Anyone able to test some LED strings?

[fj]

For a while now I've been trying to source some cheap LED's from overseas as they are just way too expensive here in AUS.

I have managed to get some samples from a Chinese manufacturer who was willing to deal with me and deal in small quantities.

They look like good quality but since I'm new to all of this I really don't know what to look for and I don't yet have the REN controllers to test them myself for misfires etc.

Would anyone in Aus be willing to take a look at them, test them on a controller and give me an honest appraisal of them for use in an outdoor display?

Here are the light specifications:

Voltage: 24V AC
# of LEDs: 100
Length: 10m
Bulb spacing: 10cm
IP rating: IP44

I ordered 4 strings - 1 white, 1 red, 1 green, 1 purple. The white and purple have 24V transformers with them and the other 2 have just bare wire ends for connecting directly up to the 24VAC SSR's. The strings seem to have rectifiers on them, I am guessing to make them full wave?

Prices I have been quoted are fairly reasonable - between $4.50 and $6.50 depending on colour (minus transformer, just bare end wires). Then there is shipping on top of that as well. I have been quoted shipping costs for delivery of 200 sets of about $450 via DHL. Quite pricey for shipping but add on the $2 or so to each string and they are still relatively cheap. All amounts are USD.

Please let me know if you are interested in testing for me? I'll send the lights to you and you can keep them as a gift for doing the testing.

Thanks, FJ

[christmas-light]

HI

Do you have some pictures ?? :D

[Wombat]

Hi FJ

I could do some testing for you. I have an Xmus REN 16 hooked up in a box with 24V transformer ready to test them. Could give you an appraisal of them send me a PM if you are interested.

Thanks
Wombat

[aussiephil]

FJ

i would be happy to test a string against a DC controller for you, to check suitability and performance with DC work.

I can test/measure light outputs as well

send a pm if your interested

Aussiephil

[aususer]

I can't test (just yet.. still building) but they seem pretty cheap..
if your putting an order in - let me know and I'd like to piggy-back on too for a handful of strings.

[fasteddy]

Just remember that you must keep the value below Aus$1000 (shipping not included) or else you will be up for import duties and that can cost.
Im looking into getting 120 metres of RGB SMD 5050 strip light from China for US$7.20 a metre IP68 and UV protected. Shipping is US$154.00.

[fj]

aussiephil, wombat - pm sent.

[fj]

HI

Do you have some pictures ?? :D

i'll take some pictures tonight and post them up for you to take a look at. i can only power up the white and purple as i don't have a controller yet or a power supply. the white ones are quite bright !!

[fj]

Just remember that you must keep the value below Aus$1000 (shipping not included) or else you will be up for import duties and that can cost.


hi fasteddy, thanks for the tip, i knew there was a limit but just wasn't sure what it was, now i do :)

i was planning on the minimum shipment first. when they sent the sample strings they put a value of $1 per string on them.if i end up oerdring, i'll ask them to put a reasonable amount on there to try to keep it below the $1000 mark.

[fj]

i've put some photos up as an album under my profile, available for everyone to view.

[fasteddy]

You really need to test these lights out under wet weather conditions to see how well they will stand up to a good aussie summer storm as some Chinese manufactures of light strings can have poor quality bonding.

[daviddth]

Good idea Fasteddy. Extremes of temp, water, UV radiation.... Sounds like the workout the LED Ropelights are getting on my shed at the moment, and they run every day I work in the shed for 3 to 5hrs as a test as well.

So far 1 LED ropelight has been put in the "Bin this garbage" pile, leaving 1 looking great (Santas LED Lights) and 1 reasonable (ebay).

[aussiephil]

You really need to test these lights out under wet weather conditions to see how well they will stand up to a good aussie summer storm as some Chinese manufactures of light strings can have poor quality bonding.

yep, we are actually getting some rain so not hard to organise :)

[christmas-light]

i've put some photos up as an album under my profile, available for everyone to view.

wow I would be happy to order form there :p

[fj]

hmmm...don't know if they'll stand up to being submerged in water. they aren't fully sealed like most rope lights are. the weather rating is IP44 which means:

Protection against entry of objects larger than 1.0 square mm

and

Protection from entry of water splashes or spray from any direction

from what i understand the first number in the rating is protection against objects (dust etc.) and the second number is the protection against water. to get submersion water proofing you would have to go to a 7 which they don't do.

they do up to a rating of IP64 which they say is there outdoor range but they come at a much higer cost (add another $3-4 per string) due to the increase in weatherproofing and they also have a rubber wire coating. these ones are PVC coated.

anyway, i'll post out the strings to wombat and aussiephil over the weekend and we'll see what they say once they've had a good look.

if everything checks out ok then i'll talk to the supplier about the best way too handle the possible influx of orders and let you all know the contact details.

[fj]

by the way, when they sent me the samples, they also sent me a catalog of all the other LED's they make. They also have:

strings chasing
strings static (which are the samples I got delivered)
curtains
netlights
icicles
round rope lights
flat rope light
neon rope light
motif lights
SMD strips


some of the english translations in the catalog is quite amusing. this is my favourite:

LED waterfall light can according to your think that the elephant attains the special features...

:)

[aussiephil]

fj - thanks it will be a pleasure.

All - regarding concerns over waterproofing, remember that all those 24v and 36v mini lights we use all time in the rain are not sealed and i personnally have not had any issues even in some very heavy rain.
LED's have had corrosion issues reported in the past and this is certainly worth testing for.

All this low voltage stuff we use has some advantages..... :)

Cheers
Aussiephil

[fasteddy]

hmmm...don't know if they'll stand up to being submerged in water. they aren't fully sealed like most rope lights are. the weather rating is IP44 which means:

Protection against entry of objects larger than 1.0 square mm

and

Protection from entry of water splashes or spray from any direction

from what i understand the first number in the rating is protection against objects (dust etc.) and the second number is the protection against water. to get submersion water proofing you would have to go to a 7 which they don't do.

they do up to a rating of IP64 which they say is there outdoor range but they come at a much higer cost (add another $3-4 per string) due to the increase in weatherproofing and they also have a rubber wire coating. these ones are PVC coated.

anyway, i'll post out the strings to wombat and aussiephil over the weekend and we'll see what they say once they've had a good look.

if everything checks out ok then i'll talk to the supplier about the best way too handle the possible influx of orders and let you all know the contact details.

The quickest and easiest way to test there ability to withstand a good storm is to throw them in the shower for an hour or so and see how they hold up, if they handle a shower then they will handle wet weather, if they dont it might be worth spending the extra on the IP64 or finding another supplier with better prices.

[fasteddy]

by the way, when they sent me the samples, they also sent me a catalog of all the other LED's they make. They also have:

strings chasing
strings static (which are the samples I got delivered)
curtains
netlights
icicles
round rope lights
flat rope light
neon rope light
motif lights
SMD strips


some of the english translations in the catalog is quite amusing. this is my favourite:

LED waterfall light can according to your think that the elephant attains the special features...

:)

I wouldnt mind a copy of thier catalog, any chance of you sending us a copy

[fj]

I wouldnt mind a copy of thier catalog, any chance of you sending us a copy

they only sent me one copy so i wouldn't mind holding on to that. i can scan it and make a pdf i guess. i'll see what i can do tomorrow about it.

cheers, fj

[jpb]

LED waterfall light can according to your think that the elephant attains the special features...

:)

That is just the effect that I wanted for this year. Put me down for 10.

[smartalec]

they only sent me one copy so i wouldn't mind holding on to that. i can scan it and make a pdf i guess. i'll see what i can do tomorrow about it.

cheers, fj
a pdf would be great, im surprised the dont actually have one online to save you the time of scanning the pages

[polar bear]

If your pdf'ing i would be interested please.:)

[WireWrap]

they only sent me one copy so i wouldn't mind holding on to that. i can scan it and make a pdf i guess. i'll see what i can do tomorrow about it.

cheers, fj

I'd love to get a copy of that catalog PDF myself...
It would surely provide the items I need to create a gorgeous display... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:



:)

[fj]

I'd love to get a copy of that catalog PDF myself...
It would surely provide the items I need to create a gorgeous display... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:



:)

sorry everyone, i've just been a bit busy lately and can't see it slowing up at all. i'm going to post the catalog out to someone else who will scan it up for you. will be a few more days yet.

[aussiephil]

fj

Hi, package arrived this morning, not long home and just had to play.

Initial impression is build quality is good.

Had to pull the little box apart that is on the cable, it contains a bridge rectifier so if you wish to run these from a AC SSR then they are full rectified.

The bridge is a KBP210 a 1000v 2A unit that is no doubt used across all their voltage options.

Powered up the pink/purple ones, what a great colour. That's as far as i have got, plan to measure voltages and count led's per section etc over the next few days.

As always Left to Right.
1. Bridge rectifier covered in what seems like some sort of hot melt glue.
2. Took quite some effort to cut away and lever this up so i could get a model number.
3. purple set powered up

if i was going to use these with the rectifier in place i would undo the four screws and just run a bead of silicon around and screw the cover back to ensure it's completely waterproof.

Cheers
Aussiephil

[aussiephil]

Quick update:
Both strings i have are 10 leds per section with one resistor per section, this is definately better than the Big W strings.
however....
The red string when set for 200mA (10x.020mA) had an DC input voltage of 26.4 before the rectifier bridge whilst the purple string at 200mA only needed 22.1v and is drawing 250mA at 24v

I'm keen to know what the green and blue strings work out at as theory say that for 10 leds they will need over 30v for 20mA/200mA, mmmm.....

Cheers
Aussiephil

[fj]

that was quick to get to you !!!

good news about the build quality, average news about the voltages.

looking forward to hearing more about your findings.


cheers, fj

[Wombat]

I received my Lights and have done some peliminary testing with them and so far the results are very good.

First Impressions are that the LEDS are well constructed and have built in resistors in the strings which I like.

Powering the string (White one) from my variable power supply the voltage range appears to be very good. I can run them from anywhere from about 10V up to 37V with no apparent danger of damage. However when running at lower than about 15V some of the LED's appear to dim substantially compared to others at a dropoff point. This may show up when run from the Ren16 outputs. I will endevour to setup the ren-16 over the weekend and run some dimming tests with them.

So far I am very impressed by them and would like to enquire how much they are as I may be interested in purchasing some later in the year.

If compare them to my current favorite LED's that I use being the Mort-bay FX superbrite series they compare very well. The brightness is very good and the Build quality is good. A little dissapointed in the rapid dimming of some of the led's below 15V but I will feedback more once I have hooked them up to the Ren-16

Thanks
Wombat

[fj]

So far I am very impressed by them and would like to enquire how much they are as I may be interested in purchasing some later in the year.

hi wombat,

i will post up contact details of the supplier and how much i was quoted tonight. aususer has just sent me the scanned catalog too so i'll post that up as well.

i just want to say a big thanks to yourself, aussiephil and aususer for helping me out on this !!

cheers, fj

[aususer]

i just want to say a big thanks to yourself, aussiephil and aususer for helping me out on this !!
Glad I could help.

[aussiephil]

fj

Hi, package arrived this morning, not long home and just had to play.

Initial impression is build quality is good.

Had to pull the little box apart that is on the cable, it contains a bridge rectifier so if you wish to run these from a AC SSR then they are full rectified.

The bridge is a KBP210 a 1000v 2A unit that is no doubt used across all their voltage options.

Powered up the pink/purple ones, what a great colour. That's as far as i have got, plan to measure voltages and count led's per section etc over the next few days.

As always Left to Right.
1. Bridge rectifier covered in what seems like some sort of hot melt glue.
2. Took quite some effort to cut away and lever this up so i could get a model number.
3. purple set powered up

if i was going to use these with the rectifier in place i would undo the four screws and just run a bead of silicon around and screw the cover back to ensure it's completely waterproof.

Cheers
Aussiephil

Here's what i have and think.

I had Purple and Red Strings

Both strings are 10 leds per section with 10 sections per string.
Resistors used for current limiting were different indicating thought went into forward voltage differences.
At 200mA per string...
Purple is visually not that bright and is backed up by LUX readings and has a very incandescant look.
Red is somewhat brighter visually (2x measured at the same total current)

At around 350mA (quite overdriven) both sets start to approach the brightness of the Big-W strings from last year, visually at least at the same voltage. The 120 count Big-W string was drawing less than 80mA though.

I have the purple string next to my custom RGB string and yes the RGB string blows it away for brightness but the purple string is not lost and would still look good in a display.

Fading is actually very smooth on the Tiger controller with a visual variance visible from DMX levels 10-225.

I haven't had a chance to throw them outside under rain yet but they look like they would be fine.

Dislikes:
One section of the purple string had a weird resistor value and is a little duller.
Significant difference (3v) between the strings for nominal 20mA/200mA current.
Only about half the visual brightness of a Big W string. This can be a positive if looking for a softer look.
The purple string is overdriven at 24v DC.
Removing the full wave bridge will make the overdrive issue even worse if you cut these into shorter sections

Conclusion:
Overall mechanical construction is good with decent wire and insulation thickness, however the poor resistor choices that lead to the differences in current /Vf indicates to me a desire to get it right but not keeping quality checks going all the time.

value wise - at $6-$8 a string they are not to bad, easy to work with, cuttable every ten leds and at least for full strings no polarity concerns, they also have a consistant spacing for the LED's.

If i was looking to buy more lights this year i would likely order some.

Hope this helps in some way.
Cheers
Aussiephil

[fj]

hi aussiephil,

thanks very much for your review, i really appreciate it.

is 200mA per string normal or acceptable? that means only 5 strings per amp and i thought LED's were much more efficient than that or am i getting this totally wrong?

i'll let them know about the different resistor used in one section of the purple string to make sure they are aware of it.

thanks, fj

[aussiephil]

hi aussiephil,

is 200mA per string normal or acceptable? that means only 5 strings per amp and i thought LED's were much more efficient than that or am i getting this totally wrong?

thanks, fj

Leds are more efficient, however for low voltage use the difference will be less than our friends in the USA see at 120v.

Each series section of leds should have a nominal 20mA of current..
So
12v = 3 leds is the normal regardless of colour
24v = 6 to 10 leds depending on Vf of the colours
110v = 35-50 again depending on Vf of the colours

Calculating nominal string current is as easy as counting the number of sections and multiplying by 20mA.
So for the ones you sent me they had 10 sections so 200mA is exactly expected.

A Big-W white string is also 10leds per section with 12 sections for nominal current of 240mA
A big-W red string as 15leds per section for 8 sections and a nominal current of 160mA.

Why do i use the word "nominal", because it is purely a calculated starting point. As all these strings either use resistors or have a higher Vf (more leds) than their rated voltage the ACTUAL current will need to be measured for you specific operating voltage.

As you could see when i ran the purple at my usual 27v they drew 350mA.

hope that made sense....
Cheers
Aussiephil