying to design upper and lower parts. Now that I can turn layers off I will redo to make it better and smaller. Also, I am just soldering wires not using jacks (in my setup)

Ben

VIDGuide
06-07-2008, 10:54 PM
I have redesigned the Grinch to include led channel indicator lights in this file. I have already built and tested the board and it works geat. Ya some of the traces are a little close, and that is a little bit of a pain, but I designed it basicaly the same as the Olsen 595 which has the same close tollerance(I will definitely use a smaller tip soldering iron next time I solder this board!). I set it up to be powered from the pc power supply(no power connections are on the board).
Although the original idea behind the Grinch was to make it as cheap as possible, I believe even with the added cost of the leds, the Grinch still has a lot of advantag over the 595(still less cost, fewer components). I thought it would be nice to have an option to combine the best parts of both boards. Even if you dont want to spend the extra money right now on the leds, you can easily run it without them now and add them later on:)

This is a fantastic looking board, and i appreciate the work you've put into this! I'm curious, just to double check, the red lines are soldered in jumpers, correct? Otherwise, this looks great! Thanks for the work guys, keep it up! :)

Vadoo
08-29-2008, 07:43 PM
[QUOTE=VIDGuide;31106]I'm curious, just to double check, the red lines are soldered in jumpers, correct?QUOTE]

Yes.