Yet Another Flood..

[LabRat]

Upon review of the Mighty Mini RGB floods that I had purchased, I realized that I didn't actually want to run 24v within my setup, as that would make 3 different DC values to track. Furthermore it would make it that much easier for me to plug in the wrong devices to the wrong controllers and .. well .. in technical terms... Vooomff!!

So, I have drafted out "Yet Another RGBA (amber/white) flood". The board is designed for the 8mm LEDs that were recently purchased in the group buys. I haven't sent these off to manufacture yet, but plan to get a sample run of 10 boards done by the end of August. I will post the gerbers for all to use (ok.. for ANYONE to use), once I have proven that they work.

This board is slightly larger than the MM, as I have "porta-flood" enclosures I didn't feel the need to work so hard to keep the footprint small. These are significantly smaller than the enclosure, but too big for an MM enclosure.
(10cm x 8cm)

The difference in the circuit is that I have 4 parallel channels for each colour, instead of two. So twice the number of resistors and I can then drive these with 12v instead of 24v.


Constructive Feedback is always welcome:

http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7091&stc=1&d=1279794159

[dirknerkle]

Very nice! I love options like that.

I made a similar board although I included a 1N1004 diode in each circuit so I could run it off of 24vac as well as 12vdc. (I had some 24vac wall warts sitting around that looked kinda lonely, so I thought I'd give them something to do.) The diode also allows powering a normal SSR with the 24vac wall wart and feeding the SSR's output directly to the wall washer, eliminating the need for a special DC SSR or DC controller to operate them.

[LabRat]

What were the Wall warts from? I've got a WHACK of 9v wall warts (chargers from Cordless phones), but can't imagine what would require 24vac (modems perhaps??)

[tjetzer]

What were the Wall warts from? I've got a WHACK of 9v wall warts (chargers from Cordless phones), but can't imagine what would require 24vac (modems perhaps??)


CCTV Cameras perhaps?

[Skunberg]

Do I hear a 5v panel?

[n1ist]

24VAC is quite common in the industrial world - CCTV, alarms, fire panels, security, and the like.
/mike

[LabRat]

24VAC is quite common in the industrial world - CCTV, alarms, fire panels, security, and the like.
/mike

I would have expected these to be handled via installed transformers (like doorbells) versus wall warts. But hey.. "ya learn sumthin' new every day"

:cool:

RE: 5v - I wasn't planning on one.. but it's not outside the realm of reason. It would certainly help to only have the one voltage, instead of two.

[Skunberg]

I would have expected these to be handled via installed transformers (like doorbells) versus wall warts. But hey.. "ya learn sumthin' new every day"
:cool:

RE: 5v - I wasn't planning on one.. but it's not outside the realm of reason. It would certainly help to only have the one voltage, instead of two.


Generally (GENERALLY) the doorbell ect transformers are AC and wall warts are DC, correct?

Yes, one DC voltage would be nice. And wouldn't the 5vdc be a better one to use for our LED lighting direction?

[plasmata]

I remember reading something in a MM thread from someone who wanted to modify it for 12V. It was said that Frank used 24V because it would be better for longer runs. Apparently the voltage drop would have a greater effect on lower voltages for a given distance. That being the case I would think that it would have an even greater effect at 5V.

[n1ist]

For lower voltages, you end up with more parallel strings of fewer LEDs (assuming you want the same number of LEDs). This will increase the current. Voltage drop in the cables (and in the driver transistors) is proportional to the square of the current, so it will have more of an effect.
/mike

[dmcole]

Generally (GENERALLY) the doorbell ect transformers are AC and wall warts are DC, correct?


While certainly not a thorough survey, when I pawed through a box of used wall warts at a flea market a year or so ago, I found them split pretty evenly between between AC and DC. The vast majority were for low amounts of current (500 milliamps or less).

\dmc

[cenote]

also, consider this, the higher the voltage, the less voltage drop you will have. 24v on 18g solid over 500', there is nearly no voltage loss, but at 12v, there is a little.

[budude]

You should always set the resistor values based upon the actual power supply and cabling you plan to use. The best option is to have an adjustable supply (at least within +/- a volt or so).

Interesting project LabRat - I was initially going to hack my MM boards to run at 12v, then decided to try the LM317 regulators instead which required eight regulators to be installed with 24v but would need 16 with 12v. However - I don't really like the idea of having a 5, 12 and 24vdc setup running of my LSDs as you said so I may go back to cutting them up and using plain 'ol resistors. It looks like pretty easy surgery and that way I can run my Rainbow Floods with my MMs at 12v and any other 12v stuff that comes along...

[Skunberg]

If you use higher voltage for less line loss and then use a large resistor to lower the voltage, Aren't you better off starting with the lower voltage? I suppose I should add the qualifier of a smaller yard, say 200 foot by 100 foot or less. And while I'm on a rant, why don't we use the constant current LED driver on super strips, MM and other floods? Sorry but I need a education on this.

[chilloutdocdoc]

If you use higher voltage for less line loss and then use a large resistor to lower the voltage, Aren't you better off starting with the lower voltage? I suppose I should add the qualifier of a smaller yard, say 200 foot by 100 foot or less. And while I'm on a rant, why don't we use the constant current LED driver on super strips, MM and other floods? Sorry but I need a education on this.

Skun..... say you want to have 30 led's in total, and they each require 2.3v

at 12V the most you'd get in a series is 5

30/5 = 6 parallel strips of 5 led's
6*20mA = 120mA

at 24V the most you'd get in a series is 10
30/10 = 3 parallel strips
3*20mA = 60mA

Half the current. Since the power loss is based upon current, half the current, means half the loss.

[LabRat]

Boards have been ordered. My daughter talked me into a BLUE solder mask. At least I won't confuse them with the MM boards I've already purchased.

[LabRat]

Boards arrived...

.. they are a thing of beauty. Blue solder mask.. just the right size... an extra four boards ... everything was looking great...


.. until...

As I went to put in one of the 8mm LEDs, I discovered that their legs are much larger than the legs of a standard 5mm LED. So the library part that I made for the 8mm LED in eagle, has holes that are too small for the LEDs legs to fit into. None of the 8mm LEDs will fit on the board.

(Sigh)

Time to re-work the Eagle library... and send off for *another* shipment of PCBs.

[dirknerkle]

I've done the same thing numerous times. I always print the final tracings out and then actually check for a fit with the parts. I've discovered lots of wierd things...

[Matt_Edwards]

I know how devastating that can be.

I would still build one using 5mm LEDs to prove the concept.

[Skunberg]

OOOooooocchhhhh!

[LabRat]

I've done the same thing numerous times. I always print the final tracings out and then actually check for a fit with the parts. I've discovered lots of wierd things...

Unfortunately I don't think this would have helped (in this instance, as I normally do do that myself). Unless I used properly calibrated drills to make holes in the paper.. I wouldn't have noticed that the holes were too small.

I've fixed it all up.. and will try again.

(Lesson learned)

I will also look for some nice bright 5mm LEDs to make some accent (vs FLOOD) lighting. Just a disappointment as I was looking forward to putting this together tonight, and hooking it up to the REN48LSD.

On the flip side though.. dang but they looked good. ;)

[budude]

How about using a 1/4 or 1/2W resistor lead cutoff as an extender into the holes and then soldering the LEDs to the cutoffs. Not pretty but would save your boards and allow you to test them out...

[LabRat]

I've got enough Blue LED's left over from the LedTricks, so that I can populate a board to test.

[LabRat]

Pictures of the board... (the word "FLOOD" (which should appear to the right of the LabRat logo) got dropped from the Silkscreen somehow)

http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7258&stc=1&d=1281448633


With a MightyMini for size comparison. I intend to use it inside a porta-flood enclosure so I have more room to play with.


http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7257&stc=1&d=1281448622

Optional use with 5mm LED (standing tall)

http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7259&stc=1&d=1281448637


Optional use with 5mm LED (legs bent to new angles)

http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7260&stc=1&d=1281448642

[LightUp]

Hi, LabRat

Where do you, if I may ask, get your boards done? MPC in Nepean?
What is the individual LED current spec for your floods?

I had thought of making some floods in the future and like the RGB types.
Presently I'm building (slow process) my MDF CNC router - hope to make some pcbs some day.

[LabRat]

Are you another local?

I've been using SeeedStudio for my boards. If you can keep the size down, their prices are amazing. I spent a few hours last night re-working the PIX-C (or is it PIK-C.. I can never remember), in order send those off as well.

Learning to "wait patiently" for mail from HK (Hong Kong) is a necessary evil, but the end result sure feels good. I'm etching less, and waiting more. :)

Consider updating your profile so we know your general whereabouts. If close enough I'd love to see more of your CNC router.


Hi, LabRat

Where do you, if I may ask, get your boards done? MPC in Nepean?
What is the individual LED current spec for your floods?

I had thought of making some floods in the future and like the RGB types.
Presently I'm building (slow process) my MDF CNC router - hope to make some pcbs some day.

[LightUp]

Almost local.
I used to live in the Borden Farm area and moved south to Morrisburg a few years ago, after I retired from Nav Canada (yeh, retired lab rat from Hunt Club....).

I started a DMX design last year when I came across the "595" ic. Plan to build a dimmable 32 channels per unit to drive individual lights, rather than a 120VAC string. I bought enough parts to make 32 units (i.e. 1024 lights - but that project is on hold due to my CNC itch.... I had also started a handwired RPM USB-DMX dongle (prior to the current group buy) and used a Hammond aluminum case bought at Active on Merivale Rd. About 3/4 done - also on hold. They feel more like winter work.....:)

[LabRat]

Almost local.
I used to live in the Borden Farm area and moved south to Morrisburg a few years ago, after I retired from Nav Canada (yeh, retired lab rat from Hunt Club....).

I started a DMX design last year when I came across the "595" ic. Plan to build a dimmable 32 channels per unit to drive individual lights, rather than a 120VAC string. I bought enough parts to make 32 units (i.e. 1024 lights - but that project is on hold due to my CNC itch.... I had also started a handwired RPM USB-DMX dongle (prior to the current group buy) and used a Hammond aluminum case bought at Active on Merivale Rd. About 3/4 done - also on hold. They feel more like winter work.....:)

I've also created a very low cost Usb2Dmx adapter (with a Vixen plugin) and can make a version 1.0 PCB available to you if you want. The entire BOM is about $25.00 (includes a case).

[LightUp]

Thanks for the offer.
I have all the parts to build two of RPM's version using the UM245R module and the ATMEGA88 micro, but will use a 20MHZ xtal and update the firmware accordingly.

Does your version use the same parts as RPM's?

Secondly, what type of LED do you use for your flood? I'm looking for a part number to peruse the datasheet.

[LabRat]

My solution is based on a PIC (18F2455), so not compatible with the ENTEC method.

My LED's came from the group buy... can't for the life of me recall what the link is, but should be present somewhere in the "Mighty Mini LED group buy forum discussion" (or words to that effect).