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Nimish
06-02-2012, 08:17 AM
I have recently bought 2 PCB of Renard SS16 and want to operate it on 230V/50Hz mains. The one thing likely to be replaced is the transformer. 3FS-312 transformer gives 6.3V@.4A single primary.So, I am going to replace the transformer with 230V/50hz input and 6.3V@.4A (this is custom made transformer).

The Controlling circuit (i.e PIC16F688) works on +5v DC so that's okay with the replaced transformer. BTA04 can work up to 600V so that is safe at 230V.

The code will detect the input frequency hope so..."For 50 Hz locales the width of each pulse is 40 μS (approx), and they are placed on multiples of 40 μS across the AC waveform. The PWM versions operate in a similar manner, with the pulse widths being a multiple of 30 μS and 40 μS (roughly) for 60 and 50 Hz locales, respectively."

Please,let me know if any thing is left to be checked before I blow the circuit.

Wayne J
06-02-2012, 10:51 AM
The SS Renards are NOT for 230V operation! There are too many other boards that work in that voltage range to try and modify them to do something they are not intended to do.

kingofkya
06-02-2012, 04:03 PM
I am not sure what the issue would be besides perhaps track spacing. but is the above uses says you should; not do it you probably should not. But the tracks don't look too bad to me.

Also for a new user perspective the renSS is the best board to build as you layout the instructions are perfect. So this kinda thread dosen't surprise me.

budude
06-02-2012, 04:16 PM
The resistors on the TRIACs would need to be changed but I would take Wayne's recommendation (btw HE designed the board) and look at other options.

Nimish
06-04-2012, 01:24 AM
The resistors on the TRIACs would need to be changed but I would take Wayne's recommendation (btw HE designed the board) and look at other options.

From the other post I found that for 230V operation gate resistor should be 330ohm to limit opto current<1A and have enough gate current.I'm using BTA04 700T.

g2ktcf
06-04-2012, 11:34 AM
I have recently bought 2 PCB of Renard SS16 and want to operate it on 230V/50Hz mains. The one thing likely to be replaced is the transformer. 3FS-312 transformer gives 6.3V@.4A single primary.So, I am going to replace the transformer with 230V/50hz input and 6.3V@.4A (this is custom made transformer).

The Controlling circuit (i.e PIC16F688) works on +5v DC so that's okay with the replaced transformer. BTA04 can work up to 600V so that is safe at 230V.

The code will detect the input frequency hope so..."For 50 Hz locales the width of each pulse is 40 μS (approx), and they are placed on multiples of 40 μS across the AC waveform. The PWM versions operate in a similar manner, with the pulse widths being a multiple of 30 μS and 40 μS (roughly) for 60 and 50 Hz locales, respectively."

Please,let me know if any thing is left to be checked before I blow the circuit.

Nimish,

The REN24HC is built to handle 230VAC operation. You have been given excellent advise above however. I am not sure a custom transformer is a good thing. However, the transformer used on the REN24HC is the same footprint as the one used on the SS series...BUT I do not know if the pins work out properly. You need to verify that.

Chris

Nimish
06-05-2012, 06:09 AM
Nimish,

The REN24HC is built to handle 230VAC operation. You have been given excellent advise above however. I am not sure a custom transformer is a good thing. However, the transformer used on the REN24HC is the same footprint as the one used on the SS series...BUT I do not know if the pins work out properly. You need to verify that.

Chris

3FD-312 is the transformer which will give the same output as 3FS-312 but with 230V input
And how the resistor value 750 ohm is calculated,can i use 1k or 680ohm instead of 750ohm

kingofkya
06-05-2012, 04:59 PM
based on keeping the current to the triac correct. you need a 1437.5ohm resistor so a 1.5kohm which is the closest resistance.

CaptKirk
06-05-2012, 06:05 PM
This is really funny- "Do not do this but here is how to do it."

:lol:

Matt_Edwards
06-05-2012, 06:40 PM
May be that is because there has never been a satisfactory explanation why they won't operate on 230v.
EWB - Electrons Without Boarders unite.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

budude
06-05-2012, 06:45 PM
It's probably more a sentiment of "it wasn't expressly designed for it" and "no one ever tested it" - and because of that the recommendation is to stick with something that is known to work. Of course we're all big boys and this is DIY - if you want to do it no one here can stop you but to be sure you don't blow yourself up - there were a couple recommendations (versus an outright endorsement).

kingofkya
06-05-2012, 07:17 PM
May be that is because there has never been a satisfactory explanation why they won't operate on 230v.
EWB - Electrons Without Boarders unite.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2



This attitude is what created this hobby anyways, I am sure many of us were told by someone it can not be done. :)


Also if it does work you are now required by karma to post a summery of what you changed. And part# substitutions etc...

CaptKirk
06-05-2012, 07:42 PM
Screwdrivers were not designed to be used as a prybar or chisel, but they sure can be "misused" to operate fairly well as those. I'd bet we all have done it either out of need, or laziness (did not want to walk to the garage to get the correct tool).

Here is a case where someone only has a screwdriver on hand but needs a chisel. The lawers at the tool manufacturer would obvisouly tell you not to use it that way in the name of liability. Note: I am NOT calling Wayne a tool!! Really! ;-) (Wayne you know I am joking around here)

If one is aware of the limitations (design limitations, current limits, changes required, and the possibility of smoke and or fire) then in the spirit of DIY, why not go for it!! If it works, it would be nice to know for our overly powerful (220V) friends to have another option in their "blinky toolbox".

I wonder if we jump to "don't do it - not designed for that" too quickly sometimes? hmmm...

Wayne J
06-05-2012, 08:13 PM
May be that is because there has never been a satisfactory explanation why they won't operate on 230v.
EWB - Electrons Without Boarders unite.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

Yes, there has.... it adds options, options create confusion. The boards were designed for the majority of users, which operate on 120VAC. Other boards here have BOMs and instructions for 240VAC, so there is absolutely no need to use these for that. ;)

Wayne J
06-05-2012, 08:16 PM
This attitude is what created this hobby anyways, I am sure many of us were told by someone it can not be done. :)


Also if it does work you are now required by karma to post a summery of what you changed. And part# substitutions etc...

And I ask that this does NOT happen. The instructions for assembly and all post related to it is for 120VAC. I would really like to keep it that way.
Again... WLC Ventures has the Ren24HC which does 240VAC already, no need to do this.

RavingLunatic
06-05-2012, 08:57 PM
I wonder if we jump to "don't do it - not designed for that" too quickly sometimes? hmmm...

In this case I would say no.


Using your example, we have people correctly pointing out that there is a perfectly good chisel that can be used instead of using the screwdriver. So just use the chisel.


The SS boards were designed with all trace/component clearances with 120VAC in mind. While it may safely work with 230VAC in some situations, it may not in others. So why modify a board that the designer is advising against when there are better options available.

If there were no other options available then maybe the responses would be different but since there are several other choices, I don't see any reason to encourage the effort.

I'm kinda curious how he got a SS board in the first place since I know Wayne doesn't sell to non-120VAC users.

CaptKirk
06-05-2012, 10:02 PM
Wow, we better disconnect our LED and incan strings from our controllers because those strings were not designed to be used with them. Better take down those mega-trees and arches, because water pipe and conduit were not designed to do decorations. We better throw away those FAST tubes because the tube protectors we put around them were designed for other purposes. We better get rid of the vampire plugs and SPT2 wire because they were not supposed to be used for outdoor lighting! We better take our electrical controllers out of the network demarcation boxes and other communications based cases because - you know...

The list goes on and on. We adapt SO MANY things for purposes they were not intended, I again wonder about these self imposed limitations to things that ought to work with tweaks. Yeah I agree in this case the whole 120 vs 240 is a bit scary, but we so tend to jump to extreme positions on adaptations and reuse of technologies in general and I wonder if we should do so, so readily...

Matt_Edwards
06-05-2012, 10:25 PM
Wayne,
If I were into Renards, I would want to use the latest streamlined design. Your version has an awful lot going for it.

Cheers

Nimish
06-06-2012, 12:57 AM
May be that is because there has never been a satisfactory explanation why they won't operate on 230v.
EWB - Electrons Without Boarders unite.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
Yes that is correct,there is no concrete reason why it should not be used or modified.I do agree that it is safe for hobbyist to use it only for 120V.But the schematic are same for REN24HC and Renard SS16 except the supply transformer, H11AA1 resistor and gate resistor.Track spacing of Renard SS16 PCB is great.There are no concrete..technical reasons why these components cannot be substituted.

kingofkya
06-07-2012, 07:56 PM
Why can't we all use? He same mains power. Well at least you dont have all maiins voltages 5feet from each other. I work in datacenter 220 is quite fun when your not paying attention.... desktop power supply fues glow quite bright then pop. :) forgetting to flip the red switch.

Nimish
06-09-2012, 02:22 AM
It`s working.....Lamp is dimming....basic testing is done with connecting lamp to channel 5.Will fill the rest of the triacs and MOC3023.Also,the diagnostic test was successful
Replaced components are....
1) 230V to 6V,600ma 50Hz transformer.(custom made..waiting for 3FD-312 to be shipped)
2) gate resistance to 300 ohm
3) USB to RS232 converter for serial communication.
Will soon do on field testing with all channels connected with multiple lamps..
...Thanks Wayne and all other supporting members.

Matt_Edwards
06-09-2012, 03:21 AM
Now for something totally confusing, the Ren24HC doesn't actualy exist! Not in the Wiki any way. After chacking out Ren24HC at WLC Ventures you discover it is the Ren24- V3.3.
The Wiki make no mention of the gate resistor change for 220V operation either.

Jrd
06-11-2012, 11:02 PM
Now for something totally confusing, the Ren24HC doesn't actualy exist! Not in the Wiki any way. After chacking out Ren24HC at WLC Ventures you discover it is the Ren24- V3.3.
The Wiki make no mention of the gate resistor change for 220V operation either.

Hmm, good point, the wiki does not mention the resistor changes for 2*0V operation but they are listed on the PCB, of course by the time most people see the PCB they have probably already ordered parts.

In other news, Kostyun's Renard 24 HC page can now be accessed from Ren24HC (http://www.doityourselfchristmas.com/wiki/index.php?title=Ren24HC). (It could use some maintenance)