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KC
05-17-2012, 02:31 PM
My access to the board at work has been blocked (I'm surprised it took them that long) and work itself has been a bear. It's been killing me to leave everyone in a "um? well?" state, so I took today off just to do Vixen-related stuff. And to fix a toilet, but that's outside the scope of this post.

There has been progress going on in the background. But you guys don't know that; you get nothing until we drop a big ol' update on your head and then we run back to our keyboards. That's been our classic model and it's been a bad deal for you guys, so we're going to try to change it. We're going to try out a modified version of Mozilla's release channel model. This will provide some transparency into the progress we make and give brave souls earlier access to unfinished binaries. Believe me, I've been hating these months of darkness we've imposed.

Here's what the channels will look like:

Release
Description: An official release! A party is had. Everyone wears a hat.
Intended audience: Everyone.
Operational stability: As stable as it gets; cast in stone.
Functional stability: No features or functionality will be changed.

Beta
Description: Not "an official release!", but more like "a possible release?". A release candidate.
Intended audience: Everyone.
Operational stability: We think it's stable; you should be able to base some work on this.
Functional stability: Feature set and functionality may change, but not likely.

Alpha
Description: Middle ground between ugly not-nightlies and bound-for-beauty betas. Great for regression testing.
Intended audience: Early adopters, power users, developers.
Operational stability: We're pretty sure it's not stable; don't base any work you want to keep on this. Everything that's intended to work should work, but no guarantees.
Functional stability: Features and functionality will definitely change as they are implemented or refactored.

Not-nightly Builds
Description: A commit to source control that builds successfully. All changes will show up here first. This is the ugly view into progress.
Intended audience: Developers.
Operational stability: Changes may be subtle or devastating. Don't count on everything working and do count on some intentional breaks.
Functional stability: Features and functionality will come and go like ninjas in the night. Sometimes. Other times nothing on the surface will change for weeks.

Like I said, this isn't going to be like Mozilla since we have to take the time we can find. This will be more of a bubbling model where builds show up in the lowest channel and appropriate ones bubble up to the "alpha" channel. Eventually, ones will bubble up to the "beta" channel, and ultimately a single one will make it up to "release".

For now, there will just be browsable directories at www.vixenlights.com/download/ (http://www.vixenlights.com/download/). IF time and effort can be had, it would be nice to put up some attractive pages.

What's there now?
I took the latest commit and tagged it as 3.0.1.0 as a starting place. The same zip file sits in the "builds" directory as well. As for what's in that zip file, I'll put up another post to avoid doubling my usual rambling. It's alpha, it's rough, it's missing a lot, but a lot of core changes are in place and I can make my desk lamp do funny things with it.

I hope this allows you guys to see that movement is being made and that we're not sitting around sipping lemonade and waiting for crunch time before we do any work. Heck, the whole YEAR is crunch time! I can't believe it's May.

budude
05-17-2012, 02:37 PM
Hi KC - perhaps a description of the major differences between this 3.0.1.0 release and the previous release you folks put out?

Still hoping to use 3x this year...

Greg in Canby
05-17-2012, 02:57 PM
Thanks for the update KC, good to hear from you.

As details "bubble up" with 3.0.1.0, I hope your toilet project only bubbles down - good luck!

Greg

KC
05-17-2012, 03:08 PM
Hi KC - perhaps a description of the major differences between this 3.0.1.0 release and the previous release you folks put out?
Yep, it can be found here: http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showthread.php?20569-Changes-referenced-in-quot-Latest-news-quot

Materdaddy
05-17-2012, 04:52 PM
Awesome KC, THANK YOU!

I will be a consumer of these when I have time and will appreciate the heck out of them. I too hope to use Vixen 3.0 this year.

ErnieHorning
05-17-2012, 07:09 PM
This is great news KC! I was beginning to wonder if you guys had all skipped out to some tropical island, never to be heard from again.

I was almost to the point of saying to heck with Vixen 3.0 this year but Iím going to trust the excitement that Iím getting from your post and go forth with the Vixen bubble. We all want Vixen 3 to be the exceptional software that we know it can be.

Just be for warned that we will beat it up and once again find those obscure bugs that will drive you nuts trying to swat. :biggrin2:

ctmal
05-17-2012, 07:15 PM
Thanks for the update KC. Looking forward to digging into it again.

OregonLights
05-17-2012, 09:00 PM
Thank you for the update! Great to hear the progress, I'm really excited!

jmccoh
05-17-2012, 10:35 PM
Hey KC, how did the toilet fix turn out?

Thanks for the update.

ErnieHorning
05-17-2012, 10:44 PM
Hey KC, how did the toilet fix turn out?
Knowing KC, he'll just blame it on the hardware. :lol:

aussiephil
05-18-2012, 03:17 AM
KC

Many Thanks for the update, it's good to hear something, so many people thought it had all died.... considering the amount of work that's gone into this as a re-write the silence is not surprising.

Cheers and best wishes
Phil

KC
05-18-2012, 09:49 PM
Hey KC, how did the toilet fix turn out?
The flapper is clean and smooth, the seat for the flapper is clean and smooth...I am officially flummoxed. And down half a day-off for it.


Knowing KC, he'll just blame it on the hardware. :lol:
Hey, that doesn't mean it's not the hardware. Even a stopped clock is right a couple times a day. And besides, I'm a software guy; it's practically in my job description to pass the buck.

KC
05-18-2012, 09:51 PM
...so many people thought it had all died....
Really? Man, I'm glad I said something. I mean, you all should know better, but when you're left with nothing being said for so long, it's not exactly a far-fetched conclusion.

aussiephil
05-19-2012, 02:01 PM
Really? Man, I'm glad I said something. I mean, you all should know better, but when you're left with nothing being said for so long, it's not exactly a far-fetched conclusion.

I'm glad you said something too, though even then i've had to convince a number of people that what you have said is a very positive indication of progress. During June and July Australia will have FIVE major "mini's" Melborne, Adelaide, Perth, Brisbane and Sydney and i believe some form of Vixen3 demo has been scheduled for each, but at least one organiser is now concerned that the differences between the original beta and the new may be too great and has talked of pulling the demo.

My brief look says it is not but the now missing effects from the sequencer put a large dint in demo ability.

Whilst it will now doubt happen when you get the full setup for builds etc running, in the mean time is there any chance of a Build Number as part of the ZIP file name so we know when to download a new build?

Cheers
Phil

KC
05-19-2012, 02:41 PM
...in the mean time is there any chance of a Build Number as part of the ZIP file name so we know when to download a new build?
That is the plan. Also email notifications, but the continuous integration isn't yet put together.

I know that there are three effects that we had in the previous demo that aren't there currently -- chase, spin, and twinkle. They're coming. Will their presence be enough for the jeopardized presenters to carry through with their presentations?

There are a couple of things in there that may aid them too. Fire me an email and we can hash this out offline.

aussiephil
05-19-2012, 09:24 PM
That is the plan. Also email notifications, but the continuous integration isn't yet put together.

I know that there are three effects that we had in the previous demo that aren't there currently -- chase, spin, and twinkle. They're coming. Will their presence be enough for the jeopardized presenters to carry through with their presentations?

There are a couple of things in there that may aid them too. Fire me an email and we can hash this out offline.

Email sent, thanks.

cheers
Phil

aussiephil
05-20-2012, 09:11 AM
Hi KC and team,

Thanks for 3.0.1.1 and the effects added back in. All the configuration screens and boxes seem to work correctly on the effects and you can add them to a sequence without issue.

Got a preview window up and running and in the absence of actual E131 output (all i really use these days) based on the preview window the chase effect may not be functioning as i expect.

Is the bug tracker up and running or should i just leave this with you to check the code out, maybe expectation is different to intent.

the RGB property seems to be missing at the moment as well.

Should we have a general feedback thread to stop the clutter.

Thanks for the hard work KC and all as always

Cheers
Phil

KC
05-20-2012, 06:22 PM
I thought I had that chase working the same as it was in 3.0.0. What are you seeing that's different?

aussiephil
05-21-2012, 08:24 AM
KC,
Went back and checked.
Setup:
50 Nodes grouped into a single node group.
8 second chase, set to bounce back and forward with a RGB gradient set to apply to whole effect.

in 3.0.1.1
What i see is the 50 nodes have the gradient applied over the time period but the nodes don't chase.

in 3.0.0.0
The 50 nodes would chase back and forward with the gradient applied over time.

Interpretation:
The chase effect is being applied at the group level only.

Now this is a priority/parent/child problem that the team may already in hand but for say a pixel megatree i may want a chase to occur at different group levels. IE... on a per node basis, a per string basis or across a group of items.
Taking that a logical step further, to be able to have a chase applied at the node level and a separate overlaid chase applied at the string level could be very very powerful.

Cheers
Phil

KC
05-21-2012, 07:41 PM
You may have to explain this to me further. I attached a screenshot of what I think you're saying, as far as the config for the effect. Doing this, the result I see is a chase down followed by a chase up; the color of each changing from red to green over the span of the whole effect.

aussiephil
05-22-2012, 12:24 AM
You may have to explain this to me further. I attached a screenshot of what I think you're saying, as far as the config for the effect. Doing this, the result I see is a chase down followed by a chase up; the color of each changing from red to green over the span of the whole effect.

KC
I'll do a little video up later today for you, think the video will explain it better and may trap any mistakes i'm making.

The other thing is i hope it's not a legacy hold over to any files from the original beta, that separate folder structure would be great, any chance of a 3.0.1.2 with just a vixen301x folder created under my documents?

Cheers
Phil

aussiephil
05-22-2012, 10:00 PM
KC,

sorry got sidetracked last night, here's the video as promised, it does crash at the end but i think that is a random event in this case.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/77046931/video/vix3-ev1.mp4

unless this is a weird issue with the visualiser...
Cheers
Phil

KC
05-23-2012, 08:38 PM
A picture is worth 1,000 words. That preview module was not supposed to sneak into the build. It was a test module and, as you saw, hasn't been brought up to date over the past several weeks and likely doesn't handle the data quite correctly.

I can pop out a .2 build with a "Vixen3" data directory and pull that thing out of there. Sorry for the confusion. The "dummy lighting" controller is more likely to give you a proper result.

aussiephil
05-23-2012, 10:29 PM
A picture is worth 1,000 words. That preview module was not supposed to sneak into the build. It was a test module and, as you saw, hasn't been brought up to date over the past several weeks and likely doesn't handle the data quite correctly.

I can pop out a .2 build with a "Vixen3" data directory and pull that thing out of there. Sorry for the confusion. The "dummy lighting" controller is more likely to give you a proper result.

KC

Thanks, tested, the effects seem to be working as expected, from a practical demo and testing viewpoint the RGB property is still missing and that seems to be required to setup RGB channels correctly, the dummy lighting controller displays weird things when set to RGb but the channels don't have the property.

Now i know that the drawing of the effect in the visualiser is no doubt missing for performance reasons at the moment, (it's hugely better btw) is there any indication on it being added back in some form?

Cheers
Phil

dirknerkle
05-23-2012, 10:31 PM
The "dummy lighting" controller is more likely to give you a proper result.

Hey, You talkin' about me?!?!?!? :lol:


I admire your perseverence and attentiveness, K.C.

aussiephil
05-24-2012, 08:09 PM
Hey, You talkin' about me?!?!?!? :lol:


I admire your perseverence and attentiveness, K.C.

Yes I think he was..........

KC
05-25-2012, 08:36 PM
Hey, You talkin' about me?!?!?!?
But didn't I say that you'd give a proper result? That's still a compliment, right? ;)


...the RGB property is still missing and that seems to be required to setup RGB channels correctly...
Actually, we've changed how color is handled. Instead of requiring the RGB property (and therefore requiring effects to be aware of it), output filters handle it. It does require a bit of explanation how to set it up in the UI, but there is a shortcut for doing a whole controller at a time (and multiple controllers). The idea is that a filter on an output will determine the color for that output. If you have hardware that requires three-channel RGB data, you set filters on each output to split the color data into R, G, and B components. Or if you need to do RGBY, the same filter (in this case) will filter an output to be the Y component.

The point is that the controller specifies it needs color data generated, it receives color data, and then filters on the outputs decompose it according to whatever hardware you have connected to it (with direction from you, of course).

jpb
06-01-2012, 12:47 AM
Is it too early to start playing with v3.0.1.3 and posting results in the bug tracker?
Not saying that there are bugs.

Jon

KC
06-01-2012, 05:16 PM
Oh there will be, I can guarantee that. Not intentionally, of course.

Feel free to play, but know that the UI is still in flux. 99% of it is what was there before, but there are a few new things that can be done that don't have a great "here it is!" presentation. What you'd see right now are context menu items thrown in to test new tools and pieces of functionality. UI is not my forte, so a proper presentation has been left to those stronger in that than myself.

There is also functionality that you can't even get to yet, such as sequence filters.

RichF
06-03-2012, 05:19 PM
IS the E 1.31 output working in vixen 3. I tried today and when set up the output It does not let me select a multicast port. I may be doing something wrong but had to try today when i was playing with the 681 boards.

KC
06-04-2012, 07:31 PM
I've gotten word that it isn't working as it's expected to work. Someone volunteered to port one, so I should ping him and see how that's going.

aussiephil
06-07-2012, 11:11 PM
KC

Any fresh builds past 3.0.1.2?

Be really good if J1SYS got the E131 module done but understand he has been flat out with hardware over the last couple weeks.

Got Brisbane (16/17) and Adelaide (23) mini's coming up and would love too have the latest builds.

Phil

KC
06-08-2012, 11:07 PM
Poor guy sounds like he's getting worked into the ground like a stake.

There are a couple newer builds, but no outward-facing changes at this point. Anything additional you can think you'd need for the minis?

aussiephil
06-09-2012, 07:58 AM
Poor guy sounds like he's getting worked into the ground like a stake.

There are a couple newer builds, but no outward-facing changes at this point. Anything additional you can think you'd need for the minis?

KC,

E131 output for me is the biggy so i can get actual output, i'll have a chat with Ed.

The obvious missing thing from the UI is the effect "preview" in the effect on the timeline.

The question i keep getting asked is "when will it be out"

Oh btw, selecting black (0,0,0) still doesn't work in the color dialogs, is that in the bug list?

Cheers
Phil

KC
06-09-2012, 10:35 PM
The editor is the baby of Michael and Jonathon, but I took a crack at it. I did get the effects previewing again and I think the changes we made to the core framework allowed the effect preview to be more performant. I tested it with the existing effects and it looks pretty good. Currently, it will only support effects that use lighting intents, but that's all of the current ones.

I wish I had a good answer to the release question. UI is the big thing right now. We have a lot of changes that aren't supported by the UI yet and some general admin UI changes that are being evaluated. I leave that to the guys that have more UI expertise than myself. We had a call about it last weekend and I know that Michael has some ideas he's working through.

The back end is relatively stable; the only changes going on there are smaller-scale to facilitate current and future module ideas. Modules have not had to be rebuilt due to those changes, but that doesn't guarantee that it won't stay that way. I don't anticipate any changes to the interfaces for effect modules, at least not according to the near-term road map.

There is also another non-code-related thing in the works that's taking up some effort. So we're hitting several fronts simultaneously. :)

Michael explained the motivations and rational behind the color dialogs to me at one point, but that was months ago. I think it was something along the lines that you use the color dialog to specify a color and then the curve to affect the intensity of that color. Black would be any color with a 0% intensity. This assumes that I'm remembering his explanation correctly.

Anyway, 3.0.1.5 is out there with the effect preview and a couple back-end changes to facilitate it.