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corytcline
10-09-2012, 06:52 AM
I have a fog machine that works like any other (a hand held trigger you have to wait for it to get warmed up then press button when ready) I want to figure out how to run the fog machine from a channel off of my renardss 24.
Is there a way to cut into the trigger box and run the renard channel to it so that when I turn the channel on its like pressing the button. I hope that made some sense.

Has anyone done this, that could give me some advise?
I will take pics of the fog machine trigger and post later today.

Keebler
10-09-2012, 07:11 AM
i HAVE done this (i used an SSRez though)
the principals are the same though.

let me look for my notes on it.

corytcline
10-09-2012, 07:58 AM
That would be great Keebler thanks!

LightUp
10-09-2012, 09:01 AM
A relay contact would be my first try. Your REN SSR can turn on the relay.

corytcline
10-09-2012, 11:26 AM
Can I not sequence the relay into my sequence? I was thinking set it off once every few minutes. I'm going to power the fog machine from a standard outlet. All I want the renard to power is the switch to let the fog out.

LightUp
10-09-2012, 12:29 PM
Yes, you should be able to turn the SSR ON and OFF as per your sequence. The sequencer doesn't know what is on the other end of your SSR - a LED, lamp, relay, motor, etc.

BuzzKill
10-09-2012, 12:51 PM
Use the SSR to run a mechanical relay. For the fog machine you need a pair of dry contacts. You are simply going to replace the button in the hand remote with the normally open side of a relay. You can do 2 things. You can run a relay with a 5v coil right off a SSR channel and make sure you add a "snubber" diode across your coil leads to prevent spikes back into your ssr. Or, just get a 120v coil relay and run it like you would any other 120v channel. Make sure you are setting the channel as On/Off and not trying to dim it (obviously). My suggestion is to just use the 120 volt mechanical relay. It is an easy way to give yourself dry contacts to do all sorts of things like power other low voltage systems like air solenoids, X10 components, or props from the halloween store with the little push buttons.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12466795 as a 120v coil
Or
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12477120 as a 5v coil

If going the 5v route you need one of these:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062587
You add it across the coil leads of the relay. The white stripe of the diode should be on the positive side of the relay.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-JrM7nJaKl4Y/UFJ7bxCiBOI/AAAAAAAAALE/VhMXoWO1r_Q/s1600/fly-back.png (See the left hand image)

kingofkya
10-09-2012, 03:37 PM
Keep it simple. There is a small pump inside that runs off mains voltage. Just tap onto its lines. However you wont get the heat up delay so be consious of that.

corytcline
10-09-2012, 06:48 PM
Keep it simple. There is a small pump inside that runs off mains voltage. Just tap onto its lines. However you wont get the heat up delay so be consious of that.

Now that's what I was hoping sombody would say. It's how I was planning to try anyhow. But today I found a fog machine timer thing at the Halloween store for 16 dollars. Don't have to cut anything or learn how to build an ssr or anything so for simplicity going to go that route. It sets the delay to activate and the duration time to spray the fog.

I do thank everyone for their suggestions you guys never fail to help out!

kingofkya
10-09-2012, 07:05 PM
I am not sure how the little remote works but it may be simper than I thought. you might be able to just grab a standard IEC cable(if your's uses that for remote like mine does) and put a relay across it.i think it may be something like this

1)ac voltage 2) pump and the light and switch are attached in parallel. so when you push switch you lower the resistance and trigger the pump.


or the switch is attached so the normaly closed is attached to light and normaly open attached to light.


Ether way crack it open. Relays can cost as little as a $2-5bucks, hell the timer might have one it it.
Also try holding the switch down then you can probe out what pins the relay should be connected to.

BuzzKill
10-09-2012, 07:19 PM
"Simple" is relative. To throw a relay on an SSR and tap into the push button for a fog machine is a 10-15 minute thing for me (but it wasn't the first time I did it). It sounds complicated in a forum thread, but is really quite simplistic in the execution. For somebody that doesn't know that much about relays, or SSRs, etc, it could take a half day on Google to find the schematic needed. And even after all that they could still end up touching the wrong wire and turning their fog machine or REN controller into slag. I guess if you are on these forums, we assume that you are more towards the "enlightened" side, and can take some creative input, add some of your own brain juice, and come out with a working solution. But...

Failure is always an option.
And my new favorite... "Writing it down" is the difference between science, and screwing around.

Good luck!

RD

corytcline
10-09-2012, 08:16 PM
"Simple" is relative. To throw a relay on an SSR and tap into the push button for a fog machine is a 10-15 minute thing for me (but it wasn't the first time I did it). It sounds complicated in a forum thread, but is really quite simplistic in the execution. For somebody that doesn't know that much about relays, or SSRs, etc, it could take a half day on Google to find the schematic needed. And even after all that they could still end up touching the wrong wire and turning their fog machine or REN controller into slag. I guess if you are on these forums, we assume that you are more towards the "enlightened" side, and can take some creative input, add some of your own brain juice, and come out with a working solution. But...

Failure is always an option.
And my new favorite... "Writing it down" is the difference between science, and screwing around.

Good luck!

RD

I'm assuming I could figure out an ssr. I was just thinking I could use the two wires from the renard channel and somehow tie into the trigger box with them and switch it on via turning that channel on. Not having to build or buy anything. I honestly thought ssr's were not needed with the renardss to do such things. I will be the first to tell you that I don't know much. So I could always be wrong that's why I'm here asking for advise (I know I don't know but I'm willing to learn).

I know I said I was planning to just cut the wires and give it a go but I also was figuring your way with the ssr was the correct way to go about it. I also liked the way you included links to radio shack parts(almost like you knew there was one close to me).

I did however find a solution that was specifically made for the intended job. Plugs in right were the previous trigger did and I believe will work better than trying to sequence it myself. Just a dial for time and one for duration pretty simple.

Hope I did nothing to offend you in any way.

Call me old fashion or whatever but I still "write things down" I can loose files on the computer if I'm not carefull but there's nothing like my handy dandy notebook.

Thanks again for your comments and advise it was not ignored!

BuzzKill
10-09-2012, 08:32 PM
I'm assuming I could figure out an ssr.

Ah-Ha! Here is the cool part. A channel on a REN24 is an SSR, it is just already on the controller. So nothing to figure out, it is already there. So, if you just drive a relay coil from the REN channel, that will give you your dry contacts to "replace" the button on the fog machine timer. There is a manual button on the timer (if I recall) that you could still tap into. That is the beauty of just having dry contacts off the relay. So the fog timer could be running on a delay for "ambient" fog that puffs once in a while and you can still add it to a channel in the sequence. Have fun with it! And if it is not working out, then forget about it and mess with it later if you want. Conceptually you have a switch (ssr), driving a switch (relay), controlling a switch (button on fog timer). So it is a bit of a mind trip, but it does work! I will dig mine out tonight and shoot a picture.

And you can't offend me. That would require that I have 1) thin skin, and 2) the intelligence to know I am being offended. :w00t:

corytcline
10-09-2012, 08:43 PM
Ah-Ha! Here is the cool part. A channel on a REN24 is an SSR,

That what I was thinking and also why I was getting confused with all the ssr stuff.
So you said an ssr(my ren channel)controlling a relay switch controlling the trigger switch. Just curious why so many stops, can you explain why it won't work channel to trigger without the relay? Like I said just curious not doubting you.
Pics would probaly do me wonders!

budude
10-09-2012, 08:51 PM
This question comes up every year about this time - see some of the older posts:
http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showthread.php?19710-Fog-Machines
http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showthread.php?17084-Controlling-a-fog-machine
http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showthread.php?4344-Fog-machine-trigger
http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showthread.php?11805-Non-DMX-Fogger-in-a-Light-Show
http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showthread.php?8150-Fogger-Relay-and-LOR-not-responding

and so on...

corytcline
10-09-2012, 09:03 PM
Thanks! I always forget about searching the forums. Looks like I got some reading to do.

BuzzKill
10-09-2012, 11:34 PM
Just curious why so many stops, can you explain why it won't work channel to trigger without the relay? Like I said just curious not doubting you.

You need dry contacts (no power). You have 120 volts across your SSR (REN channel) which could be a bad thing when you inject that into the fog machine. So the SSR activates the coil on the relay which then gives you dry contacts (normally open/closed) that you put in line with the fog machine button. The relay then acts like a simple switch that you can control from your sequence.

corytcline
10-13-2012, 02:10 AM
Thanks for the explanation.

Here is what I have so far for my display got a lot of work still yet to do.
15692
15693
15694
15695
15696


There will still be one more tunnel to finish going around the dog pen. This is my first year to put a few turn in it so its been a learning experience. Hope you enjoy I accept all suggestions or comments. More to come!

corytcline
10-13-2012, 02:14 AM
15697

Add a wig and a cape

15698

I put this together with three 10' sections of 1/2" PVC then screwed two 1x4's to the back for support. 7 channels total two purple 5 orange. I have a short video to come.

15699