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miniboyink
02-12-2011, 11:02 PM
Hello everyone. Some of you may know me from my Holiday Road project; 14 houses and 250,000 LEDs and six huge LED video screens all synchronized to music. Check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4J4xVOnkcSw to see a clip.

Every year I try add new technologies to make the show even more exciting. So two years ago I created a production company called Computerized Lighting Productions so I could get event insurance and buy products at wholesale.

As I started venturing into new grounds, I started have people ask me where to get some the products I use like the video screens, lasers, control units, etc. So I decided to expand CLP and start manufacturing and selling some of the products I use. In fact some of my customers are Disney World, Pacific Science Center, and various night clubs and bands all over the world.

This year I decided I wanted to add more RGB items to my display. I really like the snow tubes that come out in the last two years, but it always disappointed me that all of them are a single color and pattern. So this year I decided to manufacture a show tubes that is DMX controlled and are capable of displaying 16.7 million colors. Each tube has 64 LEDs (32 per side) and take 48 DMX channels (16 Red, 16 Green, 16 Blue).

But as all of know that many channels can be a nightmare to sequence. To get around this problem I'm shipping them with MADRIX. This will allow you to create extremely elaborate effects with no sequencing in LOR or LSP (or any other package that supports DMX). Within those packages you only need a single DMX channel to control MADRIX and then MADRIX will do all the mapping and effects generation for you.

See the two clips below and please give me some feedback. I also will be coming out with a DMX light bar that can create a matrix grid (see a video clip at CLP web site).

Everything I sell I use in my own display. And my prices are extremely good. BTW all of the profits from CLP fund the Holiday Road project. This show is used to raise money for local charities and in 5 years has raised over $120,000.

Pricing is at https://www.computerizedlighting.com/SnowVision-Snow-Tubes_c_23.html

Any feedback good or bad wold be helpful. Also if you do like them and want some you can use coupon PCSALE and it will give you an additional 10% off the the Pre Sale price.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIZVLtDqWo0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO7bRxDiMoc

mrpackethead
02-12-2011, 11:49 PM
Wow your snow tubes look like my meteor tubes.. IN fact scarily like them. 64 leds, 32 each side... Someone in china must be copying your design.


http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/181690_10150102568512661_645277660_6123967_6514675 _n.jpg

chelmuth
02-13-2011, 12:05 AM
MPH Where did you get the cat and is it DMX or Renard? LOL

mrpackethead
02-13-2011, 12:18 AM
THe cat came from the SPCA, its neither DMX nor Renard, and sorry its not for sale.

However meteor tubes are; I'm amazed how closely these meteor tubes look compared to the "snow-tubes" above.. They look even better when you've actually got some, and not just got a picture of them. i got 100 from our chinese supplier as a sample, Had some pretty interesting issues with them and they need some signficant rework with both the construction and design.. not impossible, but not yet ready for market. I'll be using these 100 tubes in a exhibition garden in the starlight marquee at the EIFS ( www.ellislieflowershow.co.nz ) 2011 garden show.

chelmuth
02-13-2011, 12:21 AM
http://www.ellerslieflowershow.co.nz/???

mrpackethead
02-13-2011, 12:37 AM
yup the flower show.. I've got an exhibition garden in a blacked out marquee, and i'm sticking in 100 meteor tubes, and 12000 pixels of RGB nodes... can't wait to post some videos.

miniboyink
02-13-2011, 02:22 AM
Wow your snow tubes look like my meteor tubes.. IN fact scarily like them. 64 leds, 32 each side... Someone in china must be copying your design.]

I know of the manufacture that makes a similar product. The outer casing is very similar except I had mine designed to have a pressure release to prevent condensation in the tube. Also I have two ways I can drive mine. DMX or through the same DVI receiver card that I use on my video curtains. I also use the brighter SMD 5050 LEDs.

To the best of my knowledge most of the DMX tubes are fairly similar, and most of the use the same parts. But I do know I'm very picky and went through three revision before I accepted the final design. I also warranty them for 1 year. It fails, I replace it.

On a side note, wow 1,000,000 RGB elements! Can't wait to see that! Sounds very cool.

mrpackethead
02-13-2011, 02:32 AM
How many do you actually have in hand right now, and can you show us some pictures of them close up? the thing that confuses me is this; I saw this in your video;


http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/182211_10150103157287661_645277660_6132264_3205739 _n.jpg

and this is a picture that our factory in china has got on the pdf that they sent me a few months ago..

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/168352_10150103156712661_645277660_6132254_7631933 _n.jpg

Its amazing that when copied, they would even copy the products brochure and and same graphics?

miniboyink
02-13-2011, 02:52 AM
How many do you actually have in hand right now, and can you show us some pictures of them close up?

I have 20 of the approved final prototype. I have sent multiple sets to various people like Fabian "The LED Killer" Gordon for independent review and opinions. If you are running a major display here in the United States and want to review them first let me know and when one of the sets come back in I get a set of 3-4 out to you. I have 400 units coming in the first week of March. Also all of the video in the promo clip was taken by me using the final tubes.

http://www.showvisionled.com/snowvision/IMG_0208.jpg

mrpackethead
02-13-2011, 03:01 AM
close up.... close up... in particular could you show me a shot about 300mm in from the cable end?

miniboyink
02-13-2011, 03:07 AM
Its amazing that when copied, they would even copy the products brochure and and same graphics?

Wow apparently I rubbed you the wrong way. Sorry about that. I use a combination of two manufactures. LEDWALKER for some of the parts (the ones pictured) and Huasun Optoelectronics for driver circuits and controller cards, the same company that I use for manufacturing my video curtains. Hows that for upfront? I worked with both several months until I got a product that I liked. Same pic, yes. Used with permission, yes. Same product 100%, no. Copied, no.

Do you have to buy from me? No. Do I stand behind everything I sell, you bet. And anyone that knows me will tell you that is true. If I offended you in some way, I'm sorry.

And if you feel I misrepresented the product, have the thread removed with my blessing. I have a product line, I have manufactures who make products for me for my brand. Could they be similar to others, sure. It no different than buying a store brand product. Do you think they make it?

neilric99
02-13-2011, 03:19 AM
Good on you for being open and sharing your manufacture sources, you didnt need to do that. Others are very cagey about revealing their sources.

I wish you great success in selling your solution.


Wow apparently I rubbed you the wrong way. Sorry about that. I use a combination of two manufactures. LEDWALKER for some of the parts (the ones pictured) and Huasun Optoelectronics for driver circuits and controller cards, the same company that I use for manufacturing my video curtains. Hows that for upfront? I worked with both several months until I got a product that I liked. Same pic, yes. Used with permission, yes. Same product 100%, no. Copied, no.

Do you have to buy from me? No. Do I stand behind everything I sell, you bet. And anyone that knows me will tell you that is true. If I offended you in some way, I'm sorry.

And if you feel I misrepresented the product, have the thread removed with my blessing. I have a product line, I have manufactures who make products for me for my brand. Could they be similar to others, sure. It no different than buying a store brand product. Do you think they make it?

miniboyink
02-13-2011, 03:22 AM
Good on you for being open and sharing your manufacture sources, you didnt need to do that. Others are very cagey about revealing their sources.

I wish you great success in selling your solution.

No problem on sharing. I have nothing to hide. Thank you for your encouragement.

budude
02-13-2011, 03:38 AM
Not a bad price really for a completed unit. Member n1ist created a similar product for us DIY'ers called the ColorStick - it has either 16 5050's on one side or 8 on both sides - it's only 14" long but it's controlled via DMX. I would guess multiples of those would actually cost more than what you offer.

MPH - perhaps yours are copies of his? ;)

mrpackethead
02-13-2011, 03:41 AM
tiples of those would actually cost more than what you offer.

MPH - perhaps yours are copies of his?

Could be exactly the same thing, given that they came from the same factory, they almost certainly are the same thing. In fact in my first post i said;

Someone in china must be copying your design.

miniboyink
02-13-2011, 03:52 AM
MPH - perhaps yours are copies of his? ;)

In MPH defense the LEDWALKER tubes he is referring to were first. But mine are slightly different. And it's not copying when you work in conjunction with the manufacture to build a product for you under your own brand. Remember first and foremost I'm brining in the products for Holiday Road. Since I'm bringing in large quantities (1000+ units) I wanted to give other light show people the ability to get them cheap.

Mactayl
02-13-2011, 03:59 AM
Could be exactly the same thing, given that they came from the same factory, they almost certainly are the same thing. In fact in my first post i said;

Someone in china must be copying your design.

Yep sounds almost like Sears and Roebuck, when they put there label on a GE, Westinghouse or whomever they buy from.

mrpackethead
02-13-2011, 04:12 AM
... But mine are slightly different....

What makes them different?

miniboyink
02-13-2011, 08:05 AM
What makes them different?

Perhaps you should have read the postings.
1. The units were designed to take DMX or be hooked in via a DVI controller (DMX & DVI - That is a big one)
2. There is a pressure release to prevent condensation
3. The SMDs are 5050 not 3528

Really MPH what is your problem? I haven't trashed anyones product. I've made no false claims. I didn't say "I made", I clearly said "I'm having made", and I even defended you, and yet you continue to be a jerk. Why? Tell me one other company that would actually tell you who manufactures products for them? Do you think Eurolite makes their products? Nope. Do you think BriteQ and Elation make all of their own products, nope.

I truly feel for a person that has nothing better to do then trash on others. Especially when they have said nothing bad about you.

So tell you what why don't you sell people the tubes here in the United States for the same price? I won't stand in your way. If you can sell them to the people on the board cheaper do so. But make sure to tell all of them who makes them for you.

I hope you make your goal of 1,000,000 RBG elements, but really you don't have to trash other people to make your display look better. Best of luck, enjoy your life, and with that said I have nothing more to say.

MinionsWeb
02-13-2011, 11:05 AM
Looks very cool.

Help me wrap my brain around the software side.
When you want a dmx script, you said it works off a single LOR channel, so it needs a computer to run resident? How would that computer then get triggered?

Or are you supposed to install the app on some other device?

kychristmas
02-13-2011, 11:49 AM
Perhaps you should have read the postings.
1. The units were designed to take DMX or be hooked in via a DVI controller (DMX & DVI - That is a big one)
2. There is a pressure release to prevent condensation
3. The SMDs are 5050 not 3528

Really MPH what is your problem? I haven't trashed anyones product. I've made no false claims. I didn't say "I made", I clearly said "I'm having made", and I even defended you, and yet you continue to be a jerk. Why? Tell me one other company that would actually tell you who manufactures products for them? Do you think Eurolite makes their products? Nope. Do you think BriteQ and Elation make all of their own products, nope.

I truly feel for a person that has nothing better to do then trash on others. Especially when they have said nothing bad about you.

So tell you what why don't you sell people the tubes here in the United States for the same price? I won't stand in your way. If you can sell them to the people on the board cheaper do so. But make sure to tell all of them who makes them for you.

I hope you make your goal of 1,000,000 RBG elements, but really you don't have to trash other people to make your display look better. Best of luck, enjoy your life, and with that said I have nothing more to say.

miniboyink,
I'm not sure how we missed you. Looks like you've been registered a while, but just didn't post much. I'm not doing DMX yet, but I have been interested in Snow Fall Tubes for a while. I love your concept, your honesty, and how upfront you are. I"m not as smart as you guys when it comes to this, and I have to rely on people like y'all. Keep up the great charity work. Those numbers are quite impressive. I will be keeping an eye on your products for the day when I switch to RGB Nodes and DMX. Please don't let MPH drive you away from DIYC. As a non-designer, I can tell there are a ton off guys who appreciate all the different offerings that you experts bring.

I, for one, am fed up with MPH's arrogance and accusations. Its clear that he believes he owns the market on anything RGB and gets defensive when anyone tries to invade his territory. He has promised so many things, yet we see very little made available to us. All this, while criticizing anyone else who tries to do something similar.

I will go on record in saying that when I'm ready to go RGB LEDs, I will not be doing it through MPH or his US counterpart. If they were my only option for RGB, I will quit this hobby or stick with my basic Renard 120v strand setup.

mrpackethead
02-13-2011, 02:47 PM
Im sorry if you've been offended or upset by the questions, so my personal apolgies to you. At a business level, i say "bring it on", I love to see more people out there.

miniboyink
02-13-2011, 03:31 PM
Thanks kychristmas. After reading your post it hit me who MPH is (Christmas Light Project). Now it all make sense. I'm competition to him, but just didn't realize it. Gorilla marketing 101, if someone is in the same space, try to discredit them. And that is what he is trying to do.

But it seems strange to me that he wants to rag on me about creating a branded product when he is doing the same thing. You can buy the exact same products (T3, light stands, etc) from PixelScan in the UK. They both use the same parts and manufacture in China. So MPH why don't you tell them who your manufacture is? Or do you want people to have the impression you created it?

SnowVision is a complete is a solution for the people who are looking to do RGB but don't want to be a tech head to do it. It comes with tubes, power supplies, cables and MADRIX to drive it all. I've made it easy. Now you can create advanced effects with no complicated sequencing. I realize people what to start doing RGB but are frustrated with the sequencing. Programs like LSP make it easier but it's still lots of work.

I have no desire to get into a petty debate with MPH. I have dealt with people like him before answering any further questions for him is a wast of time. We both have solutions. Both are good. If anyone else has questions I will be more than happy to answer them. And if MPH wants to be as upfront and tell you who his manufacture is (and yes I know who it is) then I will answer his questions. No double standards. So MPH are you going to now be upfront with everyone on the board?

miniboyink
02-13-2011, 03:47 PM
Looks very cool.

Help me wrap my brain around the software side.
When you want a dmx script, you said it works off a single LOR channel, so it needs a computer to run resident? How would that computer then get triggered?

Or are you supposed to install the app on some other device?

Here is how it works. MADRIX runs in the background on the same computer you are running LOR. In LOR create a single track for DMX. When sequencing you will specify a DMX value in that track when you want the effect to run. For example if you use a value of 5, MADRIX will play the effect or video clip in bin 5. All of your effects are created within MADRIX and will automatically be pixel mapped for you. If you want you can even redefine pixel mapping. And yes MADRIX could run SnowVision tubes and MPH's RGB stands at the same time.

Here are some support links for you:

Configuration guide: www.showvisionled.com/snowvision-config.pdf
Tutorial that shows how it's done: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO7bRxDiMoc

Hope they help. If not feel free to ask more questions here or via email.

mrpackethead
02-13-2011, 03:55 PM
I had parked this, but i need to reply to clarify some facts here.

The T3 controller was designed by us in 2009. As we have never sold it to Pixelscan in the UK, either someone has copied it end to end, or more likely its just similar to another product. End of story. The T3 is not manufactured in China, and never has been, and is unlikely to ever be manfuactured in china. Untill a few minutes ago, i'd never heard of pixelscan. So as to the T3 controller, yes, we did create it, we did manufacture it, and we do sell it. The same with our E16 controller, and numerous other control devices. Its what we do, design and manufacture electronics. As for impressions, i dont' care, the fact is we manufactured it. Happy to continue the discussion, but perhaps in another thread, because a discussion of my products woudl be off-topic in your thread.

neilric99
02-13-2011, 08:05 PM
I have Madrix and I ran Lightshow Pro to control the Madrix effects via dmx over the ethcongateway DR4 and DR8 E1.31 to 8 TP3244 DMX controllers.

I had 2 main elements of RGB , 1) a 24*21 RGB pixel megatree and 2) a 90*10 RGB pixel matrix. Both being output via Madrix as I mapped the elements and applied the maps to different layers. LSP was used to send the DMX control to Madrix over E1.31 sACN connections.

This year I am going to be adding at least 10 snowtubes and also some RGB digital strip light poles and RGB digital stars on each pole.

Entropy
02-14-2011, 01:18 AM
Perhaps you should have read the postings.
1. The units were designed to take DMX or be hooked in via a DVI controller (DMX & DVI - That is a big one)
2. There is a pressure release to prevent condensation
3. The SMDs are 5050 not 3528

Really MPH what is your problem? I haven't trashed anyones product. I've made no false claims. I didn't say "I made", I clearly said "I'm having made", and I even defended you, and yet you continue to be a jerk. Why? Tell me one other company that would actually tell you who manufactures products for them? Do you think Eurolite makes their products? Nope. Do you think BriteQ and Elation make all of their own products, nope.

I truly feel for a person that has nothing better to do then trash on others. Especially when they have said nothing bad about you.

So tell you what why don't you sell people the tubes here in the United States for the same price? I won't stand in your way. If you can sell them to the people on the board cheaper do so. But make sure to tell all of them who makes them for you.

I hope you make your goal of 1,000,000 RBG elements, but really you don't have to trash other people to make your display look better. Best of luck, enjoy your life, and with that said I have nothing more to say.
I've read this thread, and while I have sometimes disagreed with MPH (Such as the WS2803 unobtainium thread), I don't believe he's being a jerk here.

In fact, some of his posts indicate that he thinks a Chinese manufacturer copied your design and then sold it to him as "original", and in addition to that ripped off your product documentation. Either way, whomever came first, products very similar to yours (Whether predecessors or bad clones) are coming out of China. I think MPH is actually trying to be helpful in that he clearly has had issues with some of these units and believes that yours might be susceptible to the same problems. (Such as his "what is 300mm from the cable end" question.)

jstjohnz
02-15-2011, 02:07 AM
Here is how it works. MADRIX runs in the background on the same computer you are running LOR. In LOR create a single track for DMX. When sequencing you will specify a DMX value in that track when you want the effect to run. For example if you use a value of 5, MADRIX will play the effect or video clip in bin 5. All of your effects are created within MADRIX and will automatically be pixel mapped for you. If you want you can even redefine pixel mapping. And yes MADRIX could run SnowVision tubes and MPH's RGB stands at the same time.

Here are some support links for you:

Configuration guide: www.showvisionled.com/snowvision-config.pdf
Tutorial that shows how it's done: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO7bRxDiMoc

Hope they help. If not feel free to ask more questions here or via email.

The combination of LOR and Madrix is exactly what I used this year. I couldn't really handle LOR's price for their pixel strips, and their software isn't really up to the task of sequencing that many channels. So I wound up designing my own pixel string controller, and bought the pixels (2,000) from Ray Wu. I agree 100% that traditional sequencing software is impractical when dealing with a large number of RGB pixels, it's *much* faster to let Madrix handle the pixels, and remote control it via LOR.

I'm interested in your comment about compatibility with DVI, can you explain that a bit more?

-jim-

miniboyink
02-15-2011, 02:17 AM
T... I agree 100% that traditional sequencing software is impractical when dealing with a large number of RGB pixels, it's *much* faster to let Madrix handle the pixels, and remote control it via LOR.

I'm interested in your comment about compatibility with DVI, can you explain that a bit more?

-jim-

Jim - I have been working with my video screen manufacture to build a controller that would allow you to use a DVI video input, then have a sending unit convert it to pixel data. The advantage is you no longer think in channels and universes. The controller does all of the mapping. It can ultimately be cheaper than DMX. But it also has some creative draw backs. It's great for video grids and such but is not good if you are outlining a house.

-Brad

MinionsWeb
02-15-2011, 08:55 AM
Here is how it works. MADRIX runs in the background on the same computer you are running LOR. In LOR create a single track for DMX. When sequencing you will specify a DMX value in that track when you want the effect to run. For example if you use a value of 5, MADRIX will play the effect or video clip in bin 5. All of your effects are created within MADRIX and will automatically be pixel mapped for you.

So it has to run resident on a n active computer.
My experience is limited to running shows our of a showtime unit, untethered.

Something I needed to know as an LOR partner vendor.

miniboyink
02-15-2011, 12:33 PM
So it has to run resident on a n active computer.
My experience is limited to running shows our of a showtime unit, untethered.

Something I needed to know as an LOR partner vendor.

It's quite easy. If you use an LOR with a director control you can still do it. You just have to hook iDMX up to an Enttc USB adaptor and your ready to go. MADRIX is an in between program that is doing all of the hard work. If people are interested I can work out a data and do a webinar on how it all works. MADRIX can control any DMX device. So if you are using RGB stands, tubes, or spots it will work.

-Brad

jstjohnz
02-16-2011, 01:29 AM
Jim - I have been working with my video screen manufacture to build a controller that would allow you to use a DVI video input, then have a sending unit convert it to pixel data. The advantage is you no longer think in channels and universes. The controller does all of the mapping. It can ultimately be cheaper than DMX. But it also has some creative draw backs. It's great for video grids and such but is not good if you are outlining a house.

-Brad

I'm still not clear on how the DVI interfacing works. Do you need a separate video card on the Madrix computer to output the DVI signal? In the Madrix documentation, under DVI they describe two "Proprietary DVI Devices"; Eurolite T9 and Coloursmart Link. It refers to them as DVI devices, but they seem to interface via ethernet???

TimW
02-16-2011, 02:35 AM
Sounds like a DVI-Pixel bridge... incorporating the mapping of a DVI image stream into pixel regions or behaviours?

smartalec
02-16-2011, 06:37 AM
DVI to tubes sound great, but if the tubes are DMX don't you need a adapter to go from DVI to DMX?
also i was just checking out the site again an noticed something realy weird
the other day the tubes were $55 now there $85, what happened?
just when i was thinking of getting a couple, now the price gets blown out of the water, could you please explain?
thanks alec.

Mactayl
02-16-2011, 07:19 AM
DVI to tubes sound great, but if the tubes are DMX don't you need a adapter to go from DVI to DMX?
also i was just checking out the site again an noticed something realy weird
the other day the tubes were $55 now there $85, what happened?
just when i was thinking of getting a couple, now the price gets blown out of the water, could you please explain?
thanks alec.

That is strange because I thought I saw them for $65 the day before yesterday and your right there $85 now.....:shock::shock:

michaelc
02-16-2011, 10:39 AM
In your first video of the entire block, what elements are you using in your windows. What software are you using to span effects from one to the other or combine for a single 'screen' effect.

miniboyink
02-17-2011, 12:34 AM
The jump was a mistake. I was loading info in to the cart via a new csv file and goofed up my item numbers. It was simply a mistake and completely my fault. The prices have been corrected and if you apply the coupon code that is now shown on the site it puts it back to the previous price. Also if you intend to buy more than 15 tubes contact me and I can arrange an additional discount. The power supply did go up because we are now going to supply a bigger one and are also including a longer cord to go between the power supply and first tube.

Sorry for the goof up.

Update: Just got word that all product should be in March 3rd. I have lots of snow tubes, DMX tubes, power supplies, and cables coming in. If think you want some drop me an email I will hold the product for you and you can pay for it when it is ready to ship. I will still give you the discounted prices.

miniboyink
02-17-2011, 12:54 AM
In your first video of the entire block, what elements are you using in your windows. What software are you using to span effects from one to the other or combine for a single 'screen' effect.

Those are my LED hard panels and they are actually attach to my front porch rails. It's just an illusion that makes you think they are in the windows.

I created four 4' x 6' sections. The video is being sent to the first section and then passed on from right to left. Technically they are all one screen. When you see effects like the fire balls all I did was place and crop the video to the section of the screen I wanted it to show and left the rest black. Super simple, no special software was needed. I created most of my video in Motion and Final Cut Studio from Apple.

michaelc
02-17-2011, 09:50 AM
thanks for the info

bhays
07-14-2011, 10:42 PM
It's quite easy. If you use an LOR with a director control you can still do it. You just have to hook iDMX up to an Enttc USB adaptor and your ready to go. MADRIX is an in between program that is doing all of the hard work. If people are interested I can work out a data and do a webinar on how it all works. MADRIX can control any DMX device. So if you are using RGB stands, tubes, or spots it will work.

-Brad

I'm confused, Madrix has to run on a pc, right? How would this work?

neilric99
07-15-2011, 01:29 AM
I'm confused, Madrix has to run on a pc, right? How would this work?

see the user guide at http://www.snowvisionled.com