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JHinkle
10-02-2012, 02:54 PM
I will try to put out a Video later tonight on this subject because it is quite detailed in nature.

A Segment Channel is a single channel that appears in the sequence editor but manipulates multiple channels in the background.

As an example - lets say you are making an arch using pixels and you want to break the arch into 7 segments where the pixels making up a segment are sequenced the same.

HLS will now allow you to create a Segment and assign multiple channels to that segment. Now - instead of many channels appearing in the sequence editor - only one will appear - the Segment Channel.

Any effect you place, remove, move, or re-size on the Segment Channel will be automatically applies to all of the channels assigned it it.

There is one limitation when using a Segment Channel: A channel can not be assigned to a "Display Group" and to a "Segment Channel" at the same time.

You either edit the individual channel or have it edited as part of a Segment Channel - not both.

I have posted in other threads my concern about collapsing multiple channels into one - which is what a Segment Channel does. That concern was about effects on channels that were not "In Sync" with all of the other effects on the other channels. I resolved this by identifying those areas where no sync occurs and making them un-editable .


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Under the "Manage Channels" menu

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Create a Segment Channel with the "Manage Segment Channel" menu selection. ... the the Channel a name so you know its a SEGMENT

Make sure the channels you are selection are NOT part of any Display Group.

Go into the "Select Channels and Assign to Display Group" menu selection and create/modify a group to contain your newly created Segment Channel.

Lastly - "Select Display Group to Work" menu selection - your channels will now appear in the editor.

Treat the Segment channel just as would any other channel.

Hint: CTRL B does a Display Toggle --- normal mode has the channels associated with the Segment hidden - the other mode shows them.

Enjoy.

Joe

boarder3
10-02-2012, 03:32 PM
Hey this is what ive been asking for if im reading this right if so thanks

kingofkya
10-02-2012, 03:35 PM
You know i was thinking about asking for this:) this will be handy come december when channles get added that werent in the orginal plan. Just use 2 other channles as data for the new ones. Awsome as ussual joe thanks

rfallatt
10-02-2012, 04:24 PM
There is one limitation when using a Segment Channel: A channel can not be assigned to a "Display Group" and to a "Segment Channel" at the same time.
Joe

Joe,
Not quite sure what you mean by the above statement.

Can you address the implications when you make the video?

angus40
10-02-2012, 04:56 PM
this is excellent Joe , thank you for another time saving tool .

Segmented channels need to be ungrouped as Joe stated in the op .

this means the channels you will select to be in the segment - single grid channel appearance cannot be in any work group as you will not be able to set them.


steps to get this working ,
1 open sequence as usual goto manage channels and select segment you will get a dialogue similar to workgroup

select your channels to apply to the segment and give it a name then save it .

2 goto manage channels and select the group to work on now you will see a single channel in the grid similar to pixel plane .

don't for get to set the channels to work by putting check mark in the appropriate box................. as I did lol

Cheers

budude
10-02-2012, 05:16 PM
This is a similar idea as in Vixen 3 - in fact it's probably the best part of it - the ability to bundle objects under another top-level object. Vixen 3 went a bit further by allowing you to bundle any channel into any object as well as any object into another object. There was also no limit to how many times a channel or object could be part of another object. I also like the feature in LOR also - this makes it much easier to view your sequence since you could expand/contract any set of channel groups.

JHinkle
10-02-2012, 05:18 PM
I'm revising the software ....

You can now have a channels that is in a Display Group AND part of a Segment that is also in the Display Group.

Other than that - a channel can appear anywhere.

Joe

JHinkle
10-02-2012, 08:08 PM
Please hold off attempting to use Segments in production at this time.

I tested to one boundary and all was well.

In testing to another - I have found an issue - I am currently working on it.

Play as you like ... just don't play with something you want to save at this time.

Thanks.

Joe

boarder3
10-02-2012, 08:12 PM
if i have a pixel string work group that i use i would have to remove that from a group in order to use? I usually create multiple groups with one arch and one with all. With this i wont be able to do that??

angus40
10-02-2012, 08:29 PM
if i have a pixel string work group that i use i would have to remove that from a group in order to use? I usually create multiple groups with one arch and one with all. With this i wont be able to do that??


Good to hear you use the term usually. Habits are hard to break , but it shows your comfortable using hls.

I do something similar with creating sequences for an 8 universe mega tree. I set 1 universe to a work group to navigate the grid quickly , however the addition of the end and home key might change my habits .

cheers

boarder3
10-02-2012, 08:38 PM
I must be doing it wrong ill wait for the video to come out to show how to do. The only thing i could see a problem if channels cant be in a group at the same time is this. as a group of one i can lets say take my arch and shoot it across from on end to the other. And if i can have both channels cant be in both segment and regular groups we will have a problem achieving that. And thats big . Unless im misinterpreting what and how to do this.

angus40
10-02-2012, 08:54 PM
say you have a seven segment arch with 10 pixels in each = 70 rgb channels on the grid, this reduces it to 7 grid channels .

this is the way that i understand how it works. correct me if wrong.

i had thought this was for the entire arch but it is termed segment so i take it to mean each segment is collapsable to 1 channel for easy sequencing ang grid navigation.

I cannot see discrete control within the segment though as i do not believe that is Joe's intent . this is for elements that require grouping such as an arch or fire stick etc.

JHinkle
10-02-2012, 08:57 PM
Version 6R is released.

Fixed my boundary condition ... when toggled in expanded mode and more than one segment displayed - it showed improperly on the grid.

Now to make a video.

By the way - the only limitation is that a channel can only be in ONE Segment. That channel can also appear in multiple Display Groups.

Joe


Joe

angus40
10-02-2012, 08:59 PM
In a word " wicked "

Thanks Joe

boarder3
10-02-2012, 09:22 PM
i added an effect to segment and went back to see it under old work group and the effect is now written across all channels. should it be seen or is it hidden ? only time i see it is under segment group

JHinkle
10-02-2012, 10:33 PM
i added an effect to segment and went back to see it under old work group and the effect is now written across all channels. should it be seen or is it hidden ? only time i see it is under segment group

I found the same thing making the video ... When I release the video - it will also be addressed.

Joe

JHinkle
10-02-2012, 11:26 PM
Version 6S is released.

I also added a DSP Bandpass filter to the DSP capability and also a Vocal enhancer. Should make it easier to sync to vocals.

Please find the video below that outlines Segments.

Enjoy.

Joe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc1rLLqvzxM&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc1rLLqvzxM&feature=youtu.be)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc1rLLqvzxM&feature=youtu.be

boarder3
10-03-2012, 02:38 PM
I watched video and you made a red green and blue level and you said you made an easy chase. But how ed that a chase when it shows all the channels straight inn a line. Shouldn't blue angle out or is what I'm thinking not possible to do from segments.

JHinkle
10-03-2012, 04:36 PM
I watched video and you made a red green and blue level and you said you made an easy chase. But how ed that a chase when it shows all the channels straight inn a line. Shouldn't blue angle out or is what I'm thinking not possible to do from segments.

The purpose of a segment is to treat a segment of pixels as one. Your question would treat them as individuals. If you wanted individual pixel chase - just use a Display Group where they are treated as single channels (not a segment) and do the same chase.

The video was showing how to create an arc using a group of lights to form the arc as you would using non-pixels. The video used pixel to form a unified light segment (created with pixels) but programmed as a single entity.

Joe

boarder3
10-03-2012, 06:23 PM
OK thats what i figured but when you mentioned chase i thought maybe it could be done. Thanks for the improvements

JHinkle
10-03-2012, 08:26 PM
Your pixel chase can be done - in single channel mode.

Joe

JHinkle
10-04-2012, 08:30 AM
It occurred to me this morning, that I did not explain how I envision Segments fitting into the scheme of sequencing with HLS.

HLS was originally developed to allow sequencing of incans, LEDS, and "Dumb Pixels".

HLS's capabilities were extended to develop using a "Pixel Plane" (a large number of pixels being used as a canvas). HLS supports Nutcracker, video, etc in this format.

Segments were implemented to address the need for treating a small number of pixels as if "they" were "Dump Pixels".

With the price of pixels dropping, many are buying pixels but want to use them - not as individual elements but as small groups.

A perfect example is this http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showthread.php?22208-How-did-he-do-that

This individual used pixels as back lighting for singing Halloween faces.

So ... Segments are NOT meant for developing effects on a large number pixels ... that should be done using Pixel Planes.

I suggest using only ONE of the Segment channels for Preview Vectors. Since the Segment is treating the Pixels as ONE - consider using only one channel for Preview Information.

After the Holiday ... as in Jan 2013, I will begin making Pixel Plane editor capabilities available. This will enable you to develop Nutcracker like effects, timed to your music, right in HLS. The Pixel Plane editor will also allow for Madrix like editing capabilities. Pixel Plane developed effects will THEN also be available in HLS's Preview.

For those doing Halloween automation, Jan 2013 will also start to bring lip-sync capabilities to HLS. You will be able to take your song, tell HLS the words, align the words to the song (width and position) and HLS will provide "Mouth Movement" enumerations .... which you can then use to illuminate different eye and mouth positions.

That's my game plan and how Segments fit in.

Have a great upcoming Holiday .....

Joe

BrianJ
10-04-2012, 11:15 AM
Thanks for this Joe, It makes a lot of things easier and quicker/.

Slight bug to report, I have saved the layout with the segments made and the segments loaded into a display group. When I load the layout into a new sequence the display group Segments displays the segment channels as well as the individual channels that the segments are made up of. Using ctrl B does not reset the display to hide the individual segments. If I close and switch to the original sequence the segment display group displays as intended. It is only after a layout save and new sequence load that the problem surfaces. (running 6T)

Thanks again, I appreciate all the work you have gone through to make such a brilliant tool for us.

JHinkle
10-04-2012, 12:37 PM
Brian:

Since Segments are virtual in nature ... meaning you can create and delete them at will ---- Segments are NOT part of a saved Layout.

Preview vectors are never associated the Segment channel - always with the associated "Real" channels.

So --- when you start a new sequence - you will have to make the Segments as you need them.

I'm open for discussion on this topic ... but the things that go into a saved Layout are things that stay from sequence to sequence.

Joe

angus40
10-04-2012, 12:42 PM
If we use segmenting for window frames or arches and alike , if possible ,we would be keeping them for a layout . i think this is one of the handiest tools yet !

Thanks for creating this Joe .

BrianJ
10-04-2012, 12:45 PM
Thanks, I am OK either way Joe. I tried it to see if it would work as it is a fair job dividing 1000 pixels up into segments and it did seem to save as part of the layout, but if it is not designed to then I am all right with adding them in again. I will just need to remember that when saving layouts and starting new songs.
I was making each group (eaves, windows, garlands, and arches) into four segments each, perfect for making multi-color chases etc. I see in earlier posts that you had a slightly different use in mind but it does make this really handy. (pixel1 into seg1, pix2 into seg2 pix3 into seg3, pix4 into seg4, pix 5 into seg1, pix6 into seg2, etc)

JHinkle
10-04-2012, 02:51 PM
Brian:

I've been thinking about this some more.

I will place Segments in the Layout - addressable by channel name.

The only issue will be .... you already have a channel assigned to some Segment - and then you import from a Library --- it that channels is assigned to a different Segment in the saved Layout - it will not be updated.

That small matter will be your issue to resolve - I will report it ---- but it will save you all the work of re-identifying Segments in new sequences.

Implemented shortly.

Joe