LSP2 is Released!

[dirknerkle]

Well, it had to happen eventually. I just got an email that LightShowPro 2.0 has just been released. I bought it last year and never used it. It never worked right for me. Now I have to decide if I want to upgrade my old LSP to the new one...

...let's see...how does that old adage go... Oh, I remember...

....fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me... :(

[fasteddy]

Im sure you will be much happier with V2, at least its worth a relook

[budude]

I figured I was in already - might as well go "all in" and hopefully get something working. The real #()*#@ was that I missed the 1-year free upgrade by a matter of 10 days........ I upgraded so we'll see if it's a go this year...

[barbotte]

I figured I was in already - might as well go "all in" and hopefully get something working. The real #()*#@ was that I missed the 1-year free upgrade by a matter of 10 days........ I upgraded so we'll see if it's a go this year...
so because it was expired di you pay full price or just the 49 $
i wanted to give another try too .. but not payinf $150 for it

[budude]

so because it was expired di you pay full price or just the 49 $
i wanted to give another try too .. but not payinf $150 for it

Just the $49 - there was no way $150 was happening... Not saying it's not worth it but I would rather spend that on something else...

[RPM]

Just the $49 - there was no way $150 was happening... Not saying it's not worth it but I would rather spend that on something else...

Maybe if you email David he'll give you the free upgrade since you're so close. It's worth the try.

[N7XG]

I too like Dirknerkle never got it to work correctly and waited for a new release to correct problems. In an email I received from David he explained many thousands of hours spent on version 2. I suspect these hours were for new features and not to make the product rock solid. I have been monitoring his formus and see that others share my concern. So if I do the math correct I purchased the prov version for $89, and now it is $449 and the normal upgrade price is $150.

The real problem I have is that if I plunk down the $49.00 will I still have the same problems as before. BTW, my biggest problem was importing Vixen sequences.

Perhaps Vixen is the correct path for me and besides this is a hobby and not an inventment of software.

[fasteddy]

I too like Dirknerkle never got it to work correctly and waited for a new release to correct problems. In an email I received from David he explained many thousands of hours spent on version 2. I suspect these hours were for new features and not to make the product rock solid. I have been monitoring his formus and see that others share my concern. So if I do the math correct I purchased the prov version for $89, and now it is $449 and the normal upgrade price is $150.

The real problem I have is that if I plunk down the $49.00 will I still have the same problems as before. BTW, my biggest problem was importing Vixen sequences.

Perhaps Vixen is the correct path for me and besides this is a hobby and not an inventment of software.

All you can do is download the demo and see for yourself, if its up to your standard then you will use it, if its not then you have other options, but still worth a look.

[dirknerkle]

Okay, so I bought the "upgrade" for $49. I purchased LSP last year, so I thought the upgrade was a good choice. Here's my experience with it so far...

The web site said I would receive my License Key immediately. Well, close, but certainly not immediately. It took about a half hour via email.

I installed the upgrade. When I started it, it told me the existing license was not valid for LSP 2.0. I expected that, since it was a license for 1.8. But I had my new license key, so I entered it into the space provided, and clicked INSTALL.

Errors abound. It was unable to validate my license key which I had just received via email. It suggested that I try it again. So I did. I tried it about a dozen times. Nada.

I had hoped that the new and improved version was, well, new and improved. But what I'm seeing is just more of the same. :sad:

[mschell]

I'm certainly not defending David or his pricing structure. However, given that v2 is a complete rewrite, or at least a major update, I'm sure there were many changes done - not for new features, but to speed up or correct issues that came to light in previous versions.

Also, as in just about any software project, scaling up to 1000's of channels is one thing, but going to tens of 1000s channels is not a trivial matter. The original version of LSP wasn't guaranteed to go to 30000 channels, and so the "PRO" version that is now $449 is something very different from the original version you purchased.

For those that haven't checked out the new structure, there are now 3 "versions" of LightShow Pro. The basic version, which goes up to 512 channels or one DMX universe. The Advanced version, which goes up to 8192 channels and is available for previous purchasers for a $49 upgrade, and the "Professional" version that goes up to 32,000 channels.

With the features of LSP that handle RGB much better than most other software, it's not surprising that you pay more for more channels.

I have used LSP for the last 3 years, and while I had to work around some "issues", especially with the scheduler, my show ran most every night, with little interaction by me for over 30 nights each year.

And, no, I wasn't a beta tester or had any early access to the V2 code. In fact, I need to go and place my upgrade order soon!

[mykroft]

with "2" items in my display - i am at 4500 rgb channels already - I cant afford the pro version - so I am going to have to find something for next year when I add the rest.....

[dirknerkle]

Update...

I contacted David, he suggested the following:
* uninstall LSP
* delete all the folders
* make sure I had the "most recent version of the installer" (I used the one he provided as a link in his email)
* make sure I have access to the Internet (I do via cable, DSL, and Satellite, so I have plenty of access...)
* run the installer
* use the license key provided for V2
* he said if I had problems, I could "save" the license key and email it to him so that he'd authenticate it himself.

I went a few steps further. I removed all references to LightShowPro and GraphXPros from the registry, scanned the computer for any LIC files (his license file is named License.lic) and re-downloaded the installer. I rebooted the computer multiple times to make sure it was clean, and finally I verified that I had access to the Internet.

Nada. Still won't validate. So I send him the license key file that the feature "saves" and he'll try to validate it.

Somebody, correct me if I'm wrong, but I sure can't find any sort of improvement in the LSP product over the "old" one. This one won't even authenticate! To me, this isn't the kind of performance I was expecting at all... It looks like another $49 down the drain.... :sad:

[fasteddy]

Update...

I contacted David, he suggested the following:
* uninstall LSP
* delete all the folders
* make sure I had the "most recent version of the installer" (I used the one he provided as a link in his email)
* make sure I have access to the Internet (I do via cable, DSL, and Satellite, so I have plenty of access...)
* run the installer
* use the license key provided for V2
* he said if I had problems, I could "save" the license key and email it to him so that he'd authenticate it himself.

I went a few steps further. I removed all references to LightShowPro and GraphXPros from the registry, scanned the computer for any LIC files (his license file is named License.lic) and re-downloaded the installer. I rebooted the computer multiple times to make sure it was clean, and finally I verified that I had access to the Internet.

Nada. Still won't validate. So I send him the license key file that the feature "saves" and he'll try to validate it.

Somebody, correct me if I'm wrong, but I sure can't find any sort of improvement in the LSP product over the "old" one. This one won't even authenticate! To me, this isn't the kind of performance I was expecting at all... It looks like another $49 down the drain.... :sad:

So beside the authenticating issue your seeing have you at least given the demo a run as you seem to be basing the whole function and stability of LSP on an authentication issue. For someone of your calibre i would think you would at least look a bit deeper than just at the authentication issue before righting it off.

[fasteddy]

with "2" items in my display - i am at 4500 rgb channels already - I cant afford the pro version - so I am going to have to find something for next year when I add the rest.....

I wonder how much those 2 items alone would have cost. LSPv2 gives you 16 universes for an upgrade fee of $49 if you need more than 16 universes then the 64 universe version will cost a bit more. But when you look at the cost that is put into hardware, the cost of the software that makes it all run is still only a small percentage of that outlay. The other options available for high channels counts at the moment are to use madrix which would cost you 8 x the price of LSPv2 for the same channel count or you could use Vixen which at the moment is difficult to use with large channel counts, or wait for vixen 3 which really isnt an option until it is released. There are a few other options out there but again they will either cost you in time or money.

[n8huntsman]

I bought 1.8 a month ago, knowing that I'd get a free upgrade. At first 1.8 was unusable and frustrating. I persevered and created a sequence. I must say that once you get the hang of the work arounds and figure out what works, what doesnt, etc, it does get much easier. Now to play devils advocate, for paid software, you shouldn't have to do that. I got my free upgrade and to my surprise, it upgraded me to the pro version. My experience thus far, they have gotten rid of most of the blatant issues. Optimization now takes about 20 to 30 seconds instead of 10 minutes. The file size is about 1/10 of the size that it used to be. Importing sequences from 1.8 goes smoothly. Now for the bad, there is still a huge lag when manually sequencing 450 RGB channels (1350 channels) with on, off, ramp, blend, etc. This could be my computer or a .net issue but I haven't had time to post videos of my issues for them to address. It seems that they are very actively helping people with issues on the forum right now. The good thing is that with the transitions, I don't think you will need those features much. So I think the bottom line is, if you don't have RGB's, don't bother with LSP 2.0. If you do have RGB's wait to see what Vixen 3.0 brings, unless of course you get a free upgrade as in my case.

[budude]

I put 2.0 on a new computer that did not have 1.8 to begin with and it went fine including the license install. However - the day after installing I got a notice to install a newer version of 2.0 and received a different license code. I have not installed the new license as of yet.

email from LSP:

Hi,
I apologize for the email but have an important update to ensure that you getthe licensed activations and channel count in LSP v2
1) First, You will need to download and reinstall lightshow pro from the link Here! ("Here!" contained a link)
2) You will then need to uninstall your previous license by clicking on the Registrationmenuitem then click on the uninstall button.
3) finally install your new license identified below for full access to your activation,feature and channel limits.
Your license key is listed below:

You may want to re-download the 2.0 installer again?

[dirknerkle]

So beside the authenticating issue your seeing have you at least given the demo a run as you seem to be basing the whole function and stability of LSP on an authentication issue. For someone of your calibre i would think you would at least look a bit deeper than just at the authentication issue before righting it off.

Oh I have. I write software for a living and am co-owner of a company that produces custom accounting, POS and payment processing software. So I think I have a pretty solid grasp of how a retail package ought to work. For one, it ought to install and if validation keys are provided they *have* to work, first time, every time. Anything less that this basic benchmark is not quality. A new user should not have to jack around with the OS and delete directories, etc.

Of course I've gone past the validation issue and fired the product up, but without authentication it goes into DEMO mode so you can't really do a lot with it. Demo mode cuts you down to 16 channels so it's not much of a test. Some of the basic things still don't work and are illogically placed in the software to boot. Of course, some of that is my opinion, but when you start a function and have an option to "stop" it, the stop ought to work.

[fasteddy]

Oh I have. I write software for a living and am co-owner of a company that produces custom accounting, POS and payment processing software. So I think I have a pretty solid grasp of how a retail package ought to work. For one, it ought to install and if validation keys are provided they *have* to work, first time, every time. Anything less that this basic benchmark is not quality. A new user should not have to jack around with the OS and delete directories, etc.

Of course I've gone past the validation issue and fired the product up, but without authentication it goes into DEMO mode so you can't really do a lot with it. Demo mode cuts you down to 16 channels so it's not much of a test. Some of the basic things still don't work and are illogically placed in the software to boot. Of course, some of that is my opinion, but when you start a function and have an option to "stop" it, the stop ought to work.

I wonder how much that software would cost the end user that you work with, a lot more expensive than LSP i would expect. Software as you would know takes a lot of effort and time to develop, the more resources put into development mean a much higher cost for the end user. If we are to expect the same quality as madrix software then we would be paying 8x the cost for LSP. I understand that LSP is not perfect but it will make my seqiuencing much easier this year and i wont have to pay the amounts that other comparable software packages like madrix would cost me. Vixen 3 will be a great offering but then its a big risk to wait for vixen 3 and hope that it does what you want without issues especially on its first release. I tend to think Vixen 3 will be a powerful platform for next year but maybe pushing to fit in for this year. Hopefully im wrong. This is only my view and this will differ from others.

[dirknerkle]

Fasteddy,

Yes, our software is much, much more expensive than LSP, but I think you'd agree that there are certain baseline features of a piece of software that must work from the get-go. Installation and validation are the very first things an end user does with a piece of software and if they don't work right, then the user immediately has a bad taste in his/her mouth about the product. And it can only go downhill from there.

I put out some code that *kinda worked* a long time ago. It was a mistake, I learned from it and have never repeated it. I understand resources and development cost. But what I also understand is what the term "quality" means.

I don't doubt that LSP will become a good program some day, and I'm glad it will help you with your show. I, for one, won't be among those who are going to struggle with it until it's a solid performer.

[macebobo]

Let the sequencer holy wars begin ;)

[mmulvenna]

Okay, so I bought the "upgrade" for $49. I purchased LSP last year, so I thought the upgrade was a good choice. Here's my experience with it so far...

The web site said I would receive my License Key immediately. Well, close, but certainly not immediately. It took about a half hour via email.

I installed the upgrade. When I started it, it told me the existing license was not valid for LSP 2.0. I expected that, since it was a license for 1.8. But I had my new license key, so I entered it into the space provided, and clicked INSTALL.

Errors abound. It was unable to validate my license key which I had just received via email. It suggested that I try it again. So I did. I tried it about a dozen times. Nada.

I had hoped that the new and improved version was, well, new and improved. But what I'm seeing is just more of the same. :sad:


Hi Dave,

I am not sure why you have had the issue, I have not heard of it before from other users. Perhaps somehow you did mot receive the correct downloaded version.

Really sounds like you had one error rather than "Errors abound" but I can fully understand your frustration.

You might try this...

Go to the home page of LSP
Download the free trial
use the new key you were provided via the e-mail

If that does not work can you let me know,I would like to get to the bottom of the issue so if other users have it I can help them out.

[fasteddy]

The issue with the registration is caused by a proxy so it wasnt the actual LSP software that has caused the issue. There have been server issue over at LSP due to the high demand

[mmulvenna]

So beside the authenticating issue your seeing have you at least given the demo a run as you seem to be basing the whole function and stability of LSP on an authentication issue. For someone of your calibre i would think you would at least look a bit deeper than just at the authentication issue before righting it off.
Have you tried what I suggested?

[N7XG]

I still think Dave is missing his mark on the new version. I agree with Dirk about first time impressions. They are very important. In an email I received from him he states that the normal prices are 99, 249, an 399 yet when you look at his website the prices are 129, 299, and 449 This is also conflicting. My confusion here is do I plunk down the $49 now in hopes that he will fix the problems, or wait for a while longer and pay a lot more for the upgrade.

I think this other thing that annoys me is that I offered to help test and he declined. In fact several of my email were just ignored. I am concerned that this pattern will not change.

I also suspect that many of the problems I was having with LSP ver 1.8 are still there.

[mmulvenna]

I also suspect that many of the problems I was having with LSP ver 1.8 are still there.

Are you basing your comments that there are some inconsistencies in the web site? If that is true you probably would not buy any software. One can pick apart little things like this that don't have anything to do with the operation of the software. Just try the new version and post accurate comments. You will obviously find things you dont like but at least try it before making comments like "I also suspect that many of the problems I was having with LSP ver 1.8 are still there."

Rather than just guess, why not try it and report accurate facts rather than suspicions. Why plunk anything down, try the trial version for free.........

I have made a suggestion to Dirk about how to possibly correct his issue but have not heard if that resolved it or not. He probably has not had time to try it yet.

I will attempt to answer any questions related to the product but am tired of and wont respond any further , as another user stated, to the "the holy sequencing wars".

[dirknerkle]

Update...

After multiple tries, reboots, reinstalls, and even trying different computers, the software FINALLY authenticated. It could have been a server issue, but the only time it worked was when I typed the serial number in all lower case. In upper case (which is what is delivered to the user) it never worked. It may have been situational, but even so, the registration mechanism is an integral part of the software and whatever is used, be it the Internet or otherwise, there's little excuse for not preparing for it. LSP uses the Qsetup system for its installation method and Qsetup has internal as well as web-based authentication capability. Qsetup's web-side mechanism is not bulletproof and has some real weaknesses. Having used Qsetup myself, I'm quite aware of what it does well and what it does poorly.

Just as a test last night, I imported a working Vixen sequence, configured the controller, verified with the controller test that it was correct, turned on the outputs and ran the sequence. Nothing worked except the audio. This was exactly the same experience I had with version 1.8, so as far as the end result is concerned, it doesn't appear that much has changed.

I hope others have more success with LSP than I have had and for them, I wish them all the best and will applaud their accomplishments. For me, it appears that it's just another piece of software I can't use, and I have many, many more important things to do than to mess with it any more.

[Skunberg]

Oh, but I love the holy wars. As long as people are reporting (with or without slant) it's good. If it degrades to pure name calling, that's worthless. The way I see this is, someone had a great idea and some (or most) of the knowledge to develop it into a product. Tried and hasn't got there yet. Decided to charge for continuing efforts. So at this point you buy it as is and don't expect anything more or Buy it even though it won't do what you want, to support it with hopes it will get there someday maybe. I have done this many times with software I really wanted to see become a real product. However I will be watching on the sidelines for this software.

[n8huntsman]

One thing that I noticed when trying to output to controllers is that every time I open LSP, the check marks next to your controllers in the "configure output" screen become unchecked. I have to go in and re-check them every time I open LSP. Check this to see if this is why you did not get any output.

[pmcpa]

I too also had a REG Problem... I think I was one of the first. It was fixed the next day.

If you read the email sent after purchase, is says: "We are very sensitive to your time and our support staff will process your order as soon as possible." I'm not sure anywhere it said instantly, Esp with an upgrade, they have to verify you are allowed an upgrade price

Playback doesn't lag as much, file sizes are MUCH smaller. I haven't started to sequence yet, because I went major RGB this year, and 1.8 just couldn't do that. Now I can start!

[macebobo]

Okay, I stuck a toe in the water, downloaded the trial version and have a report as to what I observed.

Disclosure: I have written an unauthorized enhancement to the Adjustable Preview plug-in for Vixen (http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showthread.php?16389-Moveable-Vixen-Adjustable-Preview). However, I am not involved in any way with any current Vixen development. I am a C# .NET software developer in my job that pays for this habit (Among other things, I do human/computer interface modeling. In laymans terms this means I make the user interface look and work easily for the human.) I have used Vixen for 1 year. I have never used LSP before.

Now on with my review:
I downloaded LSP 2.0 demo and installed it. Opened it up and imported one of my Vixen sequences. 216 channels imported in about 95 seconds. I then opened the same sequence in Vixen to compare side-by-side to ensure the import went okay. This is where I have to give LSP strike one. The tail end of my sequence was at the front, many channels did not import properly, channel colors did not import, channel names did not import and LSP could not find the audio to my sequence even though I have the standard Vixen 2.1 install. See attached Screen shots for examples of channel error. Importing is a basic function and the Vixen file is a simple xml file. I reverse engineered the format in about 35 minutes, so I don't know how LSP has got it so wrong.

Okay, so I try a simpler, shorter sequence. Imported in about 15 seconds. However, still could not find the audio, channels were still fubar, end of sequence was at the beginning, etc.

Next, I create a sequence. Strike two. I have a modern system (Dual core T3400 @ 2.17GHz, 3 GB ram, Windows 7, current patches and all drivers up-to-date - this is how I earn my bread and butter after all) and LSP lagged horribly. I would go to select an area for a fade and it would hiccup on the audio the whole time I was doing so. I saw you could turn off this Audio scrubbing feature and it got a little better, still lagged at an uncomfortable level. I struggled through and got a few seconds of a sequence done. I have a test rig setup right now with 24 channels available. I tried to see what the sequence looked like and could not get ANY output to go to the controller (A Renard SS24.) I checked that I had the outputs configured properly and that they were enabled, both were correct. I then realized that it was only allowing me to configure one of my output (I have two XBee explorers on two com ports and only one could be configured through LSP.)

I did find some of the features in LSP exciting. For example, layers. You can put a set of channels in a layer and work on them independently of all your other channels. I like this. Second feature which I like was the preview. Much, Much better than AP in Vixen. Want a multi- channel arch? A couple of clicks and you're done. Mini trees? Click, drag. Click, drag. Click, drag. - you got 3! Some of the items I could not get oriented the way I wanted, but overall, much more powerful than anything in Vixen 2.1. Okay, I have a preview done now, let's see what it looks like.

Strike three. LSP played back about 3/4 of a second and then locked up! I had saved my sequence, so I forced a shutdown of LSP and reopened and reloaded. This time it played. It is nice to see your preview with more realistic images.

After the third strike, I decided to give up. It looks like LSP will eventually become a fine product, but it suffers from what I call .0 syndrome. I try to avoid 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, etc. releases and wait until the .1 version of each. LSP is too buggy for my liking for the time being. When 2.1 comes out, I'll try it out then and let you know what I found.

Regards -- John

[Wombat]

<Removed by Wombat>

I am deleting my original post. I respect David for finally providing me with what we were entitled to.

Yes there was some stuff said which I feel passionate about. Enough to risk being banned from LSP which I have been :(

I have now been given my money back and a free version of LightShowPro Professional Edition by David.

I have however Refunded this money back to LSP as I believe that all that I was entitled to was a Free version of Professional Version of Light Show Pro V2 edition and he is running a business.

Thank you to those who backed me in this cause.

I still think that Light Show Pro is an Excellent product and wish him all the best in the future with it.

Regards
Wombat


Sent to:
David Johnson
Email:
sales@lightshowpro.com

Total amount:
-$99.00 USD
Fee amount:
$3.67 USD
Net amount:
-$95.33 USD

Date:
18 Aug 2011
Time:
07:57:43 AEST
Status:
Completed

Subject:

You have sent $95.33 USD to David Johnson with PayPal
Note:

Hi David, Thank you for the refund However I cannot accept. I believe that you have a Business to run and feel that the free upgrade to Pro Edition all that I was entitled to. I hope that we can still do business in the future and wish you well. Thank you

[typoagain]

I was able to get some hands on time with a beta tester a couple of weeks ago. i think that you will find that LSP2 is a much better piece fo software.

I also heard they had a problem with upgrades due to a server error when v.2 came out. They had the problem fixed within a few hours.

Personally I was blown away with the new version. I have had several friends who are using it and none of us has had any major problems so far. The learning curve is a bit steep, but that is to be expected with software that does so much.

Don't judge it too quickly. I think that you will be very happy in the long run.

[fasteddy]

I must say that i did a demo on LSP a couple of weeks ago on a old centrino laptop with thousands of channels at the Brisbane mini, LSP performed great even on the basic hardware with thousands of channels. I believe it is a performer now but i do know there are many that already have a bad taste in their mouths from their 1.8 experience and will be very critical of anything they find no matter how small and that can be understandable.
With many of the members here being vixen users i can also understand the high expectations put apon LSP as it is not a free sequencing program like vixen, but currently as vixen stands it really cant do what i want and is not a great program for managing many thousands of RGB channels, Vixen 3 shows a lot of promise but i wonder how ready it will be for this season. Another option is madrix but that will cost 8 x the price of LSP for the same number of channels. There is aslo LOR S3 but thats still not released so its hard to make any comparison to LSP v2. There are other software packages but again they are lacking in comparison to LSP fetaures.
I know im very happy with LSP v2 and know that this year i can be very creative and ill enjoy sequencing with the great tools that LSP v2 provides.

And wombat we have heard your rant for the last 2 days. If you feel your being ripped off then dont buy it and dont use it, no one is forcing you. Its been clearly explained to you on many occassions by me and others.
Anyway its your fault for being too ambitious and needing more than 16 universes, LOL ;)

[Wombat]

[QUOTE=fasteddy;169366

And wombat we have heard your rant for the last 2 days. If you feel your being ripped off then dont buy it and dont use it, no one is forcing you. Its been clearly explained to you on many occassions by me and others.
Anyway its your fault for being too ambitious and needing more than 16 universes, LOL ;)[/QUOTE]

You may have heard it but this was the first time that I have mentioned it on here.

[dirknerkle]

:mrgreen:

Fasteddy's point is well taken, using LSP (or buying it in the first place) is a choice. Sometimes we make good choices, sometimes not so good. But the pricing/upgrade/whatever issue is always a difficult one for consumers to stomach when it changes, but it is most certainly in the manufacturer's domain to determine his pricing. We, as consumers, can in turn decide if we like the pricing or not by supporting the product or purchasing something else. Ultimately the consumer has the power because if nobody buys it at one price, the manufacturer is either forced to (a) change the pricing model, (b) cease manufacturing the product or (c) go out of business.

It's like watching TV: if you don't like the show on one channel, change to something else. If you don't like any of the channels, turn it off. In my case, I'm not going to watch the LSP channel anymore... :lol:

[n8huntsman]

I know there is a steep learning curve. It's frustrating, I know. I was ready to through my computer across the room when I tried 1.8. But I really emplore everyone to spend some time with it. Force yourself to watch all the tutorials, for this version and the previous. Make sure your audio is encoded with 128 kbs and 44100 hz. Audacity is a good free program to do this. Then struggle through creating at least one sequence. I'm sure you will all quickly find that it's not as bad as first impression may lead you to believe. I've completed my second sequence and I'm getting better and faster. I'm not saying it's perfect, but I am learning work arounds for it. You shouldn't have to do this, yes, but I believe the features outweigh the problems.

[mschell]

I'm not here to continue the sequencer wars, but did want to make one point. One of the more mentioned complaints is around importing Vixen sequences. While that's understandable that many folks here want to move their Vixen sequences to LSP without issues, understand that translation from one program to another is not an easy task. There's no guarantee that the Vixen sequence is in a known "good" state, and with the varied versions (2.1, 2.5, etc.), it's quite possible that some of the issue could be due to the actual sequence.

And perhaps, this translation/import issue has been less tested than some of the major features, such as layers and RGB. I know that the import of AL sequences was never as great as I would like, since I had a fair number of those sequences in my collection. I chose to "redo" those sequences and channel layouts from scratch, or at least keeping the timing with the music. I can still use my AL controllers with LSP and have for the last 3 years.

One other note - the 16 universe limit of the advanced version is not based totally on Universe count, but is a 8192 channel limit, I believe. You can have lots more than 16 universes with 8192 channels if you are not using the full 512 channels of a universe. I've segmented my display and sometime use much less than 512 on a given segment. Of course, that is changing this year with lots more RGB.

[macebobo]

I'm not here to continue the sequencer wars, but did want to make one point. One of the more mentioned complaints is around importing Vixen sequences. While that's understandable that many folks here want to move their Vixen sequences to LSP without issues, understand that translation from one program to another is not an easy task. There's no guarantee that the Vixen sequence is in a known "good" state, and with the varied versions (2.1, 2.5, etc.), it's quite possible that some of the issue could be due to the actual sequence.

And perhaps, this translation/import issue has been less tested than some of the major features, such as layers and RGB. I know that the import of AL sequences was never as great as I would like, since I had a fair number of those sequences in my collection. I chose to "redo" those sequences and channel layouts from scratch, or at least keeping the timing with the music. I can still use my AL controllers with LSP and have for the last 3 years.

One other note - the 16 universe limit of the advanced version is not based totally on Universe count, but is a 8192 channel limit, I believe. You can have lots more than 16 universes with 8192 channels if you are not using the full 512 channels of a universe. I've segmented my display and sometime use much less than 512 on a given segment. Of course, that is changing this year with lots more RGB.

These are all good points Mark. If you (or anyone reading this) have David's ear, I would be more than willing to be a crash test dummy for importing Vixen sequences. I can do 2.1 or 2.5, doesn't matter, I know my sequences are in a known good state, etc. I have e-mailed him once through the LSP web site to help test and was not taken up on my offer - which is okay, it is his choice and I hold no ill will towards him or his product. There are things I really like about LSP, but having spent well over 200 hrs on sequences, I am not about to start over with my sequencing. But, I bet the Vixen importers could be potentially won over, at least until Vixen 3.0 ships. Got to love competition, it makes better products. -- John

[dmoore]

I think this other thing that annoys me is that I offered to help test and he declined. In fact several of my email were just ignored. I am concerned that this pattern will not change.

I also suspect that many of the problems I was having with LSP ver 1.8 are still there.

I think if there were understandings of what is occuring "behind the scenes" it would make more sense as to why you did not receive a response.

It really disappoints me when someone makes a statement about the reliability without having fully tested it. I ran my 2010 show in LSP 1.8 with 2,800 channels and I won't kid you that it was hard to work around some of the issues. I personally commited to LSP 2.0 about 40% of the bug reports and while I know it is not a 100% perfect product, it has made MAJOR strides over 1.8 in terms of quality.

Could I get you to simply go to screencast-o-matic.com and do a sreen recording of your issues(s) so that we can document them in the bug tracker so they can be resolved? The complaints just don't get the bugs solved - documenting and reporting them does.

David

[dmoore]

Just as a test last night, I imported a working Vixen sequence, configured the controller, verified with the controller test that it was correct, turned on the outputs and ran the sequence. Nothing worked except the audio. This was exactly the same experience I had with version 1.8, so as far as the end result is concerned, it doesn't appear that much has changed.

Are you willing to either document (screencast-o-matic.com) the issue or let one of us remote in and work with you to resolve the issue?

[dmoore]

One thing that I noticed when trying to output to controllers is that every time I open LSP, the check marks next to your controllers in the "configure output" screen become unchecked. I have to go in and re-check them every time I open LSP. Check this to see if this is why you did not get any output.

For anyone configuring E131, I recommend watching this video:

http://www.vimeo.com/16107148

It shows an alternative method of channel numbering that is easier to wok with than "base 512".

[dmoore]

After the third strike, I decided to give up. It looks like LSP will eventually become a fine product, but it suffers from what I call .0 syndrome. I try to avoid 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, etc. releases and wait until the .1 version of each. LSP is too buggy for my liking for the time being. When 2.1 comes out, I'll try it out then and let you know what I found.

John -

Would you be willing to share your sequence with me so that I may do some additional testing and lodge a bug report for this issue? I did some early testing with vixen sequences and there were issues that were resolved but I, not being a vixen user, had limited "complex" sequences on which to draw.

Thanks,
David

[dmoore]

Here are some how-to sample videos for LSP V2.

Ramping fades, shimmers and twinkles in LSP V2:
http://www.screencast-o-matic.com/watch/cXjDcU3cw

This example shows using basic RGB controllers (3 channel) connected with an Lynx dongle:
http://www.screencast-o-matic.com/watch/cXjDcK3c4

This video covers just moving around the user interface and using the ribbon:
http://www.screencast-o-matic.com/watch/cXjDVA3ck

Here is the second part of using the ribbon video:
http://www.screencast-o-matic.com/watch/cXjDnv3cJ

This video shows how you can manage controllers and elements in the library:
http://www.screencast-o-matic.com/watch/cXjDeY3c9

[budude]

Thanks for these (like your RGB videos) - they should make getting started a bit easier - I'll need all the help I can get...

[macebobo]

John -

Would you be willing to share your sequence with me so that I may do some additional testing and lodge a bug report for this issue? I did some early testing with vixen sequences and there were issues that were resolved but I, not being a vixen user, had limited "complex" sequences on which to draw.

Thanks,
David

PM me your e-mail and I'll send you 4, simple to complex. -- John

[dmoore]

PM me your e-mail and I'll send you 4, simple to complex. -- John

PM Sent. Thanks for chipping in to help improve LSP.

[dmoore]

PM me your e-mail and I'll send you 4, simple to complex. -- John

According to the updated LigthShow Pro bug database, bug #267 which Vixen data was shifted upon import has been fixed and will be in a forth coming free update.

Here is the video of the orginal reported issue:

http://www.screencast-o-matic.com/watch/cXjrYi3b4

[n8huntsman]

The update actually came out last night, and I can confirm that the Vixen imports now appear to be perfect.

[mmulvenna]

The update actually came out last night, and I can confirm that the Vixen imports now appear to be perfect.

Thanks Nate fro confirming.......

[Javo]

I know it's been a while since the last post but I thought I would just see how those that have LSP are liking the results. Continued problems or working well?

[dpitts]

It worked for my 2011 show. I plan on using it for 2012. I will have 5000 RGB channels. 200 DMX

[pmcpa]

worked for my 2011 show... still bugs that need to be addressed....

[n8huntsman]

When 2.0 first came out, it made LSP finally useable, allthough there were some bugs that needed attention. Throughout the last 5 months or so, David has released several updates. The latest is very stable and should make sequencing for next year much smoother.

[boarder3]

Do you think that latest update will stop the glitching cause i will give it another shot problem is i really cant test it till end of year which stinks.

[Javo]

So it seems to work okay with Renard boards? I'm going to have two Ren64xc's this year.

[dpitts]

i had 10 Renard ss24, 1 Ren64xc and 2 Renard SS 16 for 2011 show. Also 4 RenW's.

[n8huntsman]

Boarder, there is a huge learning curve and not everything is as intuitive as it could be as you discovered. This has not changed. However, if you are willing to stick with it, it will get the job done. I'm sure there are a few bugs left, nothing specific that I'm aware of, but most have been ironed out. Some of what you may consider a bug, is actually by design and you just have to get used to it and learn work-arounds. That, I would say, is 75% of the battle. I ran a ren64, ren24, ren8, and an E680 last year. All ran perfect the entire season.

[boarder3]

To be honest i set up LSP for all my channels including rgb. Took 2 weeks off of work and did 2 songs. I learned and liked the software but i came to find out the software does not work properly it glitches. Now i got help from a few other members including yourself. Im not no newbie the software glitches on output. Now if you look in forums you will find about 90 percent of people complain about the same thing. I even found out other member's that say there's works output it to LOR or xlights so it really doesn't work for most people unless your one of the lucky lotto winners. I hate to sound like im sore but i am i paid 250.00 for software that doesnt work and no help from dave once only members helped out. If he ever fixes these issues i will use LSP until than im praying for vixen 3 to be available.

[pmcpa]

I hate to sound like im sore but i am i paid 250.00 for software that doesnt work and no help from dave once only members helped out.

I 1000% agree wit you on this... forum members help as much as they can, but most just say, oh yea, that's been like that forever.... but it never gets fixed, and dave never responds to help tickets.....

[Javo]

I think i'll stick with Vixen based off of feedback I've read. I've been playing with 3.0 but I guess I better start getting familiar with 2.1 so I can make sure to be ready for this year. Thanks for the input guys, much appreciated.

[dirknerkle]

I think i'll stick with Vixen based off of feedback I've read. I've been playing with 3.0 but I guess I better start getting familiar with 2.1 so I can make sure to be ready for this year. Thanks for the input guys, much appreciated.

You won't be disappointed. Vixen 2.1 is a very fine and capable piece of software. It may not be as convenient to use with the mega-rgb-pixel setups, but for anything else, it's top-notch. I'm planning my 2012 display around Vixen 2.1 and will continue to do so for the forseeable future.

[mmulvenna]

I 1000% agree wit you on this... forum members help as much as they can, but most just say, oh yea, that's been like that forever.... but it never gets fixed, and dave never responds to help tickets.....

Border and PMCPA, what specifically are you referring to that does not work? Generalities like this do no good to other users who are trying to evaluate the software.

I can't address "dave never responds to help tickets" but I can say that a most, if not, all of the questions posed that relate to software on the LSP forum get answered. That is not to say that "rants" always get answered.

Yes some users had issues with the scheduler because of extremely large channel counts but users like myself, N8 and others are using it successfully but they still used LSP to do the sequencing for their large channel counts. The lsp scheduler did have memory leaks and also took a while to start the show on the very first iteration. Most if not all memory leaks could be resolved by restarting the scheduler each day and I provided a OS batch file that would do that automatically. The isses with the scheduler were primarily a result of very large channel counts and since this was really the first year of thois high counts there was no good way to test by the beta testers as the hardware was not in place in a timely manner.


Boarder, can you please produce the numbers of users that complaint about the software as opposed to this who like the software so we can put some credibility on your "90 percent of people complain about the same thing" and "it really doesn't work for most people unless your one of the lucky lotto winners" or are you just a disgruntled user who has not taken the proper time to learn the software like other users have? If I recall you took off 2 weeks to lewarn LSP and get your show ready for "news-day". That was not near enough time to learn the software and get a show ready.

I find it very interesting that users will complain about software in a major way yet one hears little about all the issues with the new RGB hardware that happen this past year.

Everyone has a right to their own opinion but please be factual when you present it. Many users on the LSP forum will be more than happy to answer any questions you might have and if your issue is really a bug they will say so. Yes there are there some enhancements I would like to see change added to the the software and I believe LSP is working hard to improve an already great product.

[mschell]

As mentioned previously, I've been running LSP for at least 4 years. It would have been hard to do some of the shows that I've done in those 4 years with anything but LSP, given my hardware mix of controllers, including some commercial ones as well as DIY models.

Yes, support hasn't been as great as most would like. However, I have had tickets responded to. With community support, there have been workarounds found for the major issues, with possibly the exception of the scheduler a few years ago.

I ran over 800 channels last year, including pixels. Could I have done it with Vixen - probably. Would I have been able to do it with Vixen in the short time that I had this past year? - No. The RGB aspect of LSP made it very easy to map patterns and fades across all the RGB elements simply and quickly. Vixen 2.x would have required lots of manual effort. Can it be done? - Yes - just look at AussiePhil's videos.

Vixen 3.0 promises to get much closer to the object orientation that LSP already has. I'm looking at it closely. But just like everyone else, I need to lock into something early on, and stick with it. Why? Because my spouse has offered to help with some of the creative aspects, and I can't ask her to switch horses halfway thru and still expect to get it done. We've already finalized our layout from a hardware perspective.

This year, I fully expect to get to close to the 8192 channel limit that my version of LSP has, so we'll see how it goes. More pixels and other RGB elements mean we can't sequence each pixel or node independently. It has to be object related.

Just my 2 cents.

[boarder3]

First of all i had no problem using the software i created sequences just fine learning curve not a problem. 5 different test computers even core i7 stutter on output. And just a quick search in google came up with this
1. http://diylightanimation.com/index.php?topic=7390.0
read down the page same issue had to export to xlights
There was some on the more on lsp web site but there not thier no more. I know they were there cause i was reading them trying to fix my issue. You helped me alot and purchased rs232 converters and redid my show computer with fresh install of windows than used older lsp than changed to another computer wiped that computer to and tried both versions of lsp. After that used my core i7 system all with same problem glitches on output. other than that did my sequences no problem. Dave just needs to fix that issue im fine with the other little small things that popped up. Again my issue is only the output .

[pmcpa]

Issues, Some output plugins don't work, or have major "issues" that have been known since 1.8 that have never been solved. AL comes to mind. E1.31, flawless. Scheduler has a mind of it's own, crashing, playing back sequences with fades where cuts were, forgetting about ch's, etc. 2 weeks of forum troubleshooting, 2 PC's replacement com chips, swapping out RS485 converters, nothing fixed the issue. These are not vague, these have been posted by many, and they are never addressed by Dave.

I can say, the ONLY time Dave EVER responded was with the 1.8 to 2.0 upgrade, when he had a MAJOR flaw that unlocked the Pro version for the same price as the advanced version... he had a patch out the next day, and even emailed everyone to update.

I wouldn't have an issue if I haven't spent nearly $300 over the last 2 years on LSP hoping that things would get better. When I pay for a product, no matter how cheep or expensive, I expect it to work as advertised, with all the features listed.... not much to ask.

[mmulvenna]

First of all i had no problem using the software i created sequences just fine learning curve not a problem. 5 different test computers even core i7 stutter on output. And just a quick search in google came up with this
1. http://diylightanimation.com/index.php?topic=7390.0
read down the page same issue had to export to xlights
There was some on the more on lsp web site but there not thier no more. I know they were there cause i was reading them trying to fix my issue. You helped me alot and purchased rs232 converters and redid my show computer with fresh install of windows than used older lsp than changed to another computer wiped that computer to and tried both versions of lsp. After that used my core i7 system all with same problem glitches on output. other than that did my sequences no problem. Dave just needs to fix that issue im fine with the other little small things that popped up. Again my issue is only the output .

What do you mean by "glitches on output"? What protocol, what kind of controllers, how many channels? Can you be more specific?

[mmulvenna]

Issues, Some output plugins don't work, or have major "issues" that have been known since 1.8 that have never been solved. AL comes to mind. E1.31, flawless. Scheduler has a mind of it's own, crashing, playing back sequences with fades where cuts were, forgetting about ch's, etc. 2 weeks of forum troubleshooting, 2 PC's replacement com chips, swapping out RS485 converters, nothing fixed the issue. These are not vague, these have been posted by many, and they are never addressed by Dave.

I can say, the ONLY time Dave EVER responded was with the 1.8 to 2.0 upgrade, when he had a MAJOR flaw that unlocked the Pro version for the same price as the advanced version... he had a patch out the next day, and even emailed everyone to update.

I wouldn't have an issue if I haven't spent nearly $300 over the last 2 years on LSP hoping that things would get better. When I pay for a product, no matter how cheep or expensive, I expect it to work as advertised, with all the features listed.... not much to ask.

I have used AL controllers since purchasing LSP, indeed that is why I bought it and have had no problems with it at all.

This is a link to a post in the LSP forum where you said that you resolved the AL issues. http://www.lightshowpro.com/lightshow-support/2291-no-al-output-help-4.html#post13660. Why do you continue to say that LSP has a problem with the AL plugin?

As I stated in a previous post the scheduler did have issues for users with a high channel count and yes there were a number of users who ended up using another piece of software to run the show after it was created by the LSP sequencer and I agree that should not have happened.

[pmcpa]

I have used AL controllers since purchasing LSP, indeed that is why I bought it and have had no problems with it at all.


This is unfortunately the attitude across the LSP users forum, and from David when he ignores Tickets, posts, and emails... I don't have a problem, must be you.


Don't get me wrong, as soon as scheduler can become as rock solid as the sequencer (and the sequencer in 2.0 is almost perfect), then everything would be perfect. David comes off much like Apple, if we ignore the issue, maybe it will go away until I quietly patch it. I was dark for a week and a half, with only troubleshooting help from you (And I thank you for it), but in the end, the unacknowledged faulty scheduler is what I think did me in.... but I had no idea of the Known Issues, because they aren't posted, or acknowledged.

RE: output issues:
I stopped posting on the LSP board once I realized David just didn't care about AL users. Things would sequence and playback fine in the sequencer, put them into the scheduler, and it would do what ever it wanted, and I have confirmed this with other AL users that gave up on LSP a while ago, never posted to the forum, but contacted David directly to resolve the issues quietly, but never heard back.

Re Known issues:
Even you acknowledge, you have to go into the output plugin, set the Com port, and as soon as you save it, in the output window, it reads "NOT CONFIGURED." This bug has been a part of LSP since 1.8

Again, I wish LSP was perfect, and if the scheduler and output issues are resolved (and I've seen some post about E1.31 output issues, I don't happen to have any issues there) without having to pay for an upgrade, I will sing it's parses from the rafters. David is almost there, and I hope he gets all the way there.

[boarder3]

You said it perfect

[fasteddy]

Sequencing software these days has become very complex these days, a 256 channel display 2 years ago was considered complex to sequence. Now we have people sequencing 10000 channels plus. Now for me i realize this isnt going to be straight forward journey as the leap in requirements has out stripped the processing power of the traditional way of sequencing. To put it in mathematical terms if I have a 256 channel sequence 2 minutes long with 1/10 intervals then the data points within that sequence are 120sec x 10 = 1200 x 256 = 307200 different data points, now if i have a 5000 channel sequence the data processing i need is now 120 x10 =1200 x 5000 = 6000000. That is a large increase in data processing and when i sequence i keep this in mind.
I always expect that things may not go as smooth as we wish due to fact that a few of us are pushing the software limits, being on the edge is always full of dangers. I expect this year the software will improve further again as more users give feedback as bugs are found. But if the software was so simple then i wonder why LOR S3 took so long to be released and it still has issues and is less advanced in its support. Vixen 2.5 even has issues for some users and Vixen 3 progress is not going ahead as quick as first planned due to the complexaties of creating sequencing software. I do wonder what issues will happen when its truely tested in 2012 and im sure there will be some disspointed people.
The software has become complex, with complexity comes the risk of more bugs getting through the beta stage as there is a lot more to program and test. We dont pay high prices for the software we get compared to the cost of owning madrix and the market size isnt very large. The community is truely blessed to have guys willing to put in the time and effort to create Vixen and then offer it for free but with free comes a reduced need to compete in the market place and this is why we are only now seeing vixen start to get true RGB support.

I was able to use LSP with success, yes there where are couple of work arounds that i needed but nothing major. Because LSP wasnt a good experience for you doesnt mean that it isnt for many others and thats is always the true fact with any software, the ratios do change though. But no affordable software is perfect in this hobby and you have every right to feel ripped off if you payed for software that didnt perform as advertised.
I also had major electrical interferance issues that i could have easily put down to bad output from the software and at one stage thats what i thought, but in the end it was more to do with the layout of my design.
It does sadden me when people have difficulties getting their display to run but its no suprprise because sequencing these days with thousands of channels is no easy walk in the park, but that walk is getting easier with each year. 2011 was much easier than 2010 due to some advances in the software and my sequencing skills improving with LSP
In the end some may have had major issues but many others had very succesful shows using LSP V2, i fall in the I had a succesful show side.

It may sound like a lot of excuses but i would rather have something i can work with than have nothing at all.

[pmcpa]

Never said it was simple, never expected it to be flawless, but when you drop a couple hundred on software, you do expect flaws to be corrected.... Some of us have found this not to be the case, even after paying for the 2.0 upgrade we were told by many would solve all of our problems.

I do hope it all works out, but I can tell you, if it comes around again in the fall that LSP is fixed, pay for this upgrade, I won't go for it, cause the flaws in 1.8 were never fixed, and 2.0 still has flaws.

If it comes out, hey, here's the fix for all the issues, no charge, great, no problem!

When you pay for something, you kinda expect it to work (when you pay $200 for windows 7, you do expect it to work)

[charleskerr]

This is shades of the old Ford/Chevy debates of the 60's. Those that like LSP, like it. It is always difficult to understand why others dislike something that works for them (or that they like). Same with those that dislike it.
Needless to say, not everyone has the same value system, and each is free to have their opinion and they don't even have to substantiate it (it is their opinion and their money after all, both good and bad).

At this point, not a lot of new information, but cheerleading for both sides. Some thought for the money, and the issues, it wasn't a great value (and some are willing to extend the time for consideration to see how updates are handle). Others, for the features, and their experience, thought it was a good value.
Is anything new really being said?

[fasteddy]

Thats always the issue with these threads, is that they just become a cheerleading or bagging excercise and not much is ever really gained from it

[mmulvenna]

This is unfortunately the attitude across the LSP users forum, and from David when he ignores Tickets, posts, and emails... I don't have a problem, must be you.


Re Known issues:
Even you acknowledge, you have to go into the output plugin, set the Com port, and as soon as you save it, in the output window, it reads "NOT CONFIGURED." This bug has been a part of LSP since 1.8

Again, I wish LSP was perfect, and if the scheduler and output issues are resolved (and I've seen some post about E1.31 output issues, I don't happen to have any issues there) without having to pay for an upgrade, I will sing it's parses from the rafters. David is almost there, and I hope he gets all the way there.

Yes I do acknowledge that hat you have to configure the output plugin, how is that a bug. Once you set the com port speed and all the rest of the configuration setting IT DOES WORK. SO OT MUST BE YOUR PROBLEM. YOU ADMITTED IT IN TH LINK THAT I GAVE ABOVE. I am tired of you talking down LSP when you have already admitted that it was your issue. Why cant you own up to that here.

I agree that there were some issues with the scheduler for large channel counts as I have said countless times but there is NO ISSUE that I am aware of with the AL plugin. (If you have it configured properly).

You, border and others continue to trash a good but not perfect piece of software with posting any facts regarding your comments. You have never seen me or others post anything negative about any other sequencing software and you never will.

I wish you luck with whatever software you choose. Wish you were closer so you could see with your own eyes that it does work perfectly in my environment with the one exception of a memory leak that I posted earlier, (and posted a minor work around to correct that in most cases.)

As for me having the "unfortunate the attitude across the LSP users forum......I don't have a problem, must be you", you have no idea how many users I have helped thru the learning curve in forum posts, phone calls, and yes a ton of on-line sessions so I TOTALLY resent you inferring that I have that issue.

In the case of the AL plugin (as long as you are not using some antiquated version) I am not inferring anything, it does indeed work so it must be you and that is not an inference but a factual statement.

Have a great year........

[mmulvenna]

cause the flaws in 1.8 were never fixed, and 2.0 still has flaws."


Specifically, what was not fixed so I can test it to confirm or deny your allegations?

[pmcpa]

Mike, your taking this thread in a nasty direction, that I, nore anyone else wanted. I'm done here, as I expect this thread to be locked soon. I have presented my site of the story, I have spoken to others, and there are other threads on the LSP threads for AL and other outputs, and you always respond with "I have 6 AL controllers connected viz a USB to RS485 dongle and they work perfectly."

Yes, my initial issue of not being able to talk to the controllers was resolved, after multiple issues, that in the end boiled down to a bad install of LSP, but they continued on a new pc and new install, with scheduler having a mind of it's own. I don't think that 128ch's is high, so I don't think I qualify for the scheduler having issues with high ch counts.

I'm sorry your taking this personally Mike, but that is not the way it is meant. You clearly take LSP almost as your own, witch I wish it was, you have the passion and the drive to get things done. I have thanked you for you help multiple times, but I guess that wasn't enough, I guess I should have mulled up about my experiences, and frustrations with LSP to myself rather then answering questions honestly. You even have 2000 more posts on the LSP forum then David, the developer does, so it's very clear you are passionate about LSP, and that is good.

As a parting note, things that are a bug from 1.8 to 2.0, I listed above, but here's a big one, a quote from you: "take all effects out of column 1"

I have stated a few times, I hope LSP is fixed, I hope David addresses everything listed in the forum, and I hope that the fixes for these things will be included in my original purchase of 1.7 and the upgrade to 2.0. If they are, then I'm joining the LSP support squad... until then, I have to be honest

[mschell]

I'm not here to defend LSP or knock it. I can only relate my experience with it. Has the support experience been good? - No, it hasn't, and while Mike M has done a great job in trying to help users, it would be nice to see David in the forums every so often responding to issues.

However, I can also say that if we were talking about Vixen, we wouldn't get such a heated exchange over the software. Vixen isn't perfect, but because it's free, people will forgive some of it's faults.

I also believe Vixen has a fairly steep learning curve if you've never used it before, and documentation for the first time user is somewhat hard to find when you start out.

Yes, software that we pay for is held to a higher standard, and it should be. But let's not totally trash LSP because it didn't work for some folks

[P. Short]

This thread is getting to be a bit annoying...and seemingly pointless lately.

[fasteddy]

As a parting note, things that are a bug from 1.8 to 2.0, I listed above, but here's a big one, a quote from you: "take all effects out of column 1"


Not really a show stopper in any way, cant see why that such a big issue for you

[n8huntsman]

I think we all need to put LSP into perspective. As is everything in this hobby, it fills a very small niche of the population. As such, a person can not survive, financially, solely on this industry alone. David is not making a fortune off of us. He is simply being compensated for spending every bit of free time that he has while away from his day job. We have all been a bit spoiled by KC and Vixen. With the amount of work KC has put into it, he deserves, and the software is worth, several hundred dollars. I don't think we could expect anyone to put that kind of work into something without getting something out of it. So when doing comparisons, I don't think it's free to look at Vixen as free. It's just insane that it is. Besides, compared to the rest of our displays, $200 is nothing. I think we should look at the price of LSP, more as a donation to David for his efforts, not as the cost of a perfect piece of commercial software. It's a donation that I would gladly make to anyone has has made that kind of effort towards bettering our hobby.
I should add, I wish DIYC would embrace LSP a little bit more. We're all in this hobby together and this is not a competition between different pieces of software. The more users it gains, the better the user support will be. When someone has a Vixen question, it's answered by the users, not KC.

[charleskerr]

I think we all need to put LSP into perspective. As is everything in this hobby, it fills a very small niche of the population. As such, a person can not survive, financially, solely on this industry alone. David is not making a fortune off of us. He is simply being compensated for spending every bit of free time that he has while away from his day job. We have all been a bit spoiled by KC and Vixen. With the amount of work KC has put into it, he deserves, and the software is worth, several hundred dollars. I don't think we could expect anyone to put that kind of work into something without getting something out of it. So when doing comparisons, I don't think it's free to look at Vixen as free. It's just insane that it is. Besides, compared to the rest of our displays, $200 is nothing. I think we should look at the price of LSP, more as a donation to David for his efforts, not as the cost of a perfect piece of commercial software. It's a donation that I would gladly make to anyone has has made that kind of effort towards bettering our hobby.


At this point, I think this thread is totally off topic. It is up to each to determine the value of some software, and what one may thing versus another is going to vary. LSP is a product, and the cost is a cost for services, it is in no stretch of the definition a donation. If one believes it is a good value, that is fine. If thinking it as a donation makes it better for someone to consider it a good value, that is fine as well. Just as it is equally valid for one to not consider it that way, nor consider it a good value. Discussing value is relatively fruitful, for each has their own value system, and it will vary.

This thread is now to the point of saying: There are those who think LSP is a good value, and there are those who do not.
I don't think thread will "convert" anyone, to either side, so each should be content with their assessment (regardless of which way it is), and let it go. Championing the cause at this point, hasn't been fruitful, as the last few posts have indicated (there has been no change in assessment by either side stated).

[dpitts]

This thread has been about the release of LSP and not off topic. I think we can discuss pros and cons of a product amongst ourselves without closing the thread. I personally like to hear others opinions of a product. So far we have found out that indeed there was a problem with the scheduler that will be addressed hopefully before Christmas. We learned that some users had problems installing the product but in the end were successful and were able to use sequencer and claimed it worked great. The sequencer in my opinion is well worth the money. We also found that LSP has great forum members that spend countless hours helping others. Also I might add there was a release in January that was intended to fix many problems.