Whats the distance?

[tex68]

Hello, been reading forums and have read vague references' of distance between pc to boards(595) and boards to ssrs' Does anyone know what if any is the max distance from the pc to the boards and from the boards to the ssr? wanting to run cat-5 over 200 feet from boards to ssr will this work? THANKS

[Matt]

From the boards to the SSR, I believe someone has tested it to work with over 1000' of cable. From the computer to the board, it really depends on your computer and the amount of electrical noise in the environment, but it shouldn't usually be more than a few feet without a transmitter/receiver line driver system.

-Matt

[Macrosill]

Tex,

I would suggest you keep the cable length from the controlling pc to the 595 board as short as possible. I have heard of problems coming into the picture at distances around 60-70 feet. I believe some of those issues were resolved with the use of doubling up the the conductors/cable and/or installing line drivers. In short I would keep the cable length as short as possible, atleast under 15-20 feet.

As far as the controller to ssr cable length I know of a test utilizing just under 800 feet of cat 5 that was successful. So there seems to be no reasonable limitation here.

Now you may be asking why the huge difference in allowable cable lengths? Well the short answer is that the pc to 595 cable carries data signals that degrade quickly over distance. The controller to ssr cables only carry 5v electrical current. The ssrs only care to see enough voltage to turn on so even though there is voltage drop at those distances the ssr is still able to function.

Notice in the above I kept referring to cable length and not distance between 2 pieces of hardware. The reason is because we need to work with the actual length of cable used, not the physical distance between 2 boxes. In some instances you may need to run cable up through a window and back down using 10 feet of cable but the boxes are only 3 feet away from each other. Or you may run a cable neatly around some bushes instead of through them, this may use up more cable.

One other point to remember is that the above limits of pc to controller cable lengths are for the 595 based systems. Other systems out there, such as the Renard and DMX, will have different limitations.

So you will have no problem running 200 feet of cat 5 between your controller and ssrs.

[ErnieHorning]

I was thinking about this problem today and had I not already gotten heavily involved with the Renard type of controller, or I would test this out with a little more enthusiasm.

So we know that SSR’s work great at long distances. Why not put opto-darlington transistors on the ‘595 board and drive the LED remotely. The power supply would need to be on the ‘595 and a small board on the parallel port that could sink the LED current. The best would probably be a ULN2803.

Just a thought. :?

[Mudsculpter]

Hmmm,.. that kinda worries me. I just finished building my 64 channel megatree controller unit and was expecting to put it in the bushes by the megatree display next to the street which is about 80 ft from where I plan to locate my computer in the garage.

On another note, I plan to run the 5v through the cat5 to power the board. Last I heard it was OK to do that but I have been searching the old archives to find out more and stumbled across something that indicated that it was not wise to run power through the data cable. Any thoughts?

[ErnieHorning]

It’s OK to run low voltage (30 volts DC or less) through the data cable. What you remember was actually someone asking if they could send 120 VAC through a CAT5 cable and of coarse the answer was no. This mostly has to do with the insulation properties and its ability to prevent an electrical problem or hazard.

[Macrosill]

Mud,
Are you referring to placing a 595 controller 80 feet from the controlling pc? If so then there are 2 ways that I know of to tame the beast, so to speak. The 1st is to utilize a line driver. The 2nd way is to double up your conductors to lower the resistance. Basically instead of using 1 cat 5 conductor for any one pin use 2 in parallel, thus cutting the resistance in half.

Good luck,

[Mudsculpter]

How would I get/make one of the line drivers? by the way I am using the stranded type cat5 if that makes a difference.

[Macrosill]

http://computerchristmas.com/?link=how_to&HowToId=30

[Mudsculpter]

thanks ill look into it

[BillAd]

Mudsculpter,

If you have not been following the discussion on the Renard to 595 converter then you should take a look as it should solve any distance concerns (http://www.christmasinshirley.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=120). This effort reminds me of the lens added to the Hubble telescope to correct it's vision - ; the 595 Hubble? :lol:

Also you may wish to test the distance with your system. Last year I ran a 64 channel 595 combo with a distance of 120+ feet from computer to 595 logic board. For stable operation I needed to drop the supply voltage to around 4.5 volts but otherwise there were no other changes.

Bill

[Mudsculpter]

BillAd,

I am very interested in the converter board and have been following the discussion somewhat. I will be at the ready when the project moves forward to include some testing.

[spike]

Last year I ran about 100 feet between comp. and boards.
It worked fine.

[wjohn]

Mudsculpter,

I For stable operation I needed to drop the supply voltage to around 5.5 volts but otherwise there were no other changes.

Bill

Bill, is that a mistype. 4.5?

[BillAd]

wjohn,

My bad. I remember I needed to drop about 1/2 volt and in haste was thinking the supply voltage was 6. Your math is correct I dropped the voltage to a tad above 4.5. Thanks, I edited the original in case to help reduce confusion.

Bill

[Mudsculpter]

I just had a successful test of 100' from computer to 595 with 5v powered through cat5. So far no hiccups. I can move on...

[Macrosill]

stranded or solid conductors? RJ45 connectors or other type, soldered directly to the board? Any live extension cords(utilizing power) crossing over or running alongside the cat 5?

Just trying to figure out all the variables like a real world utilization through a display.

[nathank]

I used the line driver concept which has tested out well. Has anyone else used line drivers?

[Mudsculpter]

stranded or solid conductors? RJ45 connectors or other type, soldered directly to the board? Any live extension cords(utilizing power) crossing over or running alongside the cat 5?

Just trying to figure out all the variables like a real world utilization through a display.

Wow,.. sorry I didn't answer that sooner I didn't get a tickler.

I have stranded cat5 using the female on board rj45 connector option. It does work at that distance alone although I have not tried to run an extension cord alongside it .I will have to do that next.

I do know that at 100' distance using my power pass cable setup for the Ren-C/595 combo is flaky. I have gotten it to work inside the house from my office computer running cat5 all over the house as a test but when I try to use my show computer, that distance cannot be managed. It seems that the ZC signal and +5v need to be shielded from each other to get reliable results.

[karaokekarnival]

I currently have a 595 running, I plan to add a grinch but I would like to locate the controller located at the base of a mega tree to make the hook-up easier.
How long can the cable between controllers be?
I am talking about 120 feet or so.

thanks
charles

[nathank]

To be safe, I would recommend using a line driver/receiver combination which gives you virtually umlimited distance so long as you put a signal repeater where ever it may be required.