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View Full Version : Looking for DC Renard controller or DMX options



n8huntsman
03-09-2011, 11:46 PM
I've got a ren64 for my yard and a ren8 for my neighbor two houses over. He has decided that he wants to get some of the "dumb" RGB's for his show this year. To avoid having to run a Renard line and a DMX line all the way over to his house, the way I see it, I have two general options. Change my Ren 64 to DMX, change his Ren 8 to DMX, and daisy chain some DMX RGB controllers to that, OR find a way of using, maybe a REN24LV??? with some DC SSR's??? to control his RGB's. If there are some options I'm missing or any insight, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks

Imperialkid
03-09-2011, 11:55 PM
You can also use a Ren48LSD. It was designed for Franks super strips, but it can run on other voltages as well. Also with the Ren48, there is no need for external SSRs. I am planning on using 2 Ren48LSD to run RGB strip for arches. There was a group buy that just closed for the Ren48LSD ... maybe you can get in on it late. Dlovely ran the buy.

Jeremy

n8huntsman
03-10-2011, 12:11 AM
Whats the amp rating one the LSD? I can't find it in the wiki. The RGB's claim to be .3 watts (.1 watts per color) He will be running about 500 of these on the eaves (250 on the top eaves and 250 on the bottom eaves.) powering them in the middle would make 4 strings of 125. Anyone know if you would have to reinject power on these? There are 3 wires to carry the power as opposed to one on the pixel nodes, but I guess there is still only 1 ground so you may still be limited on string length? If reinjection is needed, the SSR's might come in handy. Just thinking out loud.

chelmuth
03-10-2011, 12:21 AM
What voltage?

Imperialkid
03-10-2011, 12:32 AM
There is another thread where much of the power / current capabilities are being discussed and the board's designer has chimed in as well. You will find it here. (http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showthread.php?15272-Newbie-Questions-for...)

ctmal
03-10-2011, 12:52 AM
If you're able to etch your own boards this (http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showthread.php?10975-Yet-another-Renard-DC-Concept) is what I used last year for all of my Halloween stuff. It will only work for low amp stuff though so you'd have look into that.

Depending on how much your neighbor is planning on expanding you might want to consider using another Ren64 and use DC ssr's where you need them and AC ssr's where you need them. Keep in mind that if you don't want the expense of the entire Ren64 board you can just populate the parts for what you are using.

n8huntsman
03-10-2011, 01:18 AM
Most likely 5v like these:
http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/701799/209889132-314089657/12mm-diameter-Through-hole-LED-channel-letter-DC5V-input-RGB-waterproof-0-3W-120degree-beam-angle.html

What voltage?

chelmuth
03-10-2011, 08:59 AM
Ok.. Those appear to be standard 20ma RGB LED's. Here's my .02 and Budude can verify my math.

The Ren48LSD uses MPS2222AG to drive the outputs, which is rated to 600ma, but I would only ever recommend using MAX 400ma. as each of the DC Input traces are only rated at 12A. So full on 400ma X 24 (Half the board) = 9.6 Amps. Keeps a Nice Safety Buffer.

This being said there are 2 options as far as wiring the LEDs to the Board.

1. Each RJ45 get's wired to a string of 20LED's. Leaving 1 un-used channel every 4. Cutting your Input amps to 400ma x 18 = 7.2 Amps. Even bigger safety buffer. So each half of the board would handle 120LED's. So if you could get away with 240LEDs on each set of eves you could use 1 Ren48LSD per eve..

2. Create some "special" wiring to use all channels of each output. Going back to 9.6amps per side of the board. Still a nice safety buffer. This would allow for 8 strings of 20LED per half. Giving you 320LED's per board. Still would take 2 boards but maybe you find you need more LED's depending on what you're actually eve length and bulb spacing is.

Only other consideration is what kind of 5v power supply you can get your hands on. Probably looking at 4 x 5v12A supplies or one 5v45-50A supply.

This would give you the ability to do some LARGE chases or differently blinking effects as you'd have 24-32 individually controlled strings..

P. Short
03-10-2011, 01:53 PM
CHelmuth:

If your option 2 is to tie many of the Ren48LSD outputs together, I would be a bit leery. There is nothing to guarantee that the output current will be equally shared among the transistors, so some of the transistors may end up overloaded and then failing.

chelmuth
03-10-2011, 10:24 PM
No it wasn't to tie the outputs together.. it was to say make a converter cable sort of.. so that you could use ALL channels of the controller..

Option 1 was one cat5 per string off the controller.. using 1-3 and skipping 4.. 5-7 skipping 8..

Second option was make a cable that takes 1-3 to string one.. 4-6 to string two.. 7-9 to string 3.. etc.. not tying lines together just using ALL the channels..

smartalec
03-11-2011, 03:17 AM
i just looked up the datasheet for the mps2222, an it's saying its 800ma not 600ma
or are you's saying 600ma cause of the size of the tracks?
thanks

chelmuth
03-11-2011, 08:09 AM
I was saying 600ma because that's what the last description I read was (pulled from the LSD group buy info) .. but I was saying 400ma MAX because of the size of the traces on the input leads...

dlovely
03-11-2011, 09:13 AM
i just looked up the datasheet for the mps2222, an it's saying its 800ma not 600ma
or are you's saying 600ma cause of the size of the tracks?
thanks

Hrm, Am I reading it wrong, I still see 600mAdc. Data Sheet (http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/MPS2222-D.PDF). Mouser (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/ON-Semiconductor/MPS2222AG/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtvtNzZ3W%252bLwDFLbhmxBhTpPvdcBOwIjj Q%3d). Both reference 600mA or 0.6A.

chelmuth
03-11-2011, 09:24 AM
Wow.. I don't even know where i got 650ma.. Dave's right. 600ma.. Edited previous posts to correct.. My only excuse is it was late or early. :)

smartalec
03-11-2011, 09:40 AM
sorry about that,
I was looking at the 2N2222A datasheet, same spec's but 800ma

Skunberg
03-11-2011, 09:53 AM
I've got a ren64 for my yard and a ren8 for my neighbor two houses over. He has decided that he wants to get some of the "dumb" RGB's for his show this year. To avoid having to run a Renard line and a DMX line all the way over to his house, the way I see it, I have two general options. Change my Ren 64 to DMX, change his Ren 8 to DMX, and daisy chain some DMX RGB controllers to that, OR find a way of using, maybe a REN24LV??? with some DC SSR's??? to control his RGB's. If there are some options I'm missing or any insight, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks
If you stay with Renard you could use the RenW (wireless) and not have to run any cable across the two neighbors yards. The Ren24LV (or other controller without triacs) with DCSSRs or the Ren48LSD will run the RGBs

Imperialkid
03-11-2011, 11:33 AM
If your option 2 is to tie many of the Ren48LSD outputs together, I would be a bit leery. There is nothing to guarantee that the output current will be equally shared among the transistors, so some of the transistors may end up overloaded and then failing.

Quick question about this. Are the V+ all bussed? For use with RGB, are you saying it is not wise to tie together V+? I was planning on using short cat5s from the board to euro terminal strips. I was going to place the cat5 output pins 1, 3, and 5 (V+) together into the first slot on the terminal strip, and then cat5 output pins 2, 4, and 6 into slots 2, 3, and 4 on the terminal strip. Then the first 4 slots on the opposing side of the terminal strip would be:
1 2 3 4
V+ R-Gnd G-Gnd B-Gnd

From there, I was going to run 20/4, 18/4, or wire 2 strips with 1 run of cat5 cable to and soldered onto the RGB strips. If this is not wise, I may have to rethink this.

Another option is to just run the cat5 cables from the board and solder them directly to the strips. I found a table online that said 24 gauge wire is capable of 55' runs at 12V with <500mA, but that could get real messy on the other end trying to hook up multiple RGB strips with 3 channels to different 4 channel cat5 cables. ... complete newb, so any guidance is extremely appreciated.

Jeremy

dlovely
03-11-2011, 11:44 AM
Quick question about this. Are the V+ all bussed? For use with RGB, are you saying it is not wise to tie together V+? I was planning on using short cat5s from the board to euro terminal strips. I was going to place the cat5 output pins 1, 3, and 5 (V+) together into the first slot on the terminal strip, and then cat5 output pins 2, 4, and 6 into slots 2, 3, and 4 on the terminal strip. Then the first 4 slots on the opposing side of the terminal strip would be:
1 2 3 4
V+ R-Gnd G-Gnd B-Gnd

From there, I was going to run 20/4, 18/4, or wire 2 strips with 1 run of cat5 cable to and soldered onto the RGB strips. If this is not wise, I may have to rethink this.

Another option is to just run the cat5 cables from the board and solder them directly to the strips. I found a table online that said 24 gauge wire is capable of 55' runs at 12V with <500mA, but that could get real messy on the other end trying to hook up multiple RGB strips with 3 channels to different 4 channel cat5 cables. ... complete newb, so any guidance is extremely appreciated.

Jeremy

What we talked about will work for you still. What he thought Cory was saying was to take the outputs of several transistors and tie them into 1 'monster' output. That is not recommended.

Imperialkid
03-11-2011, 11:46 AM
Awesome ... I just got a little nervous for a second :)

Jeremy

n8huntsman
03-11-2011, 12:50 PM
What is the issue with long RGB strings? Voltage drop, or too much current in the thin wires? If it's just voltage drop, I can run some tests to see what the limits are. If it's current though, I wouldn't want to do this because I'd ruin my lights.

chelmuth
03-11-2011, 01:05 PM
Not voltage drop as much as the current. the boards we're talking about are only capable of 400ma per channel. that's a limitation of the board design characteristics.. plus I wouldn't want to run much current through those little wires anyway..