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Pyrotech
11-18-2010, 06:45 PM
No matter how I phrase a search, I get far to many non relevant responses, even in advanced and using "" or boolean.

eg, I'm trying to find out about connections on the flood strips, so flood strip common ground, produces the same as "flood strip" "common ground" and flood AND strip AND common AND ground etc.

Is this right? Is there a secret?

DIY Guy
11-18-2010, 08:15 PM
No matter how I phrase a search, I get far to many non relevant responses, even in advanced and using "" or boolean.

eg, I'm trying to find out about connections on the flood strips, so flood strip common ground, produces the same as "flood strip" "common ground" and flood AND strip AND common AND ground etc.

Is this right? Is there a secret?

The secret is to use google.. ie

flood strip common ground site:doityourselfchristmas.com

I agree, the search here is lacking (ie not being able to search short strings), but I don't think any vB search will ever be as good as google anyway.

Pyrotech
11-18-2010, 08:31 PM
Thank you for that, sometimes the obvious escapes you....

enuro12
11-23-2010, 09:09 PM
second that, i tried a search for rgb.... returned 0 results...

g8rfn
12-05-2010, 11:59 AM
Ha. I searched for "pink fluffy bunnies" after getting aggrevated with the 499 results for everything... And yes, I got over 100 hits. Google is great suggestion, thanks.

kychristmas
12-05-2010, 12:28 PM
Ha. I searched for "pink fluffy bunnies" after getting aggrevated with the 499 results for everything... And yes, I got over 100 hits. Google is great suggestion, thanks.

Don't exagerate. The search isn't great, but I don't think you got any results when searching for "Pink Fluffy Bunnies" I didn't anyway.

The Tag search is a great tool. Especially if people Tag their threads accordingly. Your "RGB" search will yield results and there doesn't seem to be a limit. I'm also certain that is less processor intensive on the system since they are essentially canned results defined in the system.

The search tool is a basic programmatic search. Looks like Brian is planning an upgrade early next year and I understand it includes improved Search features.

oldcqr
12-05-2010, 01:38 PM
I did the search, and Pink Fluffy Bunnies does in fact return nearly 100 matches (94 when I did it).

The problem here with search is the 25 second delay that is imposed. I know that there is a limit to prevent DoS attacks, but 25 secs is a bit much (1-5 would be better and accomplish the same thing).

I say the 25 second wait is the problem because you can't refine a search in a reasonable amount of time. Sometimes it takes 3 or 4 searches to narrow down what you are looking for. That means waiting around doing nothing for almost 2 mins.

mattrob
12-05-2010, 05:16 PM
If you're using Firefox, you can setup a "Quick Search" to easily use Google to search DIYC. Whenever you want to search, just type in a keyword and the search term in the address bar and press enter. For example, I used "DIYC" as the keyword, so I can type DIYC Pink Fluffy Bunnies and it will return 0 results on Google. :-)

To set it up, you add a bookmark in the "Quick Searches" folder of Firefox (I have found some installations don't have the folder. Then edit the properties of the bookmark to this:
Location:

http://www.google.com/search?q=%s+site%3Adoityourselfchristmas.com&hl=en&num=10&lr=&ft=i&cr=&safe=images
Keyword: DIYC (or anything you want)

Definitely easier than typing site:doityourselfchristmas.com into Google all the time (I always make some sort of typo)

g8rfn
12-06-2010, 09:04 AM
Don't exagerate. The search isn't great, but I don't think you got any results when searching for "Pink Fluffy Bunnies" I didn't anyway.

The Tag search is a great tool. Especially if people Tag their threads accordingly. Your "RGB" search will yield results and there doesn't seem to be a limit. I'm also certain that is less processor intensive on the system since they are essentially canned results defined in the system.

The search tool is a basic programmatic search. Looks like Brian is planning an upgrade early next year and I understand it includes improved Search features.


Perhaps check your results again before waving your finger? 99% of the time, if you search for anything even semi-legitimate, you get 499 results. And, rarely is the one that is actually most relevant even on the first page. Even on the "pfb" search, this thread came up second.

Entropy
12-06-2010, 09:16 AM
Don't exagerate. The search isn't great, but I don't think you got any results when searching for "Pink Fluffy Bunnies" I didn't anyway.

The Tag search is a great tool. Especially if people Tag their threads accordingly. Your "RGB" search will yield results and there doesn't seem to be a limit. I'm also certain that is less processor intensive on the system since they are essentially canned results defined in the system.

The search tool is a basic programmatic search. Looks like Brian is planning an upgrade early next year and I understand it includes improved Search features.

If you did indeed capitalize it, you would get different results.

In my experience, most search engines assume a case-insensitive search when the search terms are all lowercase. If capital letters are used, they switch to a case-sensitive search.

kychristmas
12-06-2010, 09:56 AM
Perhaps check your results again before waving your finger? 99% of the time, if you search for anything even semi-legitimate, you get 499 results. And, rarely is the one that is actually most relevant even on the first page. Even on the "pfb" search, this thread came up second.

I did check my results. I didn't really care and wasn't "waiving a finger." I get the same results if I put it in Quotes or just the 3 keywords. Capitalized or not.

It's certainly strange. Perhaps there are different search capabilities for supporting members, but I wouldn't have posted something I know not to be true. I know that I am generally able to find what I need. Its not great, but I have certainly used worse. If I get too many results, I then try to do the Keyword thing. It's fast and there's no restrictions on the frequency

g8rfn
12-07-2010, 09:18 AM
Who could confirm if that's true? Different search functions for different types of members?

Macrosill
12-07-2010, 09:26 AM
I can. This is not true. There is no different search function for anyone, even me. The only difference in account status here is for a Supporting Member. You can read the benefits of a Supporting Membership here. (http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2346)

The search function is not perfect, but what is? That's why this is not one of those places on the internet where every response to every question is "Use the search function". I hate that and will not tolerate it. There is no benefit to a reply like that, it does not answer the question and only creates a feeling of un-welcomeness. If that is a word, but you get the point. If anyone sees a reply like that let me know.

dirknerkle
12-07-2010, 01:36 PM
You can read the benefits of a Supporting Membership here. (http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2346)


There are many, many more benefits of Supporting Membership, such as the continuation of this great board that Brian oversees, updated software, and much behind-the-scenes time and effort spent to keep it running and making it efficient and quick.

There's a lot of work to maintaining a dynamic system like this. It's so much more than just buying space on a server and putting it up for others to use.

So to deliberately hijack the thread a little, I'll add a plug for it... support your local sheriff!...er... webmaster....er.... awwww, geez... support Brian!

kychristmas
12-07-2010, 01:48 PM
I can. This is not true. There is no different search function for anyone, even me.

Then I don't see why we got different results on that search. Must be something to it though. I have tried the "PFB" search many ways and never receive results with more than this thread in it.

One of those strange things, but maybe the cause will also point to why g8rfn gets "more than 499" results for many of his searches.

g8rfn
12-07-2010, 02:02 PM
exactly what I was getting at too ky... It does seem that perhaps there is something to it? Perhaps we could compare additional search term results?

Search term and results obtained:

Ren ss24 enclosure - 499 results
LED channel bleed - 500 results
spiral mega tree - 498 results

With the exception of "pink fluffy bunnies" i don't think i have ever searched for anything that returns less than 490 results. Anyone else see similar issues? Perhaps there is something wrong with my account? Can't think of what would cause us to get different results?

kychristmas
12-07-2010, 02:07 PM
Searching as a Phrase in double quotes"

Ren ss24 enclosure - 1 result this thread
LED channel bleed - 1 result this thread
spiral mega tree - 4 results with this as the top.

g8rfn
12-07-2010, 02:41 PM
There is definitely something wrong here... Still get 499 as a phrase (attached). Though at least this time, this thread is at the top of the list. Sometimes the first 10 or so are completely irrelevant.

Any other thoughts as to what could be causing this? I think there is a large delta between the "not ideal" case many of you describe, versus the level I am seeing.

oldcqr
12-07-2010, 02:52 PM
FYI....

I don't know how it is with vBulletin, but phpBB would occasionally screw up the search index table. You would have to delete the table and re-create it - there was a script or built in function to do it - I don't remember which.

It was expensive in terms of CPU time spent not dollars. However a trashed index could cause some of these weird results.

kychristmas
12-07-2010, 03:05 PM
FYI....

I don't know how it is with vBulletin, but phpBB would occasionally screw up the search index table. You would have to delete the table and re-create it - there was a script or built in function to do it - I don't remember which.

It was expensive in terms of CPU time spent not dollars. However a trashed index could cause some of these weird results.

While I can see that happening, I doubt that's what we are seeing here. If it were, everyone would get the same corrupted results.

dirknerkle
12-07-2010, 03:10 PM
All of these are good points. I just searched for "Ren-W" and didn't locate any postings or threads. Yet something tells me that there are actually many, many postings out there about it...

Is it possible that there's a minimum word length that's required for a valid search?

ErnieHorning
12-07-2010, 03:23 PM
Google's default is OR, so it will find all threads with any of those words. Use a + at the begining of each word if it must be included, - if you don't want it and | if it can be but doesn't have to be.

PFB found only one thread for me though.

Entropy
12-07-2010, 03:31 PM
There is definitely something wrong here... Still get 499 as a phrase (attached). Though at least this time, this thread is at the top of the list. Sometimes the first 10 or so are completely irrelevant.

Any other thoughts as to what could be causing this? I think there is a large delta between the "not ideal" case many of you describe, versus the level I am seeing.

Good question. I'm getting results consistent with yours.

Note: I enter Search by using the "Search" dropdown at the upper right (shown in your screenshot"

Two things I can think of are:
1) Maybe those who are getting better results are entering search mode from a different entry point?
2) Despite there officially being no difference (and no intentional difference) in search engine between Supporting Member and Member, there is some weird forum bug that causes a difference?

Macrosill
12-07-2010, 05:19 PM
exactly what I was getting at too ky... It does seem that perhaps there is something to it? Perhaps we could compare additional search term results?

Search term and results obtained:

Ren ss24 enclosure - 499 results
LED channel bleed - 500 results
spiral mega tree - 498 results

With the exception of "pink fluffy bunnies" i don't think i have ever searched for anything that returns less than 490 results. Anyone else see similar issues? Perhaps there is something wrong with my account? Can't think of what would cause us to get different results?

I get 500 results for each of those 3 searches, with and without quotes.

kychristmas
12-07-2010, 06:06 PM
Now it's getting interesting... Every time people complained about the search I just figured they were spoiled and wanted it to be Google. If this were happening to me, I would be complaining too :)

For the record I get the same results (Expected Good ones!) whether I do it from the drop down or the advanced search page.

Although not my first choice, I'm thinking its browser or OS related. Like Special character getting set or not getting sent. Clearly our searches phrases are the same (evidenced by the screen shots), but it's not correct.

I looked at the User Options and I can see nothing that would seem to effect the search results, but you never know.


It doesn't help

ErnieHorning
12-07-2010, 06:58 PM
LED channel bleed - 3
Ren ss24 enclosure – 24
spiral mega tree - 18

Using MS Explorer 6.0. Yeah I know it's old but it's a work computer.

g8rfn
12-07-2010, 09:46 PM
Now it's getting interesting... Every time people complained about the search I just figured they were spoiled and wanted it to be Google. If this were happening to me, I would be complaining too :)



Indeed, I would happily take the "not ideal" level of broken right now. :-)

Perhaps I'll try creating a new account and see if that does anything?

Macrosill
12-08-2010, 10:33 AM
.....

Perhaps I'll try creating a new account and see if that does anything?

Please do not do that. It is against the rules of the forum, could result in a ban.

g8rfn
12-09-2010, 04:56 PM
Please do not do that. It is against the rules of the forum, could result in a ban.

So... Is anyone looking into this? Or are all of us who are experiencing this issue just SOL?

kychristmas
12-09-2010, 05:08 PM
Before we put too much effort into it, I would say wait until Brian performs an upgrade early next year. From what I read, there's a great deal of improvement to the software.

Remember, Brian is having the trouble as well, so I'm sure it won't get ignored :)

Even though I don't have the issues you are having, I have been using the Google method to search for many things.

Entropy
12-09-2010, 05:21 PM
LED channel bleed - 3
Ren ss24 enclosure – 24
spiral mega tree - 18

Using MS Explorer 6.0. Yeah I know it's old but it's a work computer.

Firefox here

Edit: Same with IE7

Macrosill
12-09-2010, 05:39 PM
So... Is anyone looking into this? Or are all of us who are experiencing this issue just SOL?

I am trying hard to take your comments in a non-condescending and rude way. If I am wrong I can make it so that you will be SOL on this board and not just in the search function.

You have been a member here since 12/12/09 and have 22 posts. More than a few of those posts are about the search function. Not exactly what I would call an active participant.

Take the advice of some of the more senior members. Usually they have a good handle on how things work and give good suggestions.

g8rfn
12-10-2010, 04:22 AM
I am trying hard to take your comments in a non-condescending and rude way. If I am wrong I can make it so that you will be SOL on this board and not just in the search function.

You have been a member here since 12/12/09 and have 22 posts. More than a few of those posts are about the search function. Not exactly what I would call an active participant.

Take the advice of some of the more senior members. Usually they have a good handle on how things work and give good suggestions.

Sorry I don't qualify as a valuable member in your mind. But, keep in mind that many of us who are completely new to this use the site more for FINDING info than sharing thoughts or opinions. Predominantly, because we don't have any thoughts or opinions to contribute yet. To somehow try to say that we don't "deserve" a working search feature (which is how your reply, as well as the previous reply of being banned for testing a new account as a possible solution came across) is absurd. And, if that is the way this forum is managed, it's a real shame as there are countless informative posts and members here which make it very helpful to us beginners. All I was trying to do was get confirmation that someone was looking into it since I still have not seen any admin confirm. I, along with everyone else, certainly appreciate everything that is done to keep this site alive. And, even more so... the friendly, informative, and helpful nature of this entire community. And, I certainly didn't mean to disrespect that... But, streets go both ways.

Macrosill
12-10-2010, 09:02 AM
Sorry I don't qualify as a valuable member in your mind. But, keep in mind that many of us who are completely new to this use the site more for FINDING info than sharing thoughts or opinions. Predominantly, because we don't have any thoughts or opinions to contribute yet. To somehow try to say that we don't "deserve" a working search feature (which is how your reply, as well as the previous reply of being banned for testing a new account as a possible solution came across) is absurd. And, if that is the way this forum is managed, it's a real shame as there are countless informative posts and members here which make it very helpful to us beginners. All I was trying to do was get confirmation that someone was looking into it since I still have not seen any admin confirm. I, along with everyone else, certainly appreciate everything that is done to keep this site alive. And, even more so... the friendly, informative, and helpful nature of this entire community. And, I certainly didn't mean to disrespect that... But, streets go both ways.

I used the word "active", not "valuable". Those words have different meanings, just use Google to search for them.

"Many of "us" who are completely new to this site.." You have been a member since 12/12, not new to the site in my book.


If you were "active" then you may have know I plan an entire software upgrade "after the holiday season". This way, in case something goes wrong the members will not be without the help of the forums when they need it most.

Yes, you are right on one point, everyone here deserves a properly working search function, including me. But being as we are in the peak of the display season I will not try to "fix" things right now. If I try to fix the search function and something else gets corrupted and the site goes down I am sure you will be more upset with that. Then you will not even be able to utilize the broken search function. What is more important? What do you think I should do? Risk all 7,190 members use of the forums or wait until the new software is installed?

If you were "active" then you may have know I plan an entire software upgrade "after the holiday season". This way, in case something goes wrong the members will not be without the help of the forums when they need it most.

I guess I was wrong to point out the rules to you. I will make sure not to help you out with advice in the future. I will just sit back, watch and then take action when necessary. I would not want you to feel I am absurd.

You have not you "still have not seen any admin confirm? Who am I?

Official Announcement:
The staff here at DIYC are aware of the issue with the search function and are experiencing the same results as you. We do not want to risk the boards going down during this most active time of the year. We are planning on an entire software upgrade after the holiday season is over. We would appreciate your patience until then.

Jakeleg1969
12-10-2010, 09:20 AM
Hey guys!! It's Christmas time.. IMHO, the best season of the entire year. OK, I will admit that the sight might have some limitations, but it is FREE. Accept it for what it is and let's just live with it a little longer. Accept the good parts, work with the weak parts and enjoy it. And, above all,

Have a MERRY CHRISTMAS!!

(OK, I'm done)

Jerry in Louisiana :-D

Macrosill
12-10-2010, 01:29 PM
I had some time so I lurked around today. I found a setting that may have had an effect on the search function. Please try your searches again and see if there is any change.

n1ist
12-10-2010, 02:22 PM
Looks like it is working now. There's only one pink fluffy bunnies thread instead of the 95 I saw previously, and some other searches I did are giving reasonable results. Thanks.
/mike

ErnieHorning
12-10-2010, 04:10 PM
So if you throw a chair, you can motivate the admin here.:p

Somehow I don't think that's going to ever work again.:D

Macrosill
12-10-2010, 05:06 PM
Chairs I can handle. Its the....

Maybe its better I just not say anything more.

dirknerkle
12-10-2010, 05:07 PM
Waitaminute... throwing chairs? No way! There can be ONLY ONE Bobby Knight!!! :lol:

rush44oh1
12-10-2010, 05:12 PM
i just want to say i have had problems with the search but oh well this is the best site out there and i am very thankful that the admin even takes time to keep this site running. with out it we would most likely not have anything so i say hats off to admin and i have no problem wating for it be fixed thanks for your hard work and effort


PS. Just to help show my support i signed up to be a supporting memeber today only twenty bucks but i hope it helps

ErnieHorning
12-10-2010, 05:46 PM
Without it, we'd still be at Computer Christmas.:rolleyes::-|

RandyA
12-10-2010, 11:36 PM
LOL

,Randy