stand alone Renard card code?

[stenersonj]

seems to me it should be possible for a Renard 16, for example, to run standalone (with no computer and without music) and control a simple animated display such as santa throwing a snowball.

has anyone done this and are you willing to share some sample code on how it was done?

[dirknerkle]

Theoretically, yes, but the Renard only reacts to input. It doesn't have a way to store a sequence of serial data and re-inject it into itself over and over. I think Phil's code is so tight that the timing of effects is affected by clock cycles within the PIC itself, and whether the PIC has enough room leftover for (a) storing a sequence and (b) extra code to loop into the stored sequence to read it are two other issues.

It's a decent idea, but I suspect the code would have to take on a serious revision to make it effective.

[ukewarrior]

I still think the best platform to build one of these wireframe animation controllers upon is an Arduino. A complete unit can be DIYed for under $20.
The programming tools are awesome and easy to use for a newbie.
There is a TON of help available with online communities. Couple an IO pin from the arduino to a 'standard' SSR port and you'd be off to the races.
If no one beats me to it, I'll get this done during the off season this year and share.


seems to me it should be possible for a Renard 16, for example, to run standalone (with no computer and without music) and control a simple animated display such as santa throwing a snowball.

has anyone done this and are you willing to share some sample code on how it was done?

[ranger_391xt]

looks like someone has worked on developing a 4 channel shield for the Arduino... Looks interesting...haven't read all the posts tho.

http://www.arduino.cc/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1236998971/0

[wjohn]

We already have a standalone controller for DMX working,

the board is based on a ATMEL 2313, and has preprogrammed sequences for 30 channels.

I am using it with my PIXELs in garden lights, and have blinky blink 12 months a year.

[ukewarrior]

Where is that info????


We already have a standalone controller for DMX working,

the board is based on a ATMEL 2313, and has preprogrammed sequences for 30 channels.

I am using it with my PIXELs in garden lights, and have blinky blink 12 months a year.

[wjohn]

It was a local project Downunder last year. A number of people have seen the board and it working at my place.

The basic design is fairly easy

5/12V power supply
Controller board based on ATMEL 2313,
RS485 IC for DMX comms Out
Power injector for PIXEL interface.
10 JEC PIXELS with DMX addresses starting a 1, 4, 7 .....
a Sequence selection button that allows the user to cycle thru 1 of x pre-set sequences.

Has it been published? No, could it be, yes.

The Helix system is the BMW solution for standalone controllers, this is very much the lower tech soln (read Daewoo). The sequences are hard coded into the ATMEL, the addresses are also hard coded. The code is not optimised.

The board is about 1.5 x 3, and the whole solution fits into a CG-1000 case with power supply.

The next enhancement is to add a radio dongle to allow remote setting of the sequence. Saves me walking outside to push a button and walk back inside.

[budude]

Someone on here posted a Renard tester that would send sequences to a controller to test the lights. Seems like that could be modified into a stored sequence driver (maybe add an SD card interface?) and drive a run-of-the-mill Renard controller(s). That way you could reuse the controller for other times.

[kychristmas]

seems to me it should be possible for a Renard 16, for example, to run standalone (with no computer and without music) and control a simple animated display such as santa throwing a snowball.

has anyone done this and are you willing to share some sample code on how it was done?

Wireframes are going to be a big focus for me this year. I have been instructed to make the display more fun for KIDS. A standalone controller will be one of my first projects when things settle down. I have found a few example of PIC- based controller projects where a Simple" Sequence is hard-coded and compiled in as an include file. I'm very Green at the PIC stuff, but my hope is to use a stripped down Ren8SS as the base for one. Should be able to build the controller for less than $20 since there will be no need for COM Ports (RJ45s or DB9), 485 Chip, or Crystal.

When I get my display down (temps going up this weekend) and packed up, I will be ordering some boards from wayne to start playing around.

[stenersonj]

thanks for all the input. many years ago i used to teach a basic course on microprocessors. its been years however. but seems like it should be easy to use a Renard 8 to do 8 channels. basically initialize the chip to configure it and then have loops and time delays with the sequence outputs sent at the right times.

i have not worked with the Renard yet although i ordered parts for a ss16. i also looked at the website for the microcontroller and downloaded some free programming software and it is incredibly easy to work with. basically program in a flow diagram. i also ordered a evaluation kit from them.

i dont think 8 will be very difficult (i could of course be wrong).

i would like to see 16. that may be a little more difficult. i am not sure how to make the two microcontrollers work together on the board. i sure do think it would be slick to be able to use a Renard 16 to standalone control 16. could make a very nice animated sequence.

[kychristmas]

Yeah, I think the 16 Channels would make it exponentially more difficult. Especially using the Renard as a basis. I would rather focus on using 8 channels. That would likely drive multiple simple wireframes or one bigger complicated one's.

Also, with a wireframe, I figure 8 Channel means 9, since there's always something that's on full time. While I would like to have it, dimming is not something I'm currently concerned with.

Kelly

[dirknerkle]

You know, some of these flash-memory netbook PCs might have some pretty decent application for something like this. They're almost getting cheap enough ($<200) where you could put 4 or 5 of them out in the displays, connect them via ethernet to your home network, using VNC or other remote tool to configure or change them as necessary. The idea came to me as I was comparing some of the postings in this thread with some of those in the Helix threads, and looking at my own company's POS software design.

There's plenty of flash memory available on one of those netbooks for a copy of Vixen and all your sequences (and even MP3s, although there'd be no real need for them), and it isn't hard to build an agent that would run on each one that would run upon bootup, synchronize each netbook's clock to your master and periodically sample a central data area on your home network for an individualized trigger file for each netbook that would start a certain sequence. In a way, it'd be very similar to Greg's Helix system, although running on netbooks instead.

In the end, it might be a whole lot easier than trying to design a new "mini-computer system" to do what a cheap PC can already do through software... just a thought... only thing to figure out is how to climatize the netbook for weather issues.

[kychristmas]

dirk,
For me, I'm looking for a basic standalone wireframe controller to do basic Wireframe-style animations, not an entire standalone controller system. I believe that's what StenersonJ is looking for as well.

I think what I want could actually be done with a 555 Timer setup, but I figured a PIC-based controller setup would get it into a psuedo software control.

Kelly

[n1ist]

The alternative is a small board that has a micro and either on-board eeprom or an SD card, and outputs Renard protocol data to drive regular cards.
/mike

[budude]

The alternative is a small board that has a micro and either on-board eeprom or an SD card, and outputs Renard protocol data to drive regular cards.
/mike

That is kind of what I suggested previously - I found the link here: http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8146

Just thinking with some modifications (drop the LCD and buttons for instance) that it could do what you need. PICs are cheap so I can't imagine this costing more than $10 with canned sequences and a bit more with SD access (plus all the coding necessary...).

[stenersonj]

KJBURNS31 said it better than i did, thanks

"a basic standalone wireframe controller to do basic Wireframe-style animations, not an entire standalone controller system."

i really like the idea of the Renard SS8 and or 16.

as soon as i can, i am going to begin experimenting.

[budude]

Would what I suggested not meet your needs? I picture a small board with an RJ45 jack that plugs into a standard controller in the same enclosure making it a complete self-playing controller. It would be like Dirk's Ren-W but instead be a sequence generator requiring no external bits to run it. There would be no audio of course which simplifies things a bit.

[kychristmas]

Would what I suggested not meet your needs? I picture a small board with an RJ45 jack that plugs into a standard controller in the same enclosure making it a complete self-playing controller. It would be like Dirk's Ren-W but instead be a sequence generator requiring no external bits to run it. There would be no audio of course which simplifies things a bit.

I definitely think yours and N1st's ideas would work, but its more complicated than I want. Like commercial Wireframes, I envision a Wireframe with a controller mounted in a small enclosure directly to it. The only thing coming from it would be a single power cord.

Kelly

[RavingLunatic]

KJBURNS31 said it better than i did, thanks

"a basic standalone wireframe controller to do basic Wireframe-style animations, not an entire standalone controller system."

i really like the idea of the Renard SS8 and or 16.

as soon as i can, i am going to begin experimenting.

It seems that everyone seems to keep trying to make this more difficult than your or Kelly want it to be.

The simple answer is yes you can do it. You just need to write some new code for your PIC16F688 (on the Ren board) to run your "simple" animations. It would just run constantly once power was applied and until power was removed.

It would go basically like:

Turn on/off desired channels
loop for certain amount of time
Turn on/off channels for next movement
loop for certain amount of time
and so on for all your movements and then repeat entire routine


Sitting here thinking, I would probably build the wireframe first and then work on the code so you can tweek the timing to your satisfaction.

[ukewarrior]

My take on this is to use the SSRs that everyone already knows and has to drive the AC part of this.
I agree that the controller would be small and attach directly to the Wireframe.

I also think that the controller would automatically run when IT was powered-up. This would allow you to turn the wireframe animation on and off with a single Vixen channel.

I still plan to build an Arduindo based version of this. It's super small and can run its program automatically when power is applied.



I definitely think yours and N1st's ideas would work, but its more complicated than I want. Like commercial Wireframes, I envision a Wireframe with a controller mounted in a small enclosure directly to it. The only thing coming from it would be a single power cord.

Kelly

[budude]

hmm - - that is exactly what I pointed to? The link above uses a 16F688 PIC to generate Renard streams out of the jack... It should not take much to modify the code to run through a set of streams to a connected Renard controller. There would be no connections to the outside except a single power cord going into the box. Obviously there would be power cords coming out to the lights but you could hardwire those as well... dunno - - seems like everything is there that you asked for?

sorry for beating the horse.

[dj merritt]

I come across this maybe someone can figure out how to diy so we could make them cheaper for ourself. This one seems to have a speed adjustment. http://www.holidays-galore.com/item-detail.asp?part=LLD-4c&category=Accessories

[MrBigPooh]

Just as an idea...........................

Would it not be easier to use a 555 (or even a 4093), a 4017, and a npn transistor array (or modify the SSRs to positive switching)? You could have an (almost) unlimited number of channels just by adding more 4017's, and not have to worry about programing. What you are basically asking for is a chaser circuit.

Of course "easier" is in the eye of the beholder ;) , but Google would be your best friend here. There are many (MANY) chaser circuits on the internet and modifying one of them would be a fairly easy thing to do. Instead of a printed circuit board you could use a perfboard and direct wiring since the circuits are so simple.

Then again, I could be talking out of my :oops: ,err..... HAT.

[ukewarrior]

I was going to make one of these myself, but this one is only $12.20 !!

Does anyone have this and can share how well it works?

Scroll down the page, it's the next to last item for sale.

http://www.valsleds.com/wire_frame_sculpture.htm

[ranger_391xt]

I come across this maybe someone can figure out how to diy so we could make them cheaper for ourself. This one seems to have a speed adjustment. http://www.holidays-galore.com/item-detail.asp?part=LLD-4c&category=Accessories

I went thru two of those, but thankfully didn't pay $50 ea. Noveltylights.com used to carry them for $20 ea. The last one that croaked I opened up. It used SCR's on each channel instead of TRIACs. If memory serves, I also think it used a 4017, but I don't recall much else.

Chris

[stenersonj]

i cannot get any response from the website that had the $12 4 output sequencing controllers.

anybody know abything about them or how to contact them? i used their contact on the webpage twice and did not get any reply.

[rdartist]

If you are refering to valsleds.com in ukewarrior's post,
they are now called Christmas-LEDs.com
Mailing Address: Supertec Novelties, LLC
208 Madison Street
Walworth, Wisconsin 53184
Phone: 262.949.2425
Fax: 262.275.5614
Web: www.Christmas-LEDs.com

[mmulvenna]

I went thru two of those, but thankfully didn't pay $50 ea. Noveltylights.com used to carry them for $20 ea. The last one that croaked I opened up. It used SCR's on each channel instead of TRIACs. If memory serves, I also think it used a 4017, but I don't recall much else.

Chris

I also went thru a few of these from Noveltylights.com. They told me they dropped them because the units were not reliable.

[stenersonj]

i did note that they had changed their website and i tried their email twice on this link

www.Christmas-LEDs.com


no response.

[stenersonj]

for anyone who may be interested i finished writing code for the SS16 that can make it a standlone controller. it could be used to control a wireframe or something sequential. it can have many steps and can control up to 16 outputs.

i could not have accomplished it without help from P.Short. h He was very helpful in helping me troubleshoot the code for the serial communication.

i will work on making it cleaner and more user friendly now. i wrote it in MPLAB - C. there are two seperate prorgams - one for each PIC. Only one would have to be modified to put the sequence of ones and zeroes for each step.

[kychristmas]

for anyone who may be interested i finished writing code for the SS16 that can make it a standlone controller. it could be used to control a wireframe or something sequential. it can have many steps and can control up to 16 outputs.

i could not have accomplished it without help from P.Short. h He was very helpful in helping me troubleshoot the code for the serial communication.

i will work on making it cleaner and more user friendly now. i wrote it in MPLAB - C. there are two seperate prorgams - one for each PIC. Only one would have to be modified to put the sequence of ones and zeroes for each step.

Yes, by all means, please post in the code section of the files area. Looking forward to checking it out.

Kelly

[stenersonj]

i would like to clean it up and document it thoroughly first. it should work fine with an SS8 or SS16, with minor changes i think it could work on the bigger renards also.

we are going to be building some wireframes and using the SS 16s to control them without a computer.

[scorpia]

Did this end up getting posted somewhere?

I would like to see this and possibly modify it to work with the simple 15/24 boards im working on,

[P. Short]

A bit off-topic...

But I'm somewhat intrigued by the idea of a Renard record-playback device. What I'm thinking of here is a small PIC and a big serial memory (like the ST25VF032-series parts)... Of course, the problem here is avoiding feature creep (like adding a RTC, and then an LCD, and then maybe an interface to a VMUSIC2). You would create a sequence in Vixen, then play that sequence out a serial port (just like you were driving the real display). This little device would record this serial data in the serial EEPROM, then play it back later. Perhaps one track could be used for control functions, like telling the playback device where the end of the sequence is.

Another possibility (besides the Arduino mentioned earlier) would be to use a PICAXE for controlling the standalone...this may be even easier to program than the Arduino, I'm not sure.

[dmcole]

Another possibility (besides the Arduino mentioned earlier) would be to use a PICAXE for controlling the standalone...this may be even easier to program than the Arduino, I'm not sure.

FWIW, I've done Picaxe code and I've done Arduino code -- Picaxe is more like Basic, while Arduino is more like C. So "easier" would be relative depending upon your coding background.

I know for a fact that the Picaxe just doesn't have enough "oomph" (technical term there, meaning the influence of the inefficiency of the compiled Basic code into assembly coupled with the 16mHz top speed of the chips) to do high-speed serial communications like, say, 250k bps, which is what we need around here.

I have now exhausted my entire knowledge of Picaxe.

\dmc

[P. Short]

I wasn't assuming that DMX is a requirement. With a small PIC (PIC12F5 or PIC12F6 series) it is conceivable to be able to transmit DMX packets, though, even if the CPU is only clocked at 4MHz.

As for the PICAXE suggestion, I was thinking of Renard non-DMX, especially since there isn't any DMX firmware out for the Simple16/24 boards that Peter was referring to.

This standalone capability would also be useful for the Renard-servo designs that someone has mentioned for prop use at Halloween time.

[dmcole]

I wasn't assuming that DMX is a requirement.

I wasn't either -- just used that as a baseline to give you an idea on throughput.

\dmc

[P. Short]

Still horribly off-topic, but here is the almost completed design for a little PCB for a bare-bones standalone controller. The board as shown is 1" x 1.8", surface-mount design.

The PIC (in the middle) is a PIC12F510, the bottom IC is a 75176 RS485 transceiver, and the IC on the top is a SST25VF032. The 8-pin connector in the middle is for a VMUSIC2, and the 6-pin connector is for programming the PIC. I still need to add another 2-pin jumper connector for selecting between record and playback modes.

The board has two different functions, selected by using different PIC programs. The first program is the record-playback controller, where the board records a Renard stream that has been transmitted by Vixen, stores the information in the EEPROM, and plays it back later. The 2-pin jumper that I mentioned above is used to select between the record and playback functions. In playback mode the controller simply plays back the recorded sequence over and over, using one Vixen channel as the end-of-sequence marker. This mode does not make any use of the vmusic2 interface.

The second program omits the record function and uses the vmusic2 interface instead. It copies a light sequence program from the USB flash drive connected to the vmusic2 into the on-board EEPROM. It then commands the vmusic2 to play an mp3 clip that has been stored in the vmusic2's flash drive, while simultaneously reading from the EEPROM and sending light-control commands down the RS485 line to a Renard controller.

There is no real-time-controller function on this board to control when playback starts, it simply plays back whenever power is applied (unless it is in record mode). This is something that I think would be useful for simple (or complex) chase controllers and the like, as well as perhaps simple prop controllers (using the Renard servo controller or perhaps a DMX512-based prop). The board could support three possible transmit baud rates (19200-Renard, 38400-Renard, and 250000-DMX512) and two receive baud rates (19200-Renard and 38400-Renard).

[bnradams]

I like your Idea P Short, would love to see the finished product. Ive played with an Arduino sending out Renard stream with the entention of adding a memory card to store the data. But I like your idea of being able to record a stream and play it back. Here is a rough early draft of the arduino code I used:


void setup() {
Serial.begin(57600); // opens serial port, sets data rate to 57600 bps
}

void loop() {
int incomingByte = 0;
char buffer[32];

if (Serial.available()>0){

//consume incoming data
incomingByte = Serial.read();

//dim channel one up
for (int x = 0; x < 255; x++){

//skip reserved characters
if (x == 125) {x = 128;}

//build serial string
sprintf(buffer,"%c%c%c", 126,128,x);
Serial.println(buffer);
delay(10);
}
//dim channel one down
for (int x = 255; x > 0; x--){

//skip reserved characters
if (x == 127) {x = 124;}

//build serial string to output
sprintf(buffer,"%c%c%c", 126,128,x);
Serial.println(buffer);
delay(10);
}
}
}


Originally thought of using the Arduino serial input/output as my RS232 to RS484 converter, RS232 into Arduino and serial out to MAX485 chip on development board to give RS484 to Renard. And when serial was available from PC just pass it through, if PC wasnt putting out anything, auto switch to memory card.

[DennyMo]

for anyone who may be interested i finished writing code for the SS16 that can make it a standlone controller. it could be used to control a wireframe or something sequential. it can have many steps and can control up to 16 outputs.

i could not have accomplished it without help from P.Short. h He was very helpful in helping me troubleshoot the code for the serial communication.

i will work on making it cleaner and more user friendly now. i wrote it in MPLAB - C. there are two seperate prorgams - one for each PIC. Only one would have to be modified to put the sequence of ones and zeroes for each step.
Sorry for the thread-necro, but did this ever get posted? I'm interested in a stand-alone controller with blinky/fading (8-channels or more) for a couple projects, and would love to mooch off of somebody else's success. :) Thanks.

[latntekky]

same here.. id like to standalone a SS8 or SS16 please