Seperate breakers

[GRIMMII]

I live in an apartment so the display I am building is for my mother. She loves the Christmas lights so I built her a couple of different things with some up and down counters controlling some relays and some lights in bushes this year. Next year I plan on taking it to the next level. I have started building some mini trees and snowflakes with plans to build a mega tree and some wreaths. With what I have bought new and what she already has we are up to about 20,000 lights. This will be by far bigger than anything she has ever had. I plan on using a Grinch controller to control it. I figured 64 channels will be plenty for my first computer controlled setup. At the rate I am going I may get another board for more channels. My question is...She has two unused breakers in her breaker box, would I want to run an outlet off of each or run several off of each? In other words would it be bad to have most of my display running off of a couple of outlets or several even though they are on the same breakers? I believe she has 200 amp service to her house.

[ben]

I would personally run 2 outlets per 15 or 20A breaker. When I get my subpanel put in I have it figured out the an SSR with 3 mini light strings on it has a max of 3.96 A and I can get 4 SSR's per 20A breaker.

Ben

[DynamoBen]

My question is...She has two unused breakers in her breaker box, would I want to run an outlet off of each or run several off of each? In other words would it be bad to have most of my display running off of a couple of outlets or several even though they are on the same breakers? I believe she has 200 amp service to her house.

Technically you can put as many outlets as you want on each breaker. In the end the breaker will only allow 15A to flow to all those outlets. The number of outlets depends on how many you want/need.

The other issue here is the service (200A) and how much is currently on it. A 200A service is really large for an apartment, which makes me wonder how much of it is in use. You will want to be certain that these additional loads won't over stress your service.

[kmiller]

There is no problem running multiple outlets off a single breaker, it is just a question of how you are planning on distributing the power. If you are going to tie all your lights into one location, there is no difference between using multiple outlets and using a single outlet with cord splitters.

Since you will be switching the lights on and off at various times, you get a little load diversity and can connect more lights than the breaker could handle if they were all on at the same time. I have dedicated circuits and haven’t checked in a while, but I think I was getting about a third of an amp per 100 mini’s

Hope this helps.

[stempile]

[quote=GRIMMII]

The other issue here is the service (200A) and how much is currently on it. A 200A service is really large for an apartment, which makes me wonder how much of it is in use. You will want to be certain that these additional loads won't over stress your service.

I read it that he was doing this in an apt at first also, but what he was saying is he lives in an apt and his display is at his Mom's house. If it were an apt then I would be shocked to see a lease that would allow you to modify the breaker panel.

ms

[ben]

[quote=GRIMMII]

The other issue here is the service (200A) and how much is currently on it. A 200A service is really large for an apartment, which makes me wonder how much of it is in use. You will want to be certain that these additional loads won't over stress your service.

I read it that he was doing this in an apt at first also, but what he was saying is he lives in an apt and his display is at his Mom's house. If it were an apt then I would be shocked to see a lease that would allow you to modify the breaker panel.

ms

(my interpretation) he lives in an apartment and he can't do lights so he uses his moms.

Ben

[kylec]

I would personally run 2 outlets per 15 or 20A breaker. When I get my subpanel put in I have it figured out the an SSR with 3 mini light strings on it has a max of 3.96 A and I can get 4 SSR's per 20A breaker.

Ben

Dang thats going to be a lot of breakers!! This year I ran 64 SSR's off of two 20 amp breakers and didn't have any problems. Maybe its the exchange rate because I'm so close to Canada?

[PajdaProductions]

Actually guys the max of any standard set of 100 minis usually runs around .3A, so a channel with 3 strands on it means just under 1A, so you could put 20 SSRs on one 20 A relay. (Assuming facts above)

[GRIMMII]

Sorry for the confusion. I live in the Apt. so I am doing a display at my mother's house. Her house has the 200 amp service.

[ben]

Actually guys the max of any standard set of 100 minis usually runs around .3A, so a channel with 3 strands on it means just under 1A, so you could put 20 SSRs on one 20 A relay. (Assuming facts above)

But, a breaker should be ran at no more than 80-85%. I use the figure 80% and then try and go exactly to that # but don't freak if I am two or three strings over. a 20A breaker at 80%is 16A. an SSR with 3 x .33A mini's on each channel will give you 3.96A (this is for a 4 channel "detached" SSR ) if all was on. so take 3.96 x 4 = 15.84A

This means you can have on 16 channels per breaker. OR 4800 minis on a 20A breaker (if you are running static you could add in about 2 more strings so 5000 minis) I a have some things like my 7 REN16's that only have one string on them since they are for my Mega tree. I will run all 7 off a 20A breaker since the way my sequences are I will never have more then 8-10A coming off the tree. I am also going to try and go "high tech" by getting some amp meter's and placing them on each circuit (I think I will need to Ebay for it ) and then have a main that tells me all the amperage. This will be on my Xmas light circuits only.

So to end my long winded post I will say, I am going to start buy running 2 or 3 20A breakers for my lights which will give me about 10-15k of lights I can trun on at the same time.

Ben

[DynamoBen]

But, a breaker should be ran at no more than 80-85%.

Where did you come up with this? I've been doing electrical work (personal and professional) for a long time and never heard of such a thing. Breakers are actually designed to exceed their rating for a short snap of time. Often times you can run over 15A and still won't get the breaker to trip...not recommended but true.

[ben]

But, a breaker should be ran at no more than 80-85%.

Where did you come up with this? I've been doing electrical work (personal and professional) for a long time and never heard of such a thing. Breakers are actually designed to exceed their rating for a short snap of time. Often times you can run over 15A and still won't get the breaker to trip...not recommended but true.

http://www.planetchristmas.com/FigurePower.htm

When I said no more I meant don't load a breaker at 20A all season. If you are testing it and its high that is fine but I have heard from members that a breaker will wear out alot faster.

Ben

[Michael]

Do all of your best guess calculations, setup everything, and then test the true load with an amp meter.
The Kill-a-watt is a cheap and simple plug in meter. I got mine online for under $20. Used it as I was seting up just to make sure each main feeder extension cord and circuit was under the limit. Only used it for about 10 minutes, but it sure feels good to know the actual power draw instead of guessing.

- Michael

[DynamoBen]

http://www.planetchristmas.com/FigurePower.htm

When I said no more I meant don't load a breaker at 20A all season. If you are testing it and its high that is fine but I have heard from members that a breaker will wear out alot faster.


From that article:
"It's good practice to never put more than 80% load on your breakers/fuses... strictly as a safety measure."

Basically they are saying this is a nice thing to do, I wouldn't call this a hard a fast rule. I have run circuits at their max for extended periods of time, it’s not an issue. The breaker is your safety measure as long as you don't exceed its rating you are good to go.

[ben]

http://www.planetchristmas.com/FigurePower.htm

When I said no more I meant don't load a breaker at 20A all season. If you are testing it and its high that is fine but I have heard from members that a breaker will wear out alot faster.


From that article:
"It's good practice to never put more than 80% load on your breakers/fuses... strictly as a safety measure."

Basically they are saying this is a nice thing to do, I wouldn't call this a hard a fast rule. I have run circuits at their max for extended periods of time, it’s not an issue. The breaker is your safety measure as long as you don't exceed its rating you are good to go.

Well, I planned on that 80% margin since I will blow that and it won't be too high.

Ben

[DynamoBen]

Fair enough I'm careful about this sort of stuff because we are dealing with electricity. I just want to make sure everyone has the facts.

It’s good to have rules of thumbs to guide folks in execution but I want to make sure there is a distinction between "good habitits" and actual laws/regulations/practices.

Not trying to be the storm cloud and rain on everyones parade. ;)

[ben]

Fair enough I'm careful about this sort of stuff because we are dealing with electricity. I just want to make sure everyone has the facts.

It’s good to have rules of thumbs to guide folks in execution but I want to make sure there is a distinction between "good habitits" and actual laws/regulations/practices.

Not trying to be the storm cloud and rain on everyones parade. ;)

yeah. I being 14 cannot afford to burn down a hose or pay for any serious damages. I would rather run one at 80% than push it.

Ben

[wwwgator]

The factor rating is usually set to trip at 80% CONTINUOUS load.
While it's true that you can get more amperage out of a rated breaker, this is called in-rush current, but it is for a brief time only. The manufacturers and UL, have allowed for up to 300% in-rush current to help start heavy loads ( motors, compressors in your fridge, washing machines....).
General rule is 80% continuous- and no more than 10 outlets per breaker.
This is a general "residential" rule with a few exceptions.

Above all, please be safe. If you have any doubt, call a licensed sparky.


Walt G.
Master Electrician/ Commercial Inspector
Evil Genius ( apprentice)

[Trepidati0n]

The reason for 80% is simple..that is the number in effect where breakers/fuses begin to "time". You can run it higher than 80%, it is just that the amount of time before the breaker trips or fuse blows is not near infinity. Therefore designing for 80% continuous is safe and reasonable. Designing for less just means wasted capacity IMO.

[ben]

The reason for 80% is simple..that is the number in effect where breakers/fuses begin to "time". You can run it higher than 80%, it is just that the amount of time before the breaker trips or fuse blows is not near infinity. Therefore designing for 80% continuous is safe and reasonable. Designing for less just means wasted capacity IMO.

that is why I am setting up a chart that will help me keep me at 80% of my power all the time. Basically during most of my dispay the same # of lighs will be on just different ways.

Ben