Getting PCB boards made?

[smartalec]

Hi All,
Just wondering where everyone gets there boards made an how much does it cost?
Thanks Alec.

[dirknerkle]

Tough question to answer because the pricing changes for:
* board size (larger is more expensive)
* 1-sided or 2-sided (2 is more expensive)
* Whether you will have a solder mask (a mask adds $)
* Whether you will have a silkscreen of parts location (silkscreen adds $)
* The quantity you order (high qty gets the per board price down)

If you go to www.futurlec.com you can use their "estimator" to calculate approximate pricing. ExpressPCB has a feature built into their software to calculate costs based on the design that's currently in its workspace.

What's amazing is working the dollars backward. If you buy a board for, say $10, you can work it backwards to calculate how much money the board provider spent out of his own pocket to have certain quantities made. You'll find that creating a stock of 50-100 boards available is a pretty healthy undertaking for even the smallest boards. That's why there's usually some sort of sampling made for "interest" in a certain board.

[Matt_Edwards]

rather a broad question.
I have used:
OurPCB.com
PCBcart.com
Futurlec.com.au's PCB Service
www.xjypcb.com

Pricing is very heavily dependant on size, quantity and to a lesser extent the technology.

the last controller I did was 55mx20m and came in at about US$0.6 each delivered.

[Matt_Edwards]

Ditto Dirk. he beat me to.

[ukewarrior]

Matt,

who is the best price wise if you don't care about delivery timeframes?


rather a broad question.
I have used:
OurPCB.com
PCBcart.com
Futurlec.com.au's PCB Service
www.xjypcb.com

Pricing is very heavily dependant on size, quantity and to a lesser extent the technology.

the last controller I did was 55mx20m and came in at about US$0.6 each delivered.

[LabRat]

rather a broad question.
I have used:
OurPCB.com
PCBcart.com
Futurlec.com.au's PCB Service
www.xjypcb.com

Pricing is very heavily dependant on size, quantity and to a lesser extent the technology.

the last controller I did was 55mx20m and came in at about US$0.6 each delivered.

I trust that was mm... not m .. or you got one HECK of a bargain!! ;)

[Matt_Edwards]

mm it is.

Best price wise has been www.xjypcb.com
But I have used PCBCart the most as they make it real simple to reorder design on-line and their price is usually not far of the mark.

[Entropy]

Partly depends on board size.

For example, I've kind of held off on doing the board order for my I2C project because the only vendor that has decent per-board pricing for tiny boards like that (read: free depanelization and sane depanelization policies) has a rather wacky order process that involves faxing things back and forth - I don't have a fax machine!

If you're looking for small quantities of moderate sized boards AND you are producing an "open source" design, seeed studio has a decent PCB production service.

[dirknerkle]

mm it is.

Best price wise has been www.xjypcb.com

I've been to their site but I can never find anything out about pricing, how to order, etc. Is there some hidden button/hot section of their site that you have to hit to see anything other than generic pictures of some of their product?

[n1ist]

For years, I used ExpressPCB, but got frustrated with the additional cost for Gerbers, lack of DRC in their software, and the difficulty of placing traces on the inner planes. Lately, I have been using GoldPhoenix ($99 for 155 square inches, delivered). I have used SparkFun's BatchPCB service for small prototypes, but they get expensive quickly ($2.50 per square inch + $10 per order + shipping).

I just placed an order with PCBGeek ($89 for 200 sq inches delivered) for my soldering kit coop over on DLA; we will see how they work out.

These are all for double sided, green mask, white silkscreen on one side. I have also used Gold Phoenix for some 4 and 6 layer and thin (0.24" thick) boards too, with good luck.

/mike

[David_AVD]

I used PCB Cart (China) recently for runs of 500. Price was good. Quality was not quite as nice as my other supplier, but perfectly acceptable. Even for smaller quantities the prices weren't too bad for what you get.

[cenote]

Hey alec, as everybody else has said, quantity and size makes a huge difference. If your looking at only one or two, is Home Etching a Possibility? I am sure there is some friends down under that could help you.

[smartalec]

Hey alec, as everybody else has said, quantity and size makes a huge difference. If your looking at only one or two, is Home Etching a Possibility? I am sure there is some friends down under that could help you.
I did think of doing that, but with fine tracks an double sided. Also Schools wont even teach it in schools here cause of the chemical risk.

i did get one quote,(cant remember place) but they were wanting like $200-$400 Aussie dollars. :roll:

i think i might need to do more hunting.. otherwise i think my projects will stay to breadboards or them solder-able breadboards.

[Matt_Edwards]

I've been to their site but I can never find anything out about pricing, how to order, etc. Is there some hidden button/hot section of their site that you have to hit to see anything other than generic pictures of some of their product?
That is right. you have to ask for a quotation. Jucy was very helpful, they end up sending me photos of the process and finished product before I paid them.

[smartalec]

Looks like i might have to learn how to home etch.
is it possable to do 2 sided boards.. or are single sided with wire links easer.

Now whats the best Acid's an ways of going about this home etching stuff.
did it in school over 15yrs ago.. forgot alot since then..lol

thanks

ps. i only thought it would cost like $50 to get a board made, gee was i wrong there..lol

[Matt_Edwards]

check the links on these posts (http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7634) You may find them helpful

[LabRat]

Looks like i might have to learn how to home etch.
is it possable to do 2 sided boards.. or are single sided with wire links easer.

Now whats the best Acid's an ways of going about this home etching stuff.
did it in school over 15yrs ago.. forgot alot since then..lol

thanks

ps. i only thought it would cost like $50 to get a board made, gee was i wrong there..lol

I've had a pair of small boards made up through the BatchPCB. As I recall I paid about 70.00 $US with shipping included (for a pair of boards). It was more for the experience than anything else.

The board wasn't blinky flashy related, but is acting as a basis for my current work on trying to create a PIC based USB to DMX adapter. (It's a huge "ramp up" learning C# at the same time as UBS protocols, but I'm making steady progress. I'm going to have to get a REAL DMX device soon, to test this against).

[dirknerkle]

Looks like i might have to learn how to home etch.
is it possable to do 2 sided boards.. or are single sided with wire links easer.

Now whats the best Acid's an ways of going about this home etching stuff.
did it in school over 15yrs ago.. forgot alot since then..lol

thanks

ps. i only thought it would cost like $50 to get a board made, gee was i wrong there..lol

ExpressPCB has a deal where you can get three, 2-sided boards for $51 as long as the boards are 3.8" x 2.5" in size. Great way to prototype a design.

Etching your own 2-sided boards isn't impossible, but it's not for a first-timer.

Etching your own single-sided boards is actually not very hard to do, but getting excellent results takes, like any new skill, some practice to refine your technique. The first ones you do are usually pretty skuzzy. But you'll get better at it with every try.

The home-etch Grinch board is an example of using top wires (e.g. cat5 gauge) to connect at various points to bottom etches, and it works very well.

[Matt_Edwards]

Smartalec,
Another thing to consider, if you just want one or two prototypes, you can re-lay out your design as a single layer board.
there are a couple of caveats:

No RF section requiring solid Ground plane
No high current switch paths
No layout critical sections required ground planes or high density tracks
Generally No Quad pack SMD devices

there may be others but this is all I can think of at present.

One obvious down side may be an increase in overall the size somewhat - will this be a problem?

If you intend to have a design that you can use latter to share with others, then there may be an need to tighten up your design, latter after you prove your prototypes.

[RPM]

That is right. you have to ask for a quotation. Jucy was very helpful, they end up sending me photos of the process and finished product before I paid them.

How is the quality of the boards they made for you?

[Matt_Edwards]

How is the quality of the boards they made for you?

Excellent. The Silk Screen as are not misaligned and the the routing is spot on on all boards. I have these issues on boards from PCBCard and OurPCB usually not enough to send them back but still noticeable.

[jeffl]

Excellent. The Silk Screen as are not misaligned and the the routing is spot on on all boards. I have these issues on boards from PCBCard and OurPCB usually not enough to send them back but still noticeable.

I'm having trouble following the thread. What site are you referring to?

[Jrd]

I believe Matt is referring to http://www.xjypcb.com/en/index1.asp. When in doubt follow the links in the quotations.

[xjypcb]

Hello everyone, I am Jucy from XJYPCB. Thanks so much for Matt for introduce me to all of you.Thanks very much.

My company is XJYPCB, if any of you need PCB you can gerber file to me for a quotation first.

Our website will be build a new. the online order will be added. At this moment if you need repeat your order you can send email to me and let me know your gerber file name then i will know which item i should arrange produce. Any inconvenient take to you hope you can understand.

if you have any question welcome to send email to me sales-jucy@xjypcb.cn

Jucy zhao

Sales department of Shenzhen Xinjiaye Electronics Technology Co.,Ltd
Tel:86-755-21638080 ext601 Fax:86-755-21638035
Cellphone:86-15012934497
Email: sales-jucy@xjypcb.cn skype: sales_jucy
MSN: sales_xjy@hotmail.com
www.xjypcb.cn www.xjypcb.com

Hope i can be your long term business partner.

[smartalec]

I've already done a quote from these guys, an the pricing is the best ive seen.
i know where to go, when i polish up my circuit a bit more.
haven't seem any pic's of his work tho.
i liked the fact that the boards are only about $1.60 each (after setup costs) up too 20-40 he reckons in one postal bag.
setup cost's are around the $100 mark, so im making sure my circuit is working perfect.
(the prototype is on breadboard an has been working great for a week now).
:grin:

[Matt_Edwards]

Here are some of the ones I was sent. I thought it was pretty cool.

[smartalec]

Here are some of the ones I was sent. I thought it was pretty cool.

they look good enouth to me. thanks matt

[fathead45]

wow, its cool to have a pcb vendor on here. i guess if i ever need anything made ill have to send yo a message.

[xjypcb]

There is so hot.
you are all interested in pcb? I am so glad to see it.

The matt's pics pcb is made by my factory.Any of you need pcb welcome to contact with me .

Many thanks for Matt.

[smartalec]

well we all have idea's an from that turns into testing, then from that you ask everyone else there thoughts, then you fix up your board design.
an hopefully if there's anouth interest, you get to bulk order your boards an share the total cost with other members here.

it Seems Gerber files can be hard to transform into, still trying to learn the video on youtube about eagle software.

[RPM]

well we all have idea's an from that turns into testing, then from that you ask everyone else there thoughts, then you fix up your board design.
an hopefully if there's anouth interest, you get to bulk order your boards an share the total cost with other members here.

it Seems Gerber files can be hard to transform into, still trying to learn the video on youtube about eagle software.

Here's some instructions I found some time ago for creating Gerbers in Eagle.
_______________________________________________

Creating Gerber files from EaglePCB for sending for manufacture.

1. Design the PCB, obviously... Run both ERC and DRC with parameters as defined by your manufacturer.

2. Create the drill rack using 'File' -> 'run' -> 'drillcfg.ulp'. Select 'mm' for the dimensions and click OK.

3. Create the Excellon drill data files. Open the 'CAM processor' window and select File/Open/Job and Excellon . Click the 'process job' button to create the drill data.

4. File/Open/Job/ 'gerb274X.cam' job in the 'CAM processor'. Verify that the correct layers are selected for output (go through each of the 5 tabs)
***** The 'mirror' option should be deselected on all layers! **** Click 'process job'.

5. Verify the generated files using a Gerber file viewer.

The output file formats are:
*.drl = drill list
*.drd = drill data, location of the drill holes
*.cmp = component side metal
*.sol = solder side metal
*.stc = mask stop for component side
*.sts = mask stop for solder side
*.plc = silkscreen for component side.