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Macrosill
01-28-2011, 02:27 PM
I have been asked by numerous members about re-organizing the wiki. The wiki can be edited by anyone with a wiki account. If you need a wiki account please ask me, via PM, and I will make one for you.

Please hold all wiki organization discussions here in this thread. Ideas, suggestions and such.

Please do not simply start deleting pages and info. Make a new page, or move things around but do not make info disappear.

I also do not want multiple people changing the same info back and forth, that will cause issues. Currently I know dmcole and Raving Lunatic will be doing some of the work. Lets please stay organized and collective in our efforts. Try to coordinate with one another. I am not appointing a single person as in charge, we are adults, lets be responsible and work together.

g2ktcf
01-28-2011, 02:45 PM
Brian,

If someone would tell me how they want it organized, I would be more than willing to modify any of "my" lol pages to meet the requirements!

Chris

dmcole
01-28-2011, 02:47 PM
Currently I know dmcole and Raving Lunatic will be doing some of the work. Lets please stay organized and collective in our efforts. Try to coordinate with one another. I am not appointing a single person as in charge, we are adults, lets be responsible and work together.

Hey! I'm not an adult! ;) ...

Thanks Brian.

RL: Could you post your organizational diagram on this thread?

\dmc

RavingLunatic
01-28-2011, 03:06 PM
Now that the "Green Light" has been given, here is the first step in my plan (not aware of other plans) for re-organizing the wiki:

I have laid out a rough organizational tree for the information. This will be accomplished by using the Category tags in the wiki. I have worked out (off-line) which pages go into which category and which categories go into other categories. The attached image gives the basic layout (subject to change and/or addition). There will also be an Index category that will list all the pages just like an index in a book.

To make this happen I will need to add the Category tags to each page in the wiki. There are currently about 220 pages to deal with, so don't expect an overnight miracle (but if no kids are in the house tonight it might happen ;)).

For people who have pages marked on their "Watch" list, you will be seeing notifications of a change having been made. Please don't Undo the change, give the re-organization a chance to succeed.

At first I am sure there will be some who don't like the structure. But I view it the same as how some librarians probably didn't like the dewey decimal system when it first started because it just wasn't the way they were used to organizing their libraries. But once they got used to it then it became the norm.

Once the structure is in place then I/we can attack the issue of how to make it easier for a new member to figure it out.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I almost forgot. NO information on exisiting pages will be affected by this initial effort. The Category tags are only added at the bottom of the page.


For those members who don't know what I'm talking about when I say Category tag, goto the wiki Main Page and at the bottom of the page is a Category tag. Click it and see where it takes you. Back when I did the SS series wiki pages, I started using the Category tags and Dirk, Chris and Brian (budude) have followed suit. This will give you an idea of what is to come with this step of the re-organization.

Wiki: http://doityourselfchristmas.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page


BTW: I know everyone will want to help in this effort but please just be patient. The Category tags need to stay consistent, so the less fingers in the pot the less corrections will need to be made due to spelling/CaPs issues.

RavingLunatic
01-29-2011, 01:31 PM
OK, the basic wiki organizational structure is in place. The wiki Main Page has been updated to inform members about the Category tags and also the basic wiki organizational structure chart image has been posted there.

So the first phase of the wiki re-org is done. Now letís get some inputs about what members think will improve it. I would prefer inputs to be current and not from what you experienced the last time you went looking. Try the wiki as it stands today and see if the Category tags help you find the info you are looking for. Then make your suggestions/complaints.

Let me address the first question/suggestion right away. Can we make the wiki organizational structure chart image clickable? The compound answer is Yes and No. Yes, it can be done but No not as the wiki stands right now. It will require some additional functionality added via extensions to the wiki. But til the DIYC Forum gets back to normal, I donít want to heap any other tasks on Brianís plate.

As Brian stated in the OP, the wiki is open to everyone. So if you see something that needs updating or changed please do so. To prevent SPAMBOTs, Brian had to institute manual control of the registration process , so contact him to get an account created. Also feel free to create new content if you feel it will benefit the community.

griffixdc
01-29-2011, 02:34 PM
I have been asked by numerous members about re-organizing the wiki. The wiki can be edited by anyone with a wiki account. If you need a wiki account please ask me, via PM, and I will make one for you.

Please hold all wiki organization discussions here in this thread. Ideas, suggestions and such.

Please do not simply start deleting pages and info. Make a new page, or move things around but do not make info disappear.

I also do not want multiple people changing the same info back and forth, that will cause issues. Currently I know dmcole and Raving Lunatic will be doing some of the work. Lets please stay organized and collective in our efforts. Try to coordinate with one another. I am not appointing a single person as in charge, we are adults, lets be responsible and work together.

simply i think; regardless of more useful info is written or un useful or obsolete data is deleted, each revision should be backed up. This should be the precaution of loosing valuable information or incorrect info. Our knowledge base is founded by the words of the wiki, without it being resolute our avocations will be unstable. The wiki is a great guide that separates this forum from others, and is the collective knowledge of our experience, innovative, intelligent adversaries that continue to amaze us :)

P. Short
01-29-2011, 02:36 PM
simply i think; regardless of more useful info is written or un useful or obsolete data is deleted, each revision should be backed up. This should be the precaution of loosing valuable information or incorrect info. Our knowledge base is founded by the words of the wiki, without it being resolute our avocations will be unstable. The wiki is a great guide that separates this forum from others, and is the collective knowledge of our experience, innovative, intelligent adversaries that continue to amaze us :)

What do you have in mind that is not covered by the revision history for each page?

griffixdc
01-29-2011, 02:52 PM
What do you have in mind that is not covered by the revision history for each page?

well its hard to know what has been revised or just posted to the revisions page. But if truthfully the revisions go to the the revisions links then that is the solution i was talking about :) and no need action is required on my request :)

WakeFan
01-29-2011, 03:06 PM
Very nice. Great job!

RavingLunatic
01-29-2011, 03:20 PM
Please do not simply start deleting pages and info. Make a new page, or move things around but do not make info disappear.


To remove any anxiety from any new members thinking about editing the wiki, you can never cause permanent damage. Normal users cannot delete a page. Even if you delete all the info and save it as a blank page, the previous data can be recalled via the History tab.

The only person who can permanently delete a page is Brian and even then it is not truly permanent because it can always be recalled (there might be a limit there but wikipedia info isn't clear).

Having said that, members should still exercise care when editing existing information.

g2ktcf
01-29-2011, 03:26 PM
To remove any anxiety from any new members thinking about editing the wiki, you can never cause permanent damage. Normal users cannot delete a page. Even if you delete all the info and save it as a blank page, the previous data can be recalled via the History tab.

The only person who can permanently delete a page is Brian and even then it is not truly permanent because it can always be recalled (there might be a limit there but wikipedia info isn't clear).

Having said that, members should still exercise care when editing existing information.

RL, I know that no one "owns" a page...but if you notice that one particular person does all the editing on that page...does it make sense to discuss the change with them? I feel like I own the SSRez page (for good reason). I also feel that I am "responsible" for the REN64XC pages. Alot of work has gone into them...I know the wiki is not setup that way but I also do not want to get into changing it back and then back and then back with someone either. I guess this is the age old Wiki problem!

RavingLunatic
01-29-2011, 04:39 PM
Chris,

I completely understand your sense of "ownership" of wiki pages, I have my fair share of those also. Over the years I have forced the sense of "ownership" out of my mind but I never let go of the responsibility. So anytime someone makes a change to a page that I might have viewed as "mine", I do check to see what they changed. And from my experience, nobody has ever made a drastic change to any page that I was concerned with.

Luckily making changes in the wiki is more difficult than just posting random thoughts in the forum. So nobody seems to be inclined to make frivolous changes in the wiki.

I've also noticed that if it is clear who is handling a controller then most members will notify that person of problems in the wiki instead of doing the corrections themselves. Ask Wayne how many PMs he gets about the SS series wikis, which of course I find very funny since I did them (of course Wayne doesn't share my enjoyment there ;)).

I also believe that factual wiki pages like those dealing with the boards don't have as much threat of being heavily modified as compared with an opinion type of wiki page. Such as if you wrote a wiki page extolling the Ren 64XC supremacy over all other controllers, then that page might be very active in the number of edits/revisions.

If you do notice an individual who makes or keeps making edits that you don't agree with, you should contact them direct and let them know why you have issue with their edits. I know that Wayne and I have been contacted numerous times about the order of assembly of the SS boards. Each time we calmly inform the member that we are happy with the order as is and there are multiple different ways it can be done but the wiki can only be written in one way.


Sorry to have rambled so long.

griffixdc
01-29-2011, 05:51 PM
lol i have no fear of who revises or creates the Wiki , i am just worried of information that could be lost ...the history tab doesn't work with people who delete their history every few days, and whose to know when someone edits its until you actually check it out. on a different note i just want to say thank you to all that have contributed to the wiki it has helped very much so and i will continue to use it to learn new sparks of interests

budude
01-29-2011, 06:39 PM
lol i have no fear of who revises or creates the Wiki , i am just worried of information that could be lost ...the history tab doesn't work with people who delete their history every few days, and whose to know when someone edits its until you actually check it out. on a different note i just want to say thank you to all that have contributed to the wiki it has helped very much so and i will continue to use it to learn new sparks of interests

RL's referring to the Wiki page history - if you look at any page there are tabs on top - one of them is "History" - if you click on that it will show all the past revisions. You can revert the page to any of those versions if you wish so anything can be undone if necessary.

RavingLunatic
01-29-2011, 06:40 PM
griffixdc,

I guess you still do not understand or are not actually looking at a wiki page. Along the top of each wiki page is a History tab that tracks each and every edit. It also gives you the capability to compare the different revisions so you can easily see what has been updated. That revision history exists as long as the page does. Has nothing to do with a browser history as it seems you believe it does by your post.

Also each page can be marked as "Watched". This allows you (based on your preferences) to receive an email every time an edit occurs. As an example, I received an email today when budude added a picture of the Ren 48LSB PCB to the Electronics Hardware page.


Just trying to help you understand.

P. Short
01-29-2011, 07:17 PM
Just to beat a dead horse, the journal of changes to each wiki page (wiki page history) is created automatically by the wiki software. It is not something that anybody creates manually or changes manually. It is updated automatically whenever someone makes a change to the wiki page.

dmcole
01-29-2011, 07:46 PM
RL:

I think the categories help a lot. It is too bad that the MediaWiki software doesn't support image maps out of the box, but once people see the diagram, I think that they can figure out where to go.

I'm still not sure that the "beginner's page" isn't too complex. I'm going to have to think about that.

Thanks for your hard work.

\dmc

griffixdc
01-30-2011, 12:38 AM
thanx...i did not understand the the whole history tab thing , although i did know about the revisions that can be linked to most current display of data...

i am a new member of DIYC so i cannot say what was in the wiki before i was here so you can in theory tell me anything about how it never deletes it or not and displays the old revisions, i would not and will not know either way but i trust that your right ;) and good to know that revisions are saved not that its very crucial maybe the latest 5 and the original post would be the more important.

P. Short
01-30-2011, 12:39 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki

rice66
01-30-2011, 01:24 PM
Thanks Phil and Brian for advancing the way we can collect members work, ideas and thoughts
Rice66

Jrd
02-01-2011, 02:05 AM
Looks good!

Can we move 24 Channel Renard with SSR Assembly Instructions (http://www.doityourselfchristmas.com/wiki/index.php?title=24_Channel_Renard_with_SSR_Assembl y_Instructions) to "Renard 24HC" or something like that?

Could we also move 24 Channel Renard without (http://www.doityourselfchristmas.com/wiki/index.php?title=24_Channel_Renard_without) to "Renard 24LV" or similar"?

As those titles are not very descriptive of the controller. Now if someone is going to redo those pages like how Chris gave the Renard 64XC it's own pages then those page titles can be reserved for that.

Oh and also I think the page "Please see here if you purchased any (http://www.doityourselfchristmas.com/wiki/index.php?title=Please_see_here_if_you_purchased_a ny)" needs more description or if the information is no longer relevant then it can be removed from the index and Renard 24 categories.

DynamoBen
02-01-2011, 02:08 AM
I just started populating new wiki pages for ArtNet and Streaming-ACN (E1.31), I did not see them on the road map but they should be treated just like the DMX page.

RavingLunatic
02-01-2011, 08:25 PM
Ricky,

Your post highlights one of the problems with something like the wiki, what is clear to one person may or may not be clear to another.



Can we move 24 Channel Renard with SSR Assembly Instructions (http://www.doityourselfchristmas.com/wiki/index.php?title=24_Channel_Renard_with_SSR_Assembl y_Instructions) to "Renard 24HC" or something like that?


I would have changed it to "Renard 24" but it is already taken. So I opted to leave it as it is til someone (if anyone) steps up to update the page.




Could we also move 24 Channel Renard without (http://www.doityourselfchristmas.com/wiki/index.php?title=24_Channel_Renard_without) to "Renard 24LV" or similar"?


Obvious bad title. Changed to "Renard 24LV", updated 5 pages that link to it (don't want to rely on the redirect).




As those titles are not very descriptive of the controller. Now if someone is going to redo those pages like how Chris gave the Renard 64XC it's own pages then those page titles can be reserved for that.


Yes, it would be nice if someone would step-up and bring the Renard 24 pages up to the same level as the SS series and Renard 64XC. Maybe this post will spark some interest in that regard.




Oh and also I think the page "Please see here if you purchased any (http://www.doityourselfchristmas.com/wiki/index.php?title=Please_see_here_if_you_purchased_a ny)" needs more description or if the information is no longer relevant then it can be removed from the index and Renard 24 categories.

Hopefully, Frank can chime in (or you can PM him) on what version this referred to or even if it is still necessary.


BTW: Don't get on a "Rename all the pages" kick. Each renaming causes the old page name to be turned into a Redirect page and all the old links still point there. Most wiki help info (that I've found) warns against double or more redirects. Also, all external links will be to the new Redirect page instead of the real page (unless they are linked to just a section on the page then this might cause a broken link). So lets keep the renaming to a minimum.

Jrd
02-02-2011, 12:57 AM
I would have changed it to "Renard 24" but it is already taken. So I opted to leave it as it is til someone (if anyone) steps up to update the page.
I made the page "Renard 24" because the Renard 24HC and LV were not named appropriately in my opinion. We could delete the page Renard 24 or move it to "Renard 24 (disambiguation)" and then the Renard 24HC can be named "Renard 24".


Hopefully, Frank can chime in (or you can PM him) on what version this referred to or even if it is still necessary.


Yea, that would be nice, maybe I should PM him.


BTW: Don't get on a "Rename all the pages" kick. Each renaming causes the old page name to be turned into a Redirect page and all the old links still point there. Most wiki help info (that I've found) warns against double or more redirects. Also, all external links will be to the new Redirect page instead of the real page (unless they are linked to just a section on the page then this might cause a broken link). So lets keep the renaming to a minimum.

I didn't ask if we could rename all the pages, just a few that seemed like they could have been named better.

And I would like to learn more about editing wikis so any good info/help pages would be appreciated.

dirknerkle
02-02-2011, 01:07 AM
I very much like the graphic diagram of the wiki layout... but these old eyes have trouble seeing the text. Is there any chance of making the text bigger and perhaps all the bullet topics narrower so they'll still fit? Seems like quite a bit of wasted room.

No big deal, just a thought... One solution, of course, is to raise the magnification of the browser, but then you can't get it to fit on the screen very easily.

Just ideas...

bcstuff
02-02-2011, 05:14 AM
It does let you see the full size picture, but I have to click it 3 times.
Click 1st to go to the image in the wiki, then to open the full resolution (but Firefox re-sizes it to fit the screen), and finally click to see the full picture.

I know you had stated that in this current version of Wiki you could not have click-able images. What about instead of the image make a hyperlink tree kind of like an outline with hyperlinks. You could even use buttons or boxes for each category if you wanted it to make it like a click-able image.

For example:


DIYC Software
Vixen

DIYC Hardware
Renard
Renard 16
Renard 24
SSRs
DMX

Protocols

Brian

RavingLunatic
02-02-2011, 08:12 AM
I didn't ask if we could rename all the pages, just a few that seemed like they could have been named better.

And I would like to learn more about editing wikis so any good info/help pages would be appreciated.

I know you didn't (shouldn't have made it appear directed at you). I added that so anyone following the thread would know the effects of renaming pages and not be tempted to ask for pages to renamed without a good reason.

The link at the bottom of the wiki Main Page to http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents is where I started to learn about how to edit the wiki.

Wikipedia also has good info on editing wiki pages. Only problem with some of the more advance topics is that the required extensions aren't installed in the ChristmasWiki (yet ;)).

RavingLunatic
02-02-2011, 10:05 PM
I very much like the graphic diagram of the wiki layout... but these old eyes have trouble seeing the text. Is there any chance of making the text bigger and perhaps all the bullet topics narrower so they'll still fit? Seems like quite a bit of wasted room.


Try it now.... Any better on your old eyes?? :lol:

dirknerkle
02-02-2011, 10:34 PM
Try it now.... Any better on your old eyes?? :lol:

I CAN SEE! I CAN SEE!

That's fabulous! Thanks!

Jrd
02-03-2011, 12:07 AM
That's a good link, I have a wiki on Wikia and I have been reading some of the help pages on Wikipedia and Wikimedia when I have a question on how to do something.