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View Full Version : I think I broke HLS.....



Lionking_Tx
12-16-2012, 02:02 AM
Joe,

HLS was just talking to me and said you should add something in the database :)

Seriously - I am still trying to import Nutcracker effects and already managed to get a few into my Megatree display workgroup.
However, so more effects I import, so slower HLS got ...it dragged my PC down to almost a stop - Haven't timed it, but the import of the last 39sec/1344 pixel segment bombed after around 40min.....

Guess I blew the size of the database with mymega tree (and I haven't even started on the roof grid) - Here is what HLS told me to tell you.....

17060 17061

JHinkle
12-16-2012, 02:59 AM
You are correct.

The current implementation has a limit of 15,618,062 effects.

I had planned on people dropping Nutcracker effects onto a PixelPlane - not into actual channels.

You guys have proved my plan wrong.

Better to break it now or latter.

The current limit is due to double-word (4 byte) file off-set positioning.

You have demonstrated - that with usage of pixels - there is going to be a huge file offset requirement (8 byte offset).

I will have to add a conversion process.

Thanks for breaking it now.

Joe

angus40
12-16-2012, 03:33 AM
For elements requiring 2 universes of channels or more , i dont understant the use of massive rgb channels counts other that to set them to universe 0 and to drop pixel plane or nutcracker effects onto for customizing then saving them back as pixel plane effect .

I just would never want to have to look at this 15,618,062 on the grid . it would make one go blind and crazy trying to edit it .


using the pixel plane for its intent and purpose works awesome .

JHinkle
12-16-2012, 11:20 AM
Joe,

HLS was just talking to me and said you should add something in the database :)

Seriously - I am still trying to import Nutcracker effects and already managed to get a few into my Megatree display workgroup.
However, so more effects I import, so slower HLS got ...it dragged my PC down to almost a stop - Haven't timed it, but the import of the last 39sec/1344 pixel segment bombed after around 40min.....

Guess I blew the size of the database with mymega tree (and I haven't even started on the roof grid) - Here is what HLS told me to tell you.....

17060 17061

You are using HLS in a way it want not designed for.

The way to use Nutcracker effects is to place them onto a PixelPlane.

If you have a strong reason for NOT using a PixelPlane (besides being able to see the effect in Preview) - Please share.

Please re-evaluate your direction.

You can continue down this path - I will be extending the database capability as stated in an earlier post - but I'm afraid that the chore HLS must do on the data during OPEN and SAVE will become way too SLOW for you. And I mean SLOW!!!!


Thanks.

Joe

Lionking_Tx
12-16-2012, 11:45 AM
@Angus40
I think it's a thing of personal preference.
I like to visualize my effects and also do both - Nutcracker effects and "old fashioned" effects.
One major point for me is that the preview does not work with the pixel plane and I live and die by the preview.

Another point that speaks for the grid (at least for me) - I would never had caught an import problem on the pixel plane where pixels got shifted during the import. (maybe Joe knows this...It actually works fine if I set affinity to only one CPU core, or run HLS as Administrator ?)

I have not worked with the pixel plane at all, but can you do modifications there ? I mean import a nutcracker effect and then let's say cut 3 cells from the end because it didn't quite fit the song ?
As far as I understand (and correct me if I am wrong) it's an "either or" - if you convert channels to a pixel plane, you can't really work on them anymore.

Again...all this is a personal preference - I just like to see what things look like without running it on a display and THEN realizing that my ideas don't work at all.

@Joe,
You think you can extend the size, or do I have to go the pixel plane route in order to get my song done for Christmas ?
Another question I would have, do you store the individual channel groups in arrays, or everything together ? I ask, because I probably will blow the size again if everything is in just one array/table (or whatever).
The Mega Tree has "only" 8 universes - I have another 19 to fill (OK, one is not really full - it's only used for the older controllers).

..oh yeah...one more before I go (said that before :) ) - Joe, do you handle the whole channel in the grid view, or only the individual cells ?
OK, let me clarify the question..... I drop a Nutcracker effect on the grid and see it's longer than I planned, so I delete a fef cells from the end. With just one effect, it works OK, but with every effect I add, the work on individual cells takes longer and longer.
For example the effect I dropped before I broke the Database with another one was 200ms to long (using 50ms segments), so I stripped 4 cells from the end (for 1344 channels/pixels) - this operation took around 20 to 30 min. I have a CPU meter running and the PC was only using around 24% (with *a lot* of other things running). Also the HD didn't really sho a lot of activity, so I don't think HLS was constantly readind/writing to the DB. I have 16GB memory (which was only used around 40%), so that couldn't have explained the lockup of HLS either. Any ideas ?

jrock64
12-16-2012, 11:49 AM
Those darn users.

They always try to do things you never intended or even thought of.:lol:

A great program in less than one year.
Can not wait to see what it becomes in another 6 months.

Joel

Lionking_Tx
12-16-2012, 11:53 AM
Those darn users.

They always try to do things you never intended or even thought of.:lol:

Joel

Lol.... When I used to write programs (Atari 8bit and ST age...yes, I'm old) I remember having a friend test something and the first thing he did, he crashed the program - I never thought anyone would use a key combination like that, but he proved me wrong :cwaniak:

I think I will grab a quick breakfast at Ihop and then look into this darn pixel plane

jrock64
12-16-2012, 11:56 AM
Lionking

Set your ending tic before you drop the effect.
It will be truncated to that length.

Joel

JHinkle
12-16-2012, 12:43 PM
LionKing_TX:

I figured you were dropping them so you could edit and see them in Preview - but please reconsider.

Once you drop onto a PixelPlane - you can shorten it just like shortening any other effect --- make the cell smaller - less than 1 sec.

Every thing you are trying or asking - Angus40 was beating me up last April on.

Angus40 has been working with PixelPlanes and they do everything you want EXCEPT PREVIEW ... I KNOW!!!!

For NOW - Please use PixelPlane.

Henedce placed on video on the site a month or two ago where he went from no sequence to a fully blinking MegaTree in less than 30 minutes using PixelPlane.

Joe

Lionking_Tx
12-16-2012, 01:45 PM
LionKing_TX:

I figured you were dropping them so you could edit and see them in Preview - but please reconsider.

Once you drop onto a PixelPlane - you can shorten it just like shortening any other effect --- make the cell smaller - less than 1 sec.

Every thing you are trying or asking - Angus40 was beating me up last April on.

Angus40 has been working with PixelPlanes and they do everything you want EXCEPT PREVIEW ... I KNOW!!!!

For NOW - Please use PixelPlane.

Henedce placed on video on the site a month or two ago where he went from no sequence to a fully blinking MegaTree in less than 30 minutes using PixelPlane.

Joe

Joe,
The main reason beside the preview was the shortening of effects, but I will try the pixel plane if you can shorten effects there too.
I know, I jumped on HLS pretty late, but until 11.59 I was still undecided which program I should dive in.

@Joel:
Thanks for the hint, but the end tic doesn't quite work for me.
My eyes are way faster than my ears, so more than once I have seen that the beat track I created does not completely match the output (which I catch by using the preview).
That's why I "dump" effects on the grid and then adjust the lengh according to what I see in the preview.

For Christmas Canon Rock I tried it so many times now, that I already dream about the correct time slots :)

Let me play a bit with the pixel plane......

Lionking_Tx
12-16-2012, 02:12 PM
Pixel Plane gives me an error that I drop more channels (1344) than available (1 ???).
- Create pixel plane channel in raw channels
- assign pixel plane channel to channel group
- select channel group and can't drop

hmmm...thinking about it...where is the link between the "panel channel" and the channels it represents ? Guess I'm missing a step, so back to rtfm

Lionking_Tx
12-16-2012, 03:15 PM
OK, I played around with The pixel plane a bit more and I think I understand the concept now...however, while making it much easier, I don't like the concept (I know, it's personal).

I was missing the link between the virtual pixel plane channel and the physical output channel, until I realized the channels contained in the virtual channel have to be assigned direct to the universe (I thought they were handled like another segment channel or something).

Well, this pretty much breaks my whole concept of using segments (e.g. I have all pixels in one string combined as a segment "String 1" and so on).
I had a hard time understanding why it was an "either or", but now I understand why you can't use the channels individually anymore once decided for the pixel plane.
I guess for now I have to make a decision per sequence whether I want to use the grid, or just have a queue based sequence for the larger pixel elements.

JHinkle
12-16-2012, 10:46 PM
Version 10P is now implemented using a huge database model.

Under the File menu - there is a new capability to REMOVE unused effects from your database.

HLS does not delete effects when you remove them from the sequence - so they add to you size.

This process will clean them out.

Joe

Lionking_Tx
12-16-2012, 11:01 PM
Thanks a lot Joe

I forgot to ask you about it....I suspected it when I reached the limit, went back to an earlier save and still got the error.
Recovered a backup from before starting imports and everything was fine :)

Lionking_Tx
12-17-2012, 01:17 AM
Despite converting the tree and roof grid to pixel planes HLS was getting a bit slow again, so I decided to stop and upgrade to 10P.
...only had 2.5 million elements to convert, so I still had some buffer :)

Thanks again Joe

angus40
12-17-2012, 02:54 AM
pixel plane effects can be saved and droped on rgb channels and vise versa as you like .

Jos'e creative thinking in designing the pixel plane allows ez alignment to the beat track and visual control in the editor .

My display is over 21 universes , not all channels are used but combine this with the pixel plane and keeping order in the editor is very simplistic.

The use of rgb channels as you stated is personel preference I agree and I do use them for elements with less than 1 universe of channels.

However I did create a pixel plane that controls 2 windows for ez sequencing .

The sidewalk in front of my house is jammed packed with onlookers every evening now , what a treat to here the soud effects ffrom the crowds...